Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Netserk]

Time for his own clinic-thread.

 

[Fergoose]

Yes. We must understandably suspect top riders. I'm curious though, how much faster up the final climb was he than Gaudu? It might have been a minute at most. Or am I messing up and Gaudu had caught back up with the leaders by the foot of the final climb? I blame adverts for not knowing.

 

[Netserk]

Yes. We must understandably suspect top riders. I'm curious though, how much faster up the final climb was he than Gaudu? It might have been a minute at most. Or am I messing up and Gaudu had caught back up with the leaders by the foot of the final climb? I blame adverts for not knowing.

Yes.

 

[Fergoose]

Yes.

Cheers. That does remove any obstacle for suspicion. Sure, the opponents on the final climb were either not superstar climbers OR were having awful days (Pog, Rog & Mas) but Vingegaard was so much faster than solid 5-10 placed GC performers that it is only reasonable to think something is afoot.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yes.

How far back was Lutsenko before the final climb?

 

[Cookster15]

At last. The thread is one year too late. This wasn’t a handful of seconds it was a demolition on the hardest climb used in the Tour for years.

Poor Roglic it seems he’ll never win a tour now after the crushing disappointment of 2020.

 

[Netserk]

How far back was Lutsenko before the final climb?

He was in the GC group at the bottom of Granon.

So Mas was the first rider (+8'08'') who started Granon after the favourites. Next after him is Meintjes (+12'17'').

 

[Rackham]

At last. The thread is one year too late. This wasn’t a handful of seconds it was a demolition on the hardest climb used in the Tour for years.

Poor Roglic it seems he’ll never win a tour now after the crushing disappointment of 2020.

He'll need to change teams at the end of the year & say goodbye to his old friends. Thus is life. Either that or he becomes a bottle carrier for the Danish musical bikes mutant if he wants to go to the TdF next year. No more co-leadership if Vinge wins the TdF, it would be impossible. I think Roglic needs (& deserves) a little team for himself like Quintana has & should be allowed to enjoy going to the TdF as an outsider with his own freedom.

As for what happened, to me the reality is as plain as a nose on the face, i.e. Jumbo Visma just got their revenge for La Planche des Belles Filles 2020. They analysed what went wrong a got themselves a younger super responder to fight Pogacar. The odds on Jumbo just happening to find & almost magically build one of the greatest all-rounders & climbers of this generation at such an opportune moment to defeat Pogacar are astronomically thin. I suppose Roglic played a role in finally avenging that Tour but it's indeed bittersweet.

Considering Vingegaard's team, I think that performance should scare the bejeezus out of everyone. I didn't expect him to be that strong, i.e. a stratospheric level.

Now Vingegaard can enjoy the 'other' aspect of decimating the field in the TdF. Aka the conversation which this part of the forum is dedicated to. We'll see how he copes with that part of the "I'm gonna blow my rivals to pieces in the TdF" life as a bike racer.

 

[Netserk]

Jumbo is the best team for the watts, so Rogla will stay and will also be a co-captain next year.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Jumbo is the best team for the watts, so Rogla will stay and will also be a co-captain next year.

Maybe Giro-Vuelta for him next year?

 

[Cookster15]

It’s not the performance so much as what he showed before arriving out of nowhere in 2021. Look at the relative records of Pogacar and this guy. Pogacar had big results since an 18 year old. Then let’s not forget Vingegaard is nearly two years older. This is much more obvious than Chicken in 2007. I tend to agree with Rackham’s assessment…..

Jumbo Visma just got their revenge for La Planche des Belles Filles 2020. They analysed what went wrong a got themselves a younger super responder to fight Pogacar

 

[Rackham]

Jumbo is the best team for the watts, so Rogla will stay and will also be a co-captain next year.

I don't know. I think the whole co-captain strategy was to defeat Pogacar. That's done now. I consider (without accident or Covid) this TdF effectively over. Vingegaard will do what all previous strongest riders have always done in the Tour (at least in recent history): win. Jumbo probably also knew he was stronger than anyone else in the race as well (or at least had their suspicions). I now also consider the Dauphiné to be a giant pisstake from Jumbo, i.e. holding Jonas back for maximum effect here in the TdF.

After this little spectacle there's no way (or reason why) Jumbo should take two leaders. The race will now change for Vingegaard anyway, i.e. he'll be the one riding defensive most days (something for which he'll need domestiques to control the race) & then attack on the final climbs where he will make a difference with his watts (something he can do himself).

