Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Nomad]

That's true tbf, more likely to wait for the first rest day.

Wouldn't some maybe top off their Hct/Hgb levels right up to the upper limits of their ABP threshold levels? (after 4 days of hard racing & I'm sure levels are starting to drop a little).

I agree - the first major transfusion will be on the rest day.

 

[noob]

So if it's not the lungs it might be the concussion 🤔

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Bad blood bag is the new terminology for being married to a ***?

 

[Red Rick]

This was the race he was allegedly borderline on triggering the biopassport

What? I never heard of this?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

One of the great days for the rebreather ban conspiracy theorists

Having said that;

La Vuelta Ciclista a España 2023 Stage 10 (ITT) results

La Vuelta Ciclista a España 2023 Stage 10 (ITT) from Valladolid to Valladolid was won by Filippo Ganna before Remco Evenepoel and Primož RogliÄ. Sepp Kuss was leading the general classification.

procyclingstats.com

This was the race he was allegedly borderline on triggering the biopassport

But if you're not borderline, you're clearly not doing enough. We know he wouldn't take anything he wouldn't give to his kids, but he never said he wouldn't take it in a much higher quantity.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

This was the race he was allegedly borderline on triggering the biopassport

You cannot post a claim like that without giving us at least one reputable source. If not, let's all just start pointing to random races where arbitrarily selected riders "allegedly borderline triggered the bio passport."

 

[Rob5091]

I think Jonas is simply overtrained this year. Visma Lab probably pushed him too much after the Dauphine fiasco. It's just stage 5 ITT, you don't use blood bags in the first week of the Tour. Jonas finished outside top 10 - it's a disaster.

This is basically what Trine was saying. Which begs the question, why keep sending him to "altitude training" camp? Short term doping, Xenon gas huffing (It helps to climb Everest at record speed) or some other medical "miracle"?

 

[pelotonIQ]

You cannot post a claim like that without giving us at least one reputable source. If not, let's all just start pointing to random races where arbitrarily selected riders "allegedly borderline triggered the bio passport."

If only you could give us a ''reputable source'' when you're accusing Pogacar. Rules for thee, but not for me.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

If only you could give us a ''reputable source'' when you're accusing Pogacar. Rules for thee, but not for me.

Give me a break. Nobody is asking for reputable sources when people are speculating that Vingegaard is doped based on circumstantial evidence. There's a very clear difference between that and then stating that a rider borderline triggered the bio passport. One is loosely speculating and wouldn't merit any real conversation outside of this forum, the other is claiming that something very concrete happened, that would clearly merit not just conversations but also journalistic efforts to cover.

 

[zlev11]

Wouldn't be surprised

You might remember back in February some of us were speculating briefly that the second tier teams had caught up a bit and the field was more level. Visma and UAE were winning less and the likes of Bahrain, quickstep, Tudor, q35, Lidl were looking good.

UAE since shattered those delusions with Pocagar, Almida, Ajuso, de Toro, Wellens all looking their best ever. That team is absolutely not slowing down.

But I honestly think Simon's Giro win has done some great PR for visma who are having an awful season otherwise. And that giro win was one excellent day against a 20 year old and an EF rider who wouldn't help each other. The rest of the season Simon has been also poor.

Jonas hasn't looked good all year. Van aert is not a threat in the big classics. I would say that jorgensen looks worse than 2024.


Keldermen, Benoit, van battle, kruijsvijk, kuss, campanaerts, are all having poor seasons. Vallter and uijtedbrockes continue to get worse and worse. Zingle hasn't impressed.

The only Visma riders who seem to have a good season are tullett and kooj, young riders who are developing naturally .


Of course I will look like a clown when van aert drops pocagar on hautaxam, but at the moment they don't seem to have the same preparations available.

They were the team who had roglic, Laporte and WVA dropping the whole field on a Paris nice cat 4 climb a few years ago. They won a vuelta with sepp kussz, my god. Compare that to 2025

they haven't been the same since Laporte disappeared with his "injury" last year. i still think back to that and wonder if he got a silent ban and they've toned it down. that was early 2024 right after they won all 3 grand tours. probably targeted testing.

 

[zlev11]

You cannot post a claim like that without giving us at least one reputable source. If not, let's all just start pointing to random races where arbitrarily selected riders "allegedly borderline triggered the bio passport."

this is a discussion forum, not a newspaper. he can post whatever he wants.

 

[AmRacer]

they haven't been the same since Laporte disappeared with his "injury" last year. i still think back to that and wonder if he got a silent ban and they've toned it down. that was early 2024 right after they won all 3 grand tours. probably targeted testing.

Can we trust the official explanation why Nathan retired? Or the reason why, which we never will know.

 

[Unchained]

Give me a break. Nobody is asking for reputable sources when people are speculating that Vingegaard is doped based on circumstantial evidence. There's a very clear difference between that and then stating that a rider borderline triggered the bio passport. One is loosely speculating and wouldn't merit any real conversation outside of this forum, the other is claiming that something very concrete happened, that would clearly merit not just conversations but also journalistic efforts to cover.

