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Joe Young vs Joe Wheelbuilder?

Dec 2, 2009
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i don't mean to single out joe young, or peter white, or any "known" wheel builder, but what's the difference between a nationally known builder and the local LBS guy, who is a top notch mechanic, but maybe doesn't have a reputation for building the best wheels in the country, but seems competent enough.

is there some kind of black art to it?


i'm looking to build a set of training wheels. here are the specs:

record hubset
32 spokes - type and brand undecided
ambrosia excellight clincher rims

i weigh 155-160 lbs, depending on where we are in the season, and i will use these for training rides, and as a back-up in the neutral support truck- maybe even some CX duty.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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www.ridemagnetic.com
r_mutt said:
i don't mean to single out joe young, or peter white, or any "known" wheel builder, but what's the difference between a nationally known builder and the local LBS guy, who is a top notch mechanic, but maybe doesn't have a reputation for building the best wheels in the country, but seems competent enough.

Nothing really, it's all relative. Though I don't know that you'd want a shop mechanic to build you a set that doesn't at least have some decent rep or was recommended highly by someone. These older guys at the shops or otherwise like to self-propel themselves into the "Master Class" purely based on credentialism and years of service whether they build decent wheels or not, or in the public eye or not. The differences between what you'd get from a really good builder from a shop that has to juggle many other aspects of the bike, or a pro builder who's only business is wheels, is absolutely none. I used to believe that there was, but there isn't. Just stay away from the shop that just taught their high school kid to true wheels, let them cut their teeth trying to fix the horrible robot built wheels from the big brands.

is there some kind of black art to it?

Not really. It's the hardest thing on the bike to master aside from fabricating your own frame, but just like a custom frame builder, experience means nothing, Sasha White (Vanilla) is a good example. Some people have the gift, some don't. It takes a critical eye, sensitive hands, patience and a mechanical understanding of what your doing. I'd rather have a set built by someone who has the 'gift' or is one with the 'force' with maybe only 3 years of experience and a good rep, than some old shop curmudgeon who may have 30 years that constantly refers to how much experience they have. Personality goes a long way too, it's not just the end product. People like to feel comfortable with the person who's doing this stuff for them.


i'm looking to build a set of training wheels. here are the specs:

record hubset
32 spokes - type and brand undecided
ambrosia excellight clincher rims

i weigh 155-160 lbs, depending on where we are in the season, and i will use these for training rides, and as a back-up in the neutral support truck- maybe even some CX duty.


Sounds good to me, I just built a 28h hill climb set from the same rims.
 
r_mutt said:
i don't mean to single out joe young, or peter white, or any "known" wheel builder, but what's the difference between a nationally known builder and the local LBS guy, who is a top notch mechanic, but maybe doesn't have a reputation for building the best wheels in the country, but seems competent enough.

is there some kind of black art to it?


i'm looking to build a set of training wheels. here are the specs:

record hubset
32 spokes - type and brand undecided
ambrosia excellight clincher rims

i weigh 155-160 lbs, depending on where we are in the season, and i will use these for training rides, and as a back-up in the neutral support truck- maybe even some CX duty.

Wheelbuilding's not hard but can be 'difficult'.

One guy has a web site and sells around the country and a local wheelbuilder focuses on local market but 'probably' both build good wheels.

I think the biggest problem with handbuilt wheels is the 'market' has some real hacks in it, local bike shops that have some guy who builds maybe one or two a month, so is considered a 'wheelbuilder'. Or a wheelbuilder who will build anything the rider wants in spite of knowing it won't be a reliable set of wheels. Many MO outfits are guilty of this, I know cuz I see their wheels.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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www.ridemagnetic.com
r_mutt said:
thanks! i like the idea of going local, if only because i like to build a relationship with a shop, or a certain mechanic.

And that's really the best thing, support your local LBS. If you have a shop with a decent wheel builder you're gold. The problem over the years is that decent wheel builders at shops are becoming harder and harder to find. Bustedknuckle raises a good point about all those mail order companies or big wheel mfg's. Thing is most can build good wheels, but the one-size-fits all are the worst, and the quality of the parts are not always the greatest, usually the hubs, Mavic, Zipp, take your pick, the list is huge. The customer isn't always right either, a 200 lb rider is not going to fair well riding everyday on a 1300g low spoke count wheel set meant for race day and meant for lighter riders no matter if you add 2 or 4 more spokes. I still help out at my LBS part time and we actually see more wheels from other local shops that were either poorly designed, or poorly built, usually both.
 
