Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Krzysztof_O]

Well I can't agree, because Granon was I believe superior. Only PDBF is compatible.

I would say all four performances (Pog's mentioned efforts plus Granon and Hautacam) are comparable and on top-end of human performances. I consider Hautacam more impressive than Granon because Vinge distanced Pog, who actually distanced the rest comfortably (but his streak of ridiculous accelerations on Spendelles and a fall may have affected the gap between the two).

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Maybe Roglic was already Dopping as a Skijumper

 

[Andy schleck]

Sure, Vinge looks like the ultimate GT racer while Pog like the ultimate road cyclist. But I don't think Vinge's best Tour performances were better than Pog's PDBF and Le Grand Bornand.

It's always difficult to compare performances between the two, but let's not forget that last year's tour was the most fastest tour ever, and the numbers on granon and hautacam after a high pace on galibier and spandelles, were some of the best performances of this century.
The guy did 6.32 w/kg on hautacam during 36 min after doing nearly 6.2 w/kg during 30 min on spandelles.....
The only time i saw pogacar doing 6.3 w/kg during a long climb of 35/36 min was prati di tivo on TA 2021, and it was a easy stage until the foot of prati di tivo, in a one week race.

I think the most impressive performance of pogacar was the TT on LPDBF.
Romme/colombiere was a good performance but i think what pogacar did on spandelles and hautacam, are at least at the same level.

 

[acm]

Maybe Roglic was already Dopping as a Skijumper

Haha, what kind of drugs would ski jumpers use?

 

[Andy schleck]

Haha, what kind of drugs would ski jumpers use?

Redbull.

 

[Nick2413]

So if Vingegaard was riding around as a slightly above average climber then turned into a world beater when they put him on a program, is that an indication of what would happen to anyone getting out on a super program? Or super responding? It’s tricky because it’s hard to believe it isn’t being tried on all the top 25 or so riders, but also hard to believe he’s that much more talented given his earlier history. I suspect only a couple teams are really maxing it out, and it’s the UAEs and JVs.

Also look at how random domestiques within those teams occasionally put up world class climbing numbers on key days, like McNulty on Peyragudes last year and Wout and Laporte (not that they’re random, but all the sudden world’s best on any parcours at any given moment) whenever Jumbo needs them. You don’t see that on other teams, except for… Padun. I do think Vingegaard is the beneficiary of a very potent cocktail, but his top rivals are also on par with it.

 

[Extinction]

Granon was thanks to Pog chasing Roglic and blowing himself up.

Nope, it was because Ving went thermoneuclear.

 

[Cookster15]

Nope, it was because Ving went thermoneuclear.

Disagree. He lost nearly three minutes. You don’t lose three minutes in 5km like that at this level unless you blow. He blew because he thought he could cover both Roglic and Vingegaard. He learned a painful lesson.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Disagree. He lost nearly three minutes. You don’t lose three minutes in 5km like that at this level unless you blow. He blew because he thought he could cover both Roglic and Vingegaard. He learned a painful lesson.

Seems like it was the result of both. Vingegaard went thermonuclear and Pogi screwed up, causing him to completely pop and finish well behind inferior riders.

 

[meat puppet]

Let's just hope vingo never catches, or, depending on the current spin on the narrative, recovers from badzhilla, brings his own pillow or begins to put pineapple juice into his bidons. That would render inferior teams truly Wigan.

 

[Cookster15]

Seems like it was the result of both. Vingegaard went thermonuclear and Pogi screwed up, causing him to completely pop and finish well behind inferior riders.

You are right. Pog finished 90 seconds behind Thomas who pretty sure he was climbing better than.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 11 results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 11 from Albertville to Col du Granon was won by Jonas Vingegaard before Nairo Quintana and Romain Bardet. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's always difficult to compare performances between the two, but let's not forget that last year's tour was the most fastest tour ever, and the numbers on granon and hautacam after a high pace on galibier and spandelles, were some of the best performances of this century.
The guy did 6.32 w/kg on hautacam during 36 min after doing nearly 6.2 w/kg during 30 min on spandelles.....
The only time i saw pogacar doing 6.3 w/kg during a long climb of 35/36 min was prati di tivo on TA 2021, and it was a easy stage until the foot of prati di tivo, in a one week race.

I think the most impressive performance of pogacar was the TT on LPDBF.
Romme/colombiere was a good performance but i think what pogacar did on spandelles and hautacam, are at least at the same level.