Zlev 11 makes the real point, forum vs newspaper or magazine, registered outlets like TV stations.
The reason that these stories based on flimsy data don't have legs, the legal system..
If you go after an athlete, A team, program.. You better have some elaborate, solid evidence to back your claims or telling your version of a story can get you sued and cost you lots of money!! Slander and liable are different everywhere but you have to be careful.. Clever writers can tell stories, not much fact and not get into legal peril

 

[Rob5091]

they haven't been the same since Laporte disappeared with his "injury" last year. i still think back to that and wonder if he got a silent ban and they've toned it down. that was early 2024 right after they won all 3 grand tours. probably targeted testing.

Maybe "Cassandra" Trine is more right then she realizes, or they over did the "altitude training"?

 

[Mayomaniac]

So did his family come to visit him on the rest day, to recharge him properly with love and lugworms?

 

[kamaveli]

As everyone has noticed, Visma/Jonas has been riding very aggressively against Pogacar on the Tour. A strange tactic because as a result it seems that they have only smoked more matches themselves, lost bonus seconds and collapsed in the time trial. Still, they are very confident that they will recover better from the strain during the Tour.
I find this quite suspicious. Do they have some new method that gives them an advantage or are the good old blood bags back?

 

[E_F_]

So did his family come to visit him on the rest day, to recharge him properly with love and lugworms?

"I'll give you anything you would give to our daughter."

 

[peterfin]

As everyone has noticed, Visma/Jonas has been riding very aggressively against Pogacar on the Tour. A strange tactic because as a result it seems that they have only smoked more matches themselves, lost bonus seconds and collapsed in the time trial. Still, they are very confident that they will recover better from the strain during the Tour.
I find this quite suspicious. Do they have some new method that gives them an advantage or are the good old blood bags back?

Or PEDs have him so pumped up that he can't control himself.

 

[Cassirer]

As everyone has noticed, Visma/Jonas has been riding very aggressively against Pogacar on the Tour. A strange tactic because as a result it seems that they have only smoked more matches themselves, lost bonus seconds and collapsed in the time trial. Still, they are very confident that they will recover better from the strain during the Tour.
I find this quite suspicious. Do they have some new method that gives them an advantage or are the good old blood bags back?

Right now I don't think the aggressive racing tells us anything. If they think Jonas will be weaker in the mountains, they should try creating some chaos in these stages especially since atm they have the stronger team; also the greater-recovery-hypothesis has lost most of its merit last year, but is still maybe the only hope. If vinge drops him like 22/23, then your suspicions will probably have been right.

 

[Red Rick]

He's just Danish Alaphilippe now, proper 2 minute unipuerto merchant.

 

[E_F_]

He's just Danish Alaphilippe now, proper 2 minute unipuerto merchant.

Yeah, well he needs to convert to one day races..!

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Looks like the whole team lost access to something or chose to stop using something, maybe they got told to tone it down, maybe is budget, maybe after van hojdonck they decided not to get so risky. Or maybe it's just the carbon monoxide being so vital to their performance. Who knows. But Jonas in 2022-23 looked invincible in the hot, hard mountain stages , that combloux ITT was unprecedented even in the most doped eras, and now he's riding around at lipovitz, Oscar olney level. Sep kuss, jorgensen, Benoot, van aert all got so much worse

 

[solo80k]

Now we know - the best results are achieved after a serious accident and indoor preparations. So he should stay home more often to be competitive next year.

 

[ontheroad]

Looks like the whole team lost access to something or chose to stop using something, maybe they got told to tone it down, maybe is budget, maybe after van hojdonck they decided not to get so risky. Or maybe it's just the carbon monoxide being so vital to their performance. Who knows. But Jonas in 2022-23 looked invincible in the hot, hard mountain stages , that combloux ITT was unprecedented even in the most doped eras, and now he's riding around at lipovitz, Oscar olney level. Sep kuss, jorgensen, Benoot, van aert all got so much worse

Vingegaard slightly poorer than expected but this could have been partially explained by trying to stay with Pogacars pace and then going over the limit. Also he had to endure a long 11km solo ride after that with no assistance from any team mates.

Jorgensen (10:25) was way below last years form while Kuss (13:30) and Yates (15:05) are both grand tour winners and proven climbers who looked well below par. Thats before you mention WVA (39:25) who has had an almost invisible tour and for whom the contrast with his last ascent up Hautacam wearing green could not be starker.

 

[Forever The Best]

Looks like the whole team lost access to something or chose to stop using something, maybe they got told to tone it down, maybe is budget, maybe after van hojdonck they decided not to get so risky. Or maybe it's just the carbon monoxide being so vital to their performance. Who knows. But Jonas in 2022-23 looked invincible in the hot, hard mountain stages , that combloux ITT was unprecedented even in the most doped eras, and now he's riding around at lipovitz, Oscar olney level. Sep kuss, jorgensen, Benoot, van aert all got so much worse

Same here. The whole team looked weaker compared to last year as well and Vingegaard was slower than he was in 2022 despite huge action on Spandelles that day. And he was also bad in the TT. For some reason he has very good explosivity but does not have the strength for long efforts.
Last year they were very strong on Plateau de Beille and Vingegaard even demolished Pantani's time.