Dec 29, 2009
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r_mutt said:
i don't mean to single out joe young, or peter white, or any "known" wheel builder, but what's the difference between a nationally known builder and the local LBS guy, who is a top notch mechanic, but maybe doesn't have a reputation for building the best wheels in the country, but seems competent enough.

is there some kind of black art to it?


i'm looking to build a set of training wheels. here are the specs:

record hubset
32 spokes - type and brand undecided
ambrosia excellight clincher rims

i weigh 155-160 lbs, depending on where we are in the season, and i will use these for training rides, and as a back-up in the neutral support truck- maybe even some CX duty.

i'd trust machine made wheels before wheels made by an unknown builder.

ed rader
 
Mar 19, 2009
2,703
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www.ridemagnetic.com
erader said:
i'd trust machine made wheels before wheels made by an unknown builder.

ed rader

Machine built wheels are for people who don't know any better. If you've ever built up a big brand bike out of the box, like Trek for instance, all those Bontrager wheels are absolute junk no matter what level when you first put them in the stand. If you're one of those who happens to have a big brand wheel set that actually stayed true and served you well for many years, it only means that the mechanic who unpacked it is skilled and took the time to resolve the horrendous variance in tension that machine built wheels inherently end up with, sometimes 40% in the same wheel. They're usually visually true, but take a tension gauge for a trip around the wheel and you'll be surprised. Seeing as your from Northern Cali, you can't throw a rock out your door without hitting 10 really good wheel builders in the head, so I'm not sure why you would even say that. Always have wheels built by hand. Those 250k wheel robots do more damage to wheels than you would care to know. ;)
 
erader said:
i'd trust machine made wheels before wheels made by an unknown builder.

ed rader

The only way a typical machine built wheel will be reliable is to have a decent wheelbuilder true, round, tension, dish, stress relieve them..THEN they will be a decent wheelset. Some builder that has a web site is as 'unknown' as the guy at the bike shop you just met. Having a web site built doesn't make them a good wheelbuilder.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I've had Joe Young build a set of wheels for me. They were everything I wanted ..... they've never needed touched in 10 years.

While no one builder is the very best ..... there are many average ones which charge top dollar. If someone says I'll build you a set of wheels, and come back so I can retrue them after XXX miles ..... I pass. I want my wheels to "stand". . . . meaning once they leave the builder they won't need touched or break a spoke. This is a high standard, yes ..... but it's done everyday by excellent wheel builders around the world.

If you wonder if a builder is good enough, ask him if his wheels need tuning or break spokes. Ask people who they've built for how their wheels are.

If the builder is local ..... that's great. Most don't have that option though.... so guys like Joe Young have plenty of business. I for one would not be willing to buy local just to be local, if the builder isn't good enough. I've done it in the past ..... it sucked. I don't have anyone around where I live, so I must rely on Joe Young or some other professional ..... someone I trust.
 
May 11, 2010
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I was 300 lbs and joe young built me a set of wheels,mavic rims 48 spokes phil wood hubs,yes they are heavy! so am I,awesome wheels,Now I'm 255 lbshe built me a set with 40 spokes,I could go down to 36 in the front,joe young is good ,I had a set built in 1985 by a guy at performance bike shop they lasted me 10 years ,I asked him how long till you get good at building rims he laughed and said" after 500 wheels you'll get godd",I was hit by a 22 year old singel mother no insurance,I went back to performance that man had passed,he was a good man,so anyhow Joe young will always build mine and he is a great guy you can call him and talk to him, he is really nice call that peter guy he won't talk to you,I guess I got lucky by finding Joe Young he truly is a good man and his wheels are great thanks I just happened to see this site so I had to give my 2 cents,I wish I could meet him in person,I'm going to Texas and meet him as soon as I get the chance
lostintime said:
I've had Joe Young build a set of wheels for me. They were everything I wanted ..... they've never needed touched in 10 years.

While no one builder is the very best ..... there are many average ones which charge top dollar. If someone says I'll build you a set of wheels, and come back so I can retrue them after XXX miles ..... I pass. I want my wheels to "stand". . . . meaning once they leave the builder they won't need touched or break a spoke. This is a high standard, yes ..... but it's done everyday by excellent wheel builders around the world.

If you wonder if a builder is good enough, ask him if his wheels need tuning or break spokes. Ask people who they've built for how their wheels are.

If the builder is local ..... that's great. Most don't have that option though.... so guys like Joe Young have plenty of business. I for one would not be willing to buy local just to be local, if the builder isn't good enough. I've done it in the past ..... it sucked. I don't have anyone around where I live, so I must rely on Joe Young or some other professional ..... someone I trust.
 

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