I'm not sure about exact comparison of w/kg alone (due to various factors regarding calculations). Anyway, Pog did 6.42 w/kg and 6.22 w/kg on Romme and Colombiere almost consecutively (barely 5-6 km of break) and averaged almost 1800 m/h of VAM on those. They were shorter (49 minutes in total compared to 65 minutes) but OTOH climbing speeds were higher and the break between them much smaller (than Spendelles and Hautacam) and he did most of them alone (no WVA pacing on the second climb). And he absolutely crushed the competition (sure, he likes cold weather but let's not pretend it's not a performance limiting factor for most guys Vinge included). Definitely comparable stuff to Vinge's performance, maybe even more impressive.

 

[Rob5091]

Apparently Vingegaard has the heart and lungs of a 400 lb gorilla which is why Jumbo signed him. He did break a leg in 2017 which meant he missed most of that year but it's his TT-ing that baffles me.

 

[Extinction]

Disagree. He lost nearly three minutes. You don’t lose three minutes in 5km like that at this level unless you blow. He blew because he thought he could cover both Roglic and Vingegaard. He learned a painful lesson.

Even if he hadn't blown, Vingegaard was too strong and would have dropped him anyway. Not by 3 minutes, but plus 1 yes.

 

[Riek s]

Apparently Vingegaard has the heart and lungs of a 400 lb gorilla which is why Jumbo signed him. He did break a leg in 2017 which meant he missed most of that year but it's his TT-ing that baffles me.

So organ replacement. Seems far fetched, but ok

 

[Cookster15]

but it's his TT-ing that baffles me.

If he had the heart and lungs of a 400lb gorilla he would have set the world on fire from a younger age. Agree about his TT. He almost beat a rampant WvA on that flat stage 20 TT. Lots of nonsense about his low CdA. Sounds like Armstrong in that regard. Making up feasible stories to deflect suspicion.

 

[wansteadimp]

Haha, what kind of drugs would ski jumpers use?

Something to keep the weight off but still maintain power - I can't imagine where else that would be useful.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If he had the heart and lungs of a 400lb gorilla he would have set the world on fire from a younger age. Agree about his TT. He almost beat a rampant WvA on that flat stage 20 TT. Lots of nonsense about his low CdA. Sounds like Armstrong in that regard. Making up feasible stories to deflect suspicion.

His upperbody is thin like a pipe so CdA stuff maybe makes sense. Keep in mind that at a younger age he utilized his exceptional fitness in another business (fishing industry) and used his bike only to get to work (when it wasn't too windy OFC).

 

[acm]

Something to keep the weight off but still maintain power - I can't imagine where else that would be useful.

Nah, ski jumping is totally different. It's not that much about power, suits and other equipment is way more important. Roglic once mentioned something about slow muscles and therefore cycling was not recommended for ski jumpers.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Nah, ski jumping is totally different. It's not that much about power, suits and other equipment is way more important. Roglic once mentioned something about slow muscles and therefore cycling was not recommended for ski jumpers.

The smaller the hill, the more explosive power becomes important. It's still a weight obsessed sport and at least in the German speaking world nearly all the young athletes also do a bit of xc skiing on the side.

 

[Mayomaniac]

About Jonas Wineyard, he did win that uphill prologue on a shallower climb in the Giro della Valle d'Aosta in the u23 ranks (put 28sec into Honore in a 16min effort), so it looks like he always had a good engine.
Does that explain what he did over the last 2 years? Hell no!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

About Jonas Wineyard, he did win that uphill prologue on a shallower climb in the Giro della Valle d'Aosta in the u23 ranks (put 28sec into Honore in a 16min effort), so it looks like he always had a good engine.
Does that explain what he did over the last 2 years? Hell no!

It was a shame he crashed out of the race the next day and never got to ride l'Avenir fully fit, cause a good result there would at least have made it less of a surprise that he'd be able to perform well in GTs later on. The same goes for Jay Vine, who's had a not too dissimilar rise to the top (time will tell if too will be able to gain mutant status).

 

[firefly3323]

Haha, what kind of drugs would ski jumpers use?

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/vassiliev-banned-two-years-for-doping-1.280207

 

[Cookster15]

His upperbody is thin like a pipe so CdA stuff maybe makes sense

How many watts does he save via CdA to close the gap to a watt monster like Wout in TT? Enough to make up for his absolute power deficit to Wout? Not without "sauce".

I think it was the most insane performance by a climber in TT since Pantani in 1998 TdF.

Vingegaard rode a 40km slightly underlating and downhill TT just 19 seconds slower than Wout van Aert who was in superlative form that Tour. In fact Vingo might have won except he backed off to celebrate. Stage 20 was more insane than what he did on Granon or Hautacam. Lest we forget.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was won by Wout van Aert before Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej PogaÄar. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Enough to make up for his absolute power deficit to Wout?

What power deficit?