João Almeida - Bota Lume

[carolina]

I'm curious to see if they let Almeida do his own race from now on.

 

[groogster]

After today it starts to show that Remco doesn’t have the legs, monday will be much worse...
Didn’t understand the need today for calling for Almeida. They were less that 2k from the finish and At that point every rider must climb for himself with those gradients. Maybe a show of power over Almeida.
ATM without having to pull Remco Almeida would be just behind Foss and fighting for a Top10. Today he would arrive with Ciccone, Caruso and Dan Martin

Joao looks stronger then Remco at this point. To bad that stage 4

 

[groogster]

I'm curious to see if they let Almeida do his own race from now on.

No they won’t he’ll have to pull Remco in stage 16

 

[Bonimenier]

No they won’t he’ll have to pull Remco in stage 16

Seems like Evenepoel just told the press otherwise.

 

[Lefebre]

I hope he can help Remco next week

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

"Ik verlies tijd, maar ik sta nog mooi in de top 10. Daar probeer ik elke dag voor te vechten, maar de jongens moeten zich niet echt meer met mij bezighouden."
"Iemand als Joao (Almeida) mag mee in een vlucht voor een rit proberen te gaan."

"I'm losing time, but i'm still neatly in the top 10. I'll try to fight for that every day, but the boys (teammates) really don't have to concern themselves with me anymore. Someone like João could go in the break and try to go for a stagewin."

 

[groogster]

"I'm losing time, but i'm still neatly in the top 10. I'll try to fight for that every day, but the boys (teammates) really don't have to concern themselves with me. Someone like João could go in the break and try to go for a stagewin."

Strange statement just minutes after calling for João to wait for him in the last 2k of the stage but that’s ok.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Strange statement just minutes after calling for João to wait for him in the last 2k of the stage but that’s ok.

Why? He couldn't predict just how much time he would lose. And you don't know what he said in the radio. Maybe he said not to wait, but the teamcar disagreed.

 

[Bonimenier]

Why? He couldn't predict just how much time he would lose. And you don't know what he said in the radio. Maybe he said not to wait, but the teamcar disagreed.

It really looked that way though. You saw him talking on his comms and not 3s later Almeida was full breaking already.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It really looked that way though. You saw him talking on his comms and not 3s later Almeida was full breaking already.

If the orders came from the team car, how long would they wait? It would all happen at that moment. Either scenario is possible but we don't know. Most important thing for João is that he is cut free.

 

[Panda Claws]

Strange statement just minutes after calling for João to wait for him in the last 2k of the stage but that’s ok.

Why? There was almost no benefit from letting Almeida stay ahead. There was no stage win to fight over and Almeida's GC chances have been ruined since the first hilly stage. Almeida helping Evenepoel there could however be crucial in helping the latter secure a top-10 finish.

Almeida's chance for personal glory is now to get a stage victory and helping Evenepoel cut the losses on Zoncolan does not interfere with that.

Perhaps in hindsight we will say that Almeida would have finished above Evenepoel in GC if he didn't have to help him but even then Almeida was unlikely to do more than narrowly make the top-10. He simply lost too much time early.

 

[groogster]

Why? He couldn't predict just how much time he would lose. And you don't know what he said in the radio. Maybe he said not to wait, but the teamcar disagreed.

Whatever the case is, Car or Remco in that section with such a steep climb until the finish line it doesn’t make any sense as you know it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Whatever the case is, Car or Remco in that section with such a steep climb until the finish line it doesn’t make any sense as you know it.

No, it does make sense, because nobody could foresee how much time would be lost. And honestly, Almeida might have finished along with Vlasov or Carthy, so what? He would have been 8 minutes down in GC instead of 8m30s.

 

[groogster]

No, it does make sense, because nobody could foresee how much time would be lost. And honestly, Almeida might have finished along with Vlasov or Carthy, so what? He would have been 8 minutes down in GC instead of 8m30s.
[/QUOTE ]

It doesn’t matter, if you cannot understand that at that section of the climbing with that gradient there’s nothing that anyone can do for other teammate then stay with your opinion. Remco would lose exactly the same time if Joao didn’t wait for him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It doesn’t matter, if you cannot understand that at that section of the climbing with that gradient there’s nothing that anyone can do for other teammate then stay with your opinion. Remco would lose exactly the same time if Joao didn’t wait for him.

If you don't have the power, you can't push the watts. That's true. But there is also a mental aspect to having a teammate by your side. Considering there was not really anything to be gained for Almeida, other than a few seconds in search of gaining a spot in GC to 13th, yes it does make sense. But it doesn't matter if you don't understand.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Based on Zoncolan performance i would say the team did made a mistake calling back Almeida. When Evenepoel has struggled on gravel. Almeida should not be blamed for initially opposing that idea. Likely the decision was not based on ego but a decision made on insight.

In the end the team should know in what shape their GC riders are in. Evenepoel is losing a bit on gravel and a bit on climbing and a bit on punchy finishes ... Almeida was more or less always a notch ahead, minus the stage 4. They just bet everything on Evenepoel and it backfired.

Another thing to consider is Almeida is likely leaving this team and maybe not on all that good terms. With Evenepoel they will for sure have future GT ambitions and when you have GT ambitions you need a rider like Almeida in your team. Who are they going to sign instead, to take that role?

Evenepoel and Almeida performance on this Giro is still rather good. But as a team they failed.

 

[limak_]

If you don't have the power, you can't push the watts. That's true. But there is also a mental aspect to having a teammate by your side. Considering there was not really anything to be gained for Almeida, other than a few seconds in search of gaining a spot in GC to 13th, yes it does make sense. But it doesn't matter if you don't understand.