Roglic doesn't have a role in that scenario unless it's a dirty one (super dom Kwiatkowski style).

 

[Netserk]

Maybe Giro-Vuelta for him next year?

I doubt it, and I hope not. The arms-race continues for the Tour.

 

[Netserk]

It’s not the performance so much as what he showed before arriving out of nowhere in 2021. Look at the relative records of Pogacar and this guy. Pogacar had big results since an 18 year old. Then let’s not forget Vingegaard is nearly two years older. This is much more obvious than Chicken in 2007. I tend to agree with Rackham’s assessment…..

It's also a matter of when you start eating the big boy breakfast.

 

[Rackham]

I knew something was going on when Jumbo gave Jonas V & WvA preferential placement on the team car for his spare bike on the cobbled stage 5, then earlier today their social media Twitter account suggested their followers should ask their bosses for the day off to watch the stage because something big was going to happen. Jumbo knew because they have the data.

For what it's worth I missed the end myself. But I saw the numbers + gaps & they're crazy.

 

[JosefK]

Jonas is coming of age--now has his own Clinic thread! Today's win (stage 11) was an eye-opener but not a Froome-out-of-nowhere level surprise. Vinegar was clearly the 2nd best rider at the TDF last year (after Roglic crashed out), and was the only rider at that Tour to come close to unseating Pogi on a mountain climb (even if it was for just a short time). -- Not denying today was H-bomb level stuff, though.

 

[Cookster15]

Best ride today was Geraint Thomas. Not bad for an old dude. But sad that I have to come to the Clinic to speak freely about what we saw today.

But this place seems quiet? in the old days it would have gone into meltdown after a performance like today.

 

[JosefK]

Best ride today was Geraint Thomas. Not bad for an old dude. But sad that I have to come to the Clinic to speak freely about what we saw today.

But this place seems quiet? in the old days it would have gone into meltdown after a performance like today.

Oh yes, G was the real mutant of the day, today!

 

[roundabout]

Oh yes, G was the real mutant of the day, today!

While the guy who was 20 seconds per km faster than Thomas in the last 5k was just faking his 'mutantness'?

Or to put it a bit differently, the 'real' mutant was 5% worse on the last climb than the 'fake' one.

 

[Cookster15]

Jonas is coming of age--now has his own Clinic thread! Today's win (stage 11) was an eye-opener but not a Froome-out-of-nowhere level surprise. Vinegar was clearly the 2nd best rider at the TDF last year (after Roglic crashed out), and was the only rider at that Tour to come close to unseating Pogi on a mountain climb (even if it was for just a short time). -- Not denying today was H-bomb level stuff, though.

Well I think last year’s TdF is when this thread should have been started. He hadn’t done much before then.

Nobody doubts funny stuff with Pogi but at least he had been winning lots since an 18 year old. We can’t say the same of the two year older Vingegaard’s pre 2021 results. If this isn’t a good example of a top responder then there is no such thing. It also tells me JV are ahead of the curve as no doubt the Drs have carefully manipulated the blood profile.

 

[BullsFan22]

Yep. He’s on the sauce.

 

[noob]

Michael is happy to have his own thread after being silenced for so many years

 

[Rackham]

Yep. He’s on the sauce.

It's so obvious it's almost funny. This is an arms race & UAE just got wrecked in a game they escalated themselves (today's Jonas performance is the net result of those facial expressions in the Jumbo team car on La Planche 2020). Vingegaard is going to be a problem for Pogi going forward as well, due to his lighter weight power ratio watts whatever & by far stronger team.

Now Pogacar is of course an all rounder who'll dominate & compete in classics as well, whereas Vingegaard looks like a typical July monster who shows up at the TdF with disgusting superpowers which demoralize everyone in the biggest race of the year. And that's something else which is so obvious, i.e. this isn't the same Vingegaard as the one we saw in spring. He's still just as clumsy on a bike & easily panicked of course (lol @ last week's bike swap fail), but the watts... it's an unbeatable combo (strongest team + strongest rider).

 

[Rackham]

Michael is happy to have his own thread after being silenced for so many years

There's still time for Jumbo to send another Rasmussen home... just kidding.

 

[Cookster15]

The thing is the Granon is hardly raced so we can't use the climbing time today as any guide. That won't be the case when the Alpe is on the menu tomorrow. Obviously it also depends on how the teams race and conditions, headwinds etc.