Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[pastronef]

With him chilling on Carapaz’ wheel on the steep part and not seeming to go too far into the red I doubt it’s too crazy, but the gaps were surprisingly large.

very disorganised chase group. noone was pulling very convincingly

 

[Red Rick]

Shouldn't be the craziest considering it was Carapaz pace for the steep section.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Shouldn't be the craziest considering it was Carapaz pace for the steep section.

Carapaz blew up afterwards, it was his 5-minute pace.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Huge climbing speed but obviously a very short effort, under 10 minutes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666854339263049752

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1666854339263049752?cxt=HHwWsMC9gZbM7aEuAAAA

 

[noob]

Has any serious poster claimed he isn't doped to the gills with fishy stuff?

Just like with all other big cyclist, I've just accepted that it is how it is. Also I'll never really blame the cyclist themselves, because they didn't create the system nor would they have had a chance to fight it.

How do you mean? No chance to fight it? Extrapolate?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How do you mean? No chance to fight it? Extrapolate?

A guy like Jonas Vingegaard could have decided not to dope, but that wouldn't have stopped other riders from doing it, and if he had spoken out against it, he would probably not have been able to have much of a career.

He could also have chosen to dope to a lesser degree, but then he would still have done the crime, he just wouldn't have got all the glory.

 

[Cookster15]

Vingegaard didn't beat Van Aert and it was a more hilly/slower ITT than the Annecy one where Contador actually managed to beat Cancellara.

So how was it crazier than that?

Both yesterday and the two previous Tours, Vingegaard's ITTs have been comparable to those of Contador. No more, no less.

On stage 20 of last year's Tour, Vingegaard was on track to beat the white hot on form Van Aert until he eased up in the final kms to savor the Tour victory and give his teammate the stage win. That stage was undulating and slightly downhill - frankly it was perfect for Van Aert.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was won by Wout van Aert before Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej PogaÄar. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

I also can't agree on the bold. Contador's TT's were usually best of the climbers but slightly slower than the specialists. 2009 Annecy was the exception when he was I think in career best form.

 

[Riek s]

Huge climbing speed but obviously a very short effort, under 10 minutes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666854339263049752

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1666854339263049752?cxt=HHwWsMC9gZbM7aEuAAAA

Lets remind us that this was the guy who wasn't good at the small climbs and needed the long climbs. (after rocketting up in 2021)

 

[Netserk]

Throughout the 2009 season, Contador won five ITTs, and finished only outside the top-2 once.

 

[Bolder]

Regarding his weight, he actually has pretty thick legs, just a tiny upper body. Whereas someone like Bardet or Bernal are just stick thin all over. But I firmly believe he's on a powerful program or is a super responder.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Lets remind us that this was the guy who wasn't good at the small climbs and needed the long climbs. (after rocketting up in 2021)

He's definitely great on shorter climbs and showed it at last year's Tour already (when going with Pogacar in Mende). It's just that longer climbs are better for him regarding his rivalry with Pogacar (who's absolutely superb on 5-, 10- or 20- minute climbs).

 

[SHAD0W93]

On stage 20 of last year's Tour, Vingegaard was on track to beat the white hot on form Van Aert until he eased up in the final kms to savor the Tour victory and give his teammate the stage win. That stage was undulating and slightly downhill - frankly it was perfect for Van Aert.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was won by Wout van Aert before Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej PogaÄar. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

I also can't agree on the bold. Contador's TT's were usually best of the climbers but slightly slower than the specialists. 2009 Annecy was the exception when he was I think in career best form.

Vinge was going for the win until he almost crashed and it became clear that Pog wasn’t going to beat WVA’s time. After that he eased up.

 

[Peyroteo94]

On stage 20 of last year's Tour, Vingegaard was on track to beat the white hot on form Van Aert until he eased up in the final kms to savor the Tour victory and give his teammate the stage win. That stage was undulating and slightly downhill - frankly it was perfect for Van Aert.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 20 (ITT) from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was won by Wout van Aert before Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej PogaÄar. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

I also can't agree on the bold. Contador's TT's were usually best of the climbers but slightly slower than the specialists. 2009 Annecy was the exception when he was I think in career best form.

Nah, Contador was a world beater in TT, specially in hilly TT. See how many top 5 he did in TT between 2007-2011. And these days, we don't have an engine like Cancellara. We are talking about the best time trialist of all time (you have a point if you mention Indurain)

 

[Cookster15]

And these days, we don't have an engine like Cancellara. We are talking about the best time trialist of all time (you have a point if you mention Indurain)

These are matters of opinion. But IMO Van Aert was in scintillating form at last years tour - Cancellara level. It just isn’t normal for 60kg riders to rival riders like that on courses like that - and physics says the same. One explanation brought up to explain Vingo’s TT was aero. I don’t buy that. What makes perfect sense to me is JV quickly needed a rider to fill Roglic’s shoes and got lucky.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

These are matters of opinion. But IMO Van Aert was in scintillating form at last years tour - Cancellara level. It just isn’t normal for 60kg riders to rival riders like that on courses like that - and physics says the same. One explanation brought up to explain Vingo’s TT was aero. I don’t buy that. What makes perfect sense to me is JV quickly needed a rider to fill Roglic’s shoes and got lucky.