No doubt, Almeida is at the moment stronger than Remco in every aspect (ok, in TT they may be equal). I'm willing to say that it's Almeida who'll be DQS's highest placed guy in GC at the end of the race, as I expect Remco only loosing more and more time on the mountain stages. Then if we consider that GC is the only DQS's goal for this Giro (top 10 in GC wow), how can you say that few seconds that could've been gained by Almieda is nothing (imo he could've gained much more, also if he wouldn't had to pull for Remco after he dropped on the descent), while claiming that it was totally reasonable for Almeida to wait for Remco so that (due to the mental aspect) Remco could've supposedly lost a few seconds less at the finish?

Remco was already at the back of the group as soon as the Zoncolan ascent has begun so it was obviuos he's gonna lost a siginificant amount of time today.

 

[topt]

I'm curious to see if they let Almeida do his own race from now on.

well, they did destroy his podium chances so doesnt really matter from now on

 

[topt]

I hope he can help Remco next week

to do what, come 15th at the end

 

[topt]

Why? He couldn't predict just how much time he would lose. And you don't know what he said in the radio. Maybe he said not to wait, but the teamcar disagreed.

right

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No doubt, Almeida is at the moment stronger than Remco in every aspect (ok, in TT they may be equal). I'm willing to say that it's Almeida who'll be DQS's highest placed guy in GC at the end of the race, as I expect Remco only loosing more and more time on the mountain stages. Then if we consider that GC is the only DQS's goal for this Giro (top 10 in GC wow), how can you say that few seconds that could've been gained by Almieda is nothing (imo he could've gained much more, also if he wouldn't had to pull for Remco after he dropped on the descent), while claiming that it was totally reasonable for Almeida to wait for Remco so that (due to the mental aspect) Remco could've lost a few seconds less at the finish?

Remco was already at the back of the group as soon as the Zoncolan ascent has begun so it was obviuos he's gonna lost a siginificant amount of time today.

This is simply not true. he was at the back when the final steep part of the climb came.
Remco climbed 4 minutes faster in the first week, but that doesn't count? It only counts when Almeida is stronger?
The only thing Almeida has been consistently better at this Giro, is gravel and descending.

Based on Zoncolan performance i would say the team did made a mistake calling back Almeida. When Evenepoel has struggled on gravel. Almeida should not be blamed for initially opposing that idea. Likely the decision was not based on ego but a decision made on insight.

In the end the team should know in what shape their GC riders are in. Evenepoel is losing a bit on gravel and a bit on climbing and a bit on punchy finishes ... Almeida was more or less always a notch ahead, minus the stage 4. They just bet everything on Evenepoel and it backfired.

Yes Almeida should be blamed for not sticking to his leader. At that moment Evenepoel was 5 minutes ahead in GC. Only idiots would make a different decision. They could not predict Almeida's curve to be going up, or Evenepoel's curve going down, especially since they expected him to improve over 3 weeks due to his shirt prep. And as it stands, Evenepoel is still less than 4 minutes down in GC, and there is no way Almeida would have taken time back on Bernal, so after two weeks, Evenepoel is still better placed than Almeida would have been even if he did not lose additional time.

 

[topt]

No, it does make sense, because nobody could foresee how much time would be lost. And honestly, Almeida might have finished along with Vlasov or Carthy, so what? He would have been 8 minutes down in GC instead of 8m30s.

he would be already ahead of Remco if he didnt have to pull him on gravel stage

 

[Salvarani]

I think Joaos body language when being called back and riding Remco of his wheel while tryna pace him, has not been that great to watch. Probably not the best thing to do for team spirit and morale.

With that being said, Joao is eager to show how good he is and is obviously feeling good and going a lot better than Remco atm. He is also riding for his future and a new contract/team for next year. He is young and wants to prove himself. Assisting someone is not something he is used to or especially good at. Not often has he been put in that position.

Remco is also young and leading a team is not an easy thing. How to lead and use your team in the best way possible. There will be lessons to be learned when it comes to leadership, and he is already probably learning how that goes right now. Unfortunately, it is how many of us believed. That he is missing something. Which is natural after being away from racing. It takes time to get back to where you were before. The kid is human.

Joao had a bad day, which basically put him out of the GC. They had to believe in Remco, who was still in contention. But as the race progressed, it seems Joao is the strongest of them in this race. He is still far behind and could maybe reach top 10 if some of the others guys completely fades and he gets to ride his own race from now on. He will probably have better luck going for a stage win or something though I reckon. Might be more worth it.

Either way it has put them in a predicament on what the team should ride for and what their aims should be to salvage the race. Maybe shift focus to try and win a stage instead of grinding out a possible top 10. Not have two riders getting frustrated at each other. Let them race for own ambitions.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

he would be already ahead of Remco if he didnt have to pull him on gravel stage

That's possible. But he would not have been closer to Bernal than Evenepoel is now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes Almeida should be blamed for not sticking to his leader. At that moment Evenepoel was 5 minutes ahead in GC. Only idiots would make a different decision. They could not predict Almeida's curve to be going up, or Evenepoel's curve going down, especially since they expected him to improve over 3 weeks due to his shirt prep. And as it stands, Evenepoel is still less than 4 minutes down in GC, and there is no way Almeida would have taken time back on Bernal, so after two weeks, Evenepoel is still better placed than Almeida would have been even if he did not lose additional time.

Could be but the team ought to have some data from training and i am sure that they trained together and that has set some inner team dynamics too. What i am trying to say is the whole thing was likely managed more by heart and hopes than anything else and Almeida got caught in the middle.

Bottom line Almeida should not be blamed, he did his part. Evenepoel now has to focus on week 3 and there is now a list on which areas he must improve in the future if he wants to win GT races. Gravel, punch and climbing.