- Apr 16, 2009
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It was insane in 2020, what are you talking about? Where were you in 2020?
Since everyone is saying this is Lance all over again. Armstrong's record ITT gap at the Tour was 1:26. In an 61km ITT. So not nearly as dominant. The right comparison for sure are the career standout ITTs by Indurain and Ullrich. But relatively, the margin by Vingegaard to the 2nd was larger today.
I usually hate guilt by performance. But to explain a 5% performance gap at elite level sports is really really hard. And to add to that - the second guy has a large gap to the rest already. Equivalent is really winning the 100m by about 0.5s.
My feeling, although the ITT being very hilly today, is also that a guy like Vingegaard probably naturally shouldn't be able to go as fast on the flats as he did those past two years now.
In any way - Pogacar doesn't really fade in my opinion. He is still a great GT rider with a good 3rd week track record, but Vingegaard gets only stronger at his Tours it seems. Last year he finished his first ITT still behind Pogacar but destroyed him in the last. Now he again seems unbeatable in the 3rd week. Lets see.
But in some sense Vingegaard might really be the Armstrong to Pogacar being Ullrich. At least in GTs.
I usually hate guilt by performance. But to explain a 5% performance gap at elite level sports is really really hard. And to add to that - the second guy has a large gap to the rest already. Equivalent is really winning the 100m by about 0.5s.
My feeling, although the ITT being very hilly today, is also that a guy like Vingegaard probably naturally shouldn't be able to go as fast on the flats as he did those past two years now.
In any way - Pogacar doesn't really fade in my opinion. He is still a great GT rider with a good 3rd week track record, but Vingegaard gets only stronger at his Tours it seems. Last year he finished his first ITT still behind Pogacar but destroyed him in the last. Now he again seems unbeatable in the 3rd week. Lets see.
But in some sense Vingegaard might really be the Armstrong to Pogacar being Ullrich. At least in GTs.
To me, it never made sense that GC riders were winning flat TTs vs TT specialists just aiming for a day victory, in the third week of the TdF.
But that has always happened since Armstrong. But Armstrong was a triathlete and TT specvialist that converted to GC rider. How was Froome ever even top5 in a TT? He was a stick. Doesn't make sense.
Pogi's performance today was like that. He crushed WvA. But how is Vinegaard that much faster, including on the flat part?
Even if only GC riders take a blood bag on the rest day, and someone like WvA does does not. Even if they practice an aero position in a wind tunnel for GC riders, sure.
There have been great GC riders who never were able to get a good aero position, all their career. They always struggled with TTs because they were GC riders, not specialists.
I see someone say that Vinegaard won one TT before.
It is just not logical.
But that has always happened since Armstrong. But Armstrong was a triathlete and TT specvialist that converted to GC rider. How was Froome ever even top5 in a TT? He was a stick. Doesn't make sense.
Pogi's performance today was like that. He crushed WvA. But how is Vinegaard that much faster, including on the flat part?
Even if only GC riders take a blood bag on the rest day, and someone like WvA does does not. Even if they practice an aero position in a wind tunnel for GC riders, sure.
There have been great GC riders who never were able to get a good aero position, all their career. They always struggled with TTs because they were GC riders, not specialists.
I see someone say that Vinegaard won one TT before.
It is just not logical.
He can do 3-4 years without anyone getting too annoyed, do 5-7 years and stuff will happen.
But I think next year a new star will rise and beat both Pogacar and Vingegaard... Its time for another American to go high
- Jul 16, 2015
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Remove Vinge from the picture & Pog "won" today's ITT in the same manner as LPDBF. He caught Rodriguez over 22km ffs.
But given another 500m, Vinge would have caught both Pog & Rodriguez.
It's just crazy stuff & I don't even know wtf I'm watching anymore.
- Jun 10, 2010
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So you're mad at us for what you imagine our response would be
- Jul 10, 2012
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TBH, think it would be slightly less outrageous if the gap to WVA were smaller, all else equal. JV dropped the ball there. Plus if WVA and Vinge both crushed it you could make up some story about helmets, wind tunnels, special pillows, whatever...
I mean not to mention that Vinge didn't need to reveal his true power to this extent. He started behind Pog and could carefully keep it at a realistic 30 seconds! At some point you have to weigh the chances of losing the tour on the road against the chances of losing it off the road. The sweet spot is probably not "put in a 5 sigma performance"
Hm, disagree in the sense that Pogacar's 2020 winning ITT was nowhere close to this in terms of gap to the rest. In fact, there you actually could make the point that Roglic really visibly cracked while today Pogacar in himself had a crazy gap to the rest.