Vingegaard's rise began before they needed a rider to fill Roglič's shoes. Also Roglič and Pogacar aren't exactly build like Cancellara or Van Aert either, yet they've also been able to beat the heavier time trialists.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

These are matters of opinion. But IMO Van Aert was in scintillating form at last years tour - Cancellara level. It just isn’t normal for 60kg riders to rival riders like that on courses like that - and physics says the same. One explanation brought up to explain Vingo’s TT was aero. I don’t buy that. What makes perfect sense to me is JV quickly needed a rider to fill Roglic’s shoes and got lucky.

Vingegaard's rise began before they needed a rider to fill Roglič's shoes. Also Roglič and Pogacar aren't exactly build like Cancellara or Van Aert either, yet they've also been able to beat the heavier time trialists.

Vingegaard (as we know him) was created soon after Pogacar's thermonuclear performance in PDBF in 2020. They realized they needed a mutant to beat the UAE's wonder boy. After two years of defeats last year JV finally took the lead in this arms race. What's next? Time will tell.

 

[Andy schleck]

Vingegaard (as we know him) was created soon after Pogacar's thermonuclear performance in PDBF in 2020. They realized they needed a mutant to beat the UAE's wonder boy. After two years of defeats last year JV finally took the lead in this arms race. What's next? Time will tell.

Jumbo created in laboratory a Indominus rex to beat the T- rex in july?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Vingegaard (as we know him) was created soon after Pogacar's thermonuclear performance in PDBF in 2020. They realized they needed a mutant to beat the UAE's wonder boy. After two years of defeats last year JV finally took the lead in this arms race. What's next? Time will tell.

And was Pogačar (as we know him) created when Gianetti realised Aru and Martin weren't going to win the Tour?

 

[ashhutch1997]

These are matters of opinion. But IMO Van Aert was in scintillating form at last years tour - Cancellara level. It just isn’t normal for 60kg riders to rival riders like that on courses like that - and physics says the same. One explanation brought up to explain Vingo’s TT was aero. I don’t buy that. What makes perfect sense to me is JV quickly needed a rider to fill Roglic’s shoes and got lucky.

Honestly WVA took the p*ss in last years Tour, honestly one of the most mutant performances I've ever seen imo.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

And was Pogačar (as we know him) created when Gianetti realised Aru and Martin weren't going to win the Tour?

Pogacar was imported and enhanced in 2019. Vinge was created from scratch and someone should receive a Nobel prize for this.

Jumbo created in laboratory a Indominus rex to beat the T- rex in july?

Don't get overconfident though. At the end T-rex actually beats Indominus rex with the help of people (in this case Spanish farmers: Landa and co).

 

[Cookster15]

Indominus rex looks frighteningly good at the Dauphine - tomorrow will likely confirm he is two levels above the others the best we can hope for is a grimace.

Come on Pog give us a contest next month.

 

[Aimar16]

Everyone knew he was going to win the Dauphiné easily. But so far he hasn't shown anything special, he hasn't won ITT, if the clowns had worked together yesterday they would have caught him, today he's attacked but he hasn't distanced anyone. We'll see what it does tomorrow, but so far no sign of anything thermonuclear.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Everyone knew he was going to win the Dauphiné easily. But so far he hasn't shown anything special, he hasn't won ITT, if the clowns had worked together yesterday they would have caught him, today he's attacked but he hasn't distanced anyone. We'll see what it does tomorrow, but so far no sign of anything thermonuclear.

Yesterday he climbed that hill at 2000+ m/h and distanced top climbers by 35 seconds there. This is serious stuff (comparable to Pogacar's Mende level at last Tour) and his best terrain is still ahead. Anyway, most thermonuclear performance is surely prepared for the Tour, he shouldn't be at 100 % now.

 

[Aimar16]

Yesterday he climbed that hill at 2000+ m/h and distanced top climbers by 35 seconds there. This is serious stuff (comparable to Pogacar's Mende level at last Tour) and his best terrain is still ahead. Anyway, most thermonuclear performance is surely prepared for the Tour, he shouldn't be at 100 % now.

I still believe that the gap was because those behind him were not chasing. The level of Yates or Hindley is clearly higher than finishing in the same group as Poole or Champoussin and co.

 

[Cookster15]

And was Pogačar (as we know him) created when Gianetti realised Aru and Martin weren't going to win the Tour?

TBF, the gap between Pog and Aru / Martin’s levels is the Grand Canyon.

I notice Wiki says this …

Pogačar followed his older brother Tilen in joining the Rog Ljubljana club at the age of nine

Nine years old? This suggests he showed ability long before Gianetti got hold of him at UAE. I also see his major results started back in 2015 at age 17? Vingegaard’s early results are nothing like this hence my views.