- Jul 18, 2023
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Alright.. long time lurker here. I’ve watched cycling since circa 2000 and I’m regularly reading here but never felt like making an account. But I just had to now.
What on earth was this? I’ve endured the Armstrong and Froome dominance but I’ve never seen anything as ridicolous as this. If you remove JV from the result list Pogi has done an amazing TT yet he’s 1:38 behind a mutant fish in 24K.
WVA who is one of the world’s best time triallists and clearly went full gas today is nearly 3min behind.. I hope proper questions will be asked and that this won’t be forgotten in a few days time.
What on earth was this? I’ve endured the Armstrong and Froome dominance but I’ve never seen anything as ridicolous as this. If you remove JV from the result list Pogi has done an amazing TT yet he’s 1:38 behind a mutant fish in 24K.
WVA who is one of the world’s best time triallists and clearly went full gas today is nearly 3min behind.. I hope proper questions will be asked and that this won’t be forgotten in a few days time.
- Apr 30, 2011
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But have you guys accounted for the difference modern gels make? This is the result of carbo-loading, amirite? @Mr. 64%
It did happen with Contador, but not with Froome. So I guess he gets popped only if his domination gets in the way of promoting the sport in the "appropriate" part of the world.
Whats your point?
First of all, Vingegaard had the most crazy ITT performance today that I have ever witnessed. Why would I post somwhere else?
And second, don't you think you are making a bit of a fool out of yourself claiming Pogacar gets a free pass and everyone overreacts to Vingegaard when this thread has 40 pages, and Pogacar's has 121, lol?
zlev11
BANNED
- Jan 23, 2011
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- May 27, 2022
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Go back on the clinic section of the forum from LPDBF 2020.....
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Obviously this is the most ridiculous ITT performance this century.
However, do think there's a few factors that make the result less ridiculous than it is.
1. Pogacar and Vingegaard holding hands a bit the previous 3 mountain stages, making the gap to the rest in general look less big than it is.
2. Pogacar doing a bike change - IMO that's an obvious mistake. The steep part of the climb was Pogs worst split
3. Vingegaard cornering and descending like an absolute maniac. I wouldn't be surprised if the bike change and the cornering alone account for 30 seconds
However, do think there's a few factors that make the result less ridiculous than it is.
1. Pogacar and Vingegaard holding hands a bit the previous 3 mountain stages, making the gap to the rest in general look less big than it is.
2. Pogacar doing a bike change - IMO that's an obvious mistake. The steep part of the climb was Pogs worst split
3. Vingegaard cornering and descending like an absolute maniac. I wouldn't be surprised if the bike change and the cornering alone account for 30 seconds
my french isnt good enough to make a joke about deux vitesses turn into three speeds
this is like if a basketball player dunked from 3 point line
this is how folks must have felt when Barry Bonds steps up to the plate
if you think Pogacar is juiced (rightfully so) what is this?
van aert about to quit cycling citing "losing love for the sport"
those were some of my thoughts during the TT, im quite a cynical person and i always thought cycling was more fun when people were doping but even for my maximum chaos enjoying butt this was a tiiiiiny bit too much...youknowhatimsayin...eee it is what it is...you win some you lose some...whatyougonnado...
this is like if a basketball player dunked from 3 point line
this is how folks must have felt when Barry Bonds steps up to the plate
if you think Pogacar is juiced (rightfully so) what is this?
van aert about to quit cycling citing "losing love for the sport"
those were some of my thoughts during the TT, im quite a cynical person and i always thought cycling was more fun when people were doping but even for my maximum chaos enjoying butt this was a tiiiiiny bit too much...youknowhatimsayin...eee it is what it is...you win some you lose some...whatyougonnado...
- Apr 18, 2016
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The part where he said he took it easy on the flat part had me literally laughing out loud.
- May 27, 2022
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Froome got busted tbf
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On one hand, we have people like Vingo and Pog perform at mutant levels (because tbh Pog always performs at alien levels) without anything being raised....on the other hand, people like Quintana got raided and shunned because of tramadol?
- Aug 6, 2014
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He started the race with the idea of going slower so to save energy for the latter climb. He says he held back on the flat sections so to conserve energy for the latter climb.
I have no words. I feel robbed, despite not having paid anything.
I have no words. I feel robbed, despite not having paid anything.
Best raid the Bahrain hotel again just to make sure, you know keep everyone honest, can't have anymore eastern european guys winning mountain stages in 1 week races.
- Mar 20, 2022
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WADA should allow a full transfusion from Pogacar to tomorrow's stage. We got the new Armstrong.
- May 19, 2014
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you're watching a marvel show. this is season 2 of the "Thin Thor".
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