- Apr 30, 2011
- 46,794
- 29,389
- 28,180
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,027
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Because it's clear that Vingegaard is the best uphill, he's better than anyone else at the moment. But his teammate and super domestique is the leader of the Vuelta.
Basically if he's able to just follow Ayuso/Mas, he will still be in the red jersey if Kuss drops. Then there is no wrong doing of deliberately riding your teammate out of the red jersey. If he attacks himself and drops everyone, he's clearly riding for his own success. Which is OK, but extremely selfish.
- Sep 26, 2020
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I'm going to wait until the Vuelta has finished. The most popular title might be a completely different one by then.
- Apr 14, 2021
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Why not? Some people are... If he is going to take red from Kuss while saying in the media he is not attacking his teammates and that he is doing it for the team/daugther/best friend. I don't know...
Look at some of his statements:
"I tell him to believe in it and to always sit at the front. We try to help each other as best as possible,"
"I'm not fighting my teammates. We're here to win the Vuelta a España and it looks very, very promising for us"
Maybe he is more direct behind closed doors and makes his intentions clear. But if he feeds the same *** to his team as well, I would only take "greedy" away, because they're all greedy to a certain point, I guess.
In between riders serve as an indicator of whether Roglic and Kuss could have gone faster. We can reasonably assume they could have gone at least as fast as the 3 riders in front of them, but most likely, they could have gone a lot faster. That they were behind those guys points to the fact they were not going as fast as they could. What is the reason for that - well, that's unfortunately up to our imagination...
Look, Jumbo has stated several times that they want to win the Vuelta and that all the tree big guys has the freedom to attack. You are the manipulator here.
- Aug 13, 2011
- 7,874
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Team Vingegaard needs to buddy up with Team Soler so they can fight back against these pesky Jumbo Visma and UAE teams.
- Apr 14, 2021
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I am quoting his statements, not Jumbo's... But still - they did not say their guys have freedom to attack, they only said they are racing as a team and do not care who they win Vuelta with. There's a pretty big difference between these two. In fact if anything, their actual statements imply they will not attack each other. You know - since they are racing as a team and don't care who is in front...
After yesterday, they changed their tone a bit with Niermann saying Rog and Vingegaard are not going to ride slower for Kuss - but that's already after the fact..
- Sep 17, 2012
- 1,153
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The chicken who eats
- Apr 30, 2011
- 46,794
- 29,389
- 28,180
Well, the one I voted for is finally ahead, so I would very much like for you to:
STOP THE COUNT!
- Jul 16, 2015
- 5,371
- 13,951
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- Apr 30, 2011
- 46,794
- 29,389
- 28,180
Can I tempt you with a dish of KussKuss and Froglic?
Just to add some spice to this race I really hope that we see some bad blood between Vingegaard and Roglic from here on in. Great rivalries make sport more interesting and while I have no problem in Vingegaard doing what he done yesterday (after all these riders are competitors and not out for a leisurely stroll) I'd equally have no problem as a spectator if Roglic decided to go rogue now himself. I think Kuss is somewhat non plussed by Vingegaard attacking him yesterday, either that or he is just a very good actor since he genuinely looked happy for him after the stage.
Roglic on the other hand has never really ridden for others and can't be too happy with the freedom being afforded to Vingegaard. He arguably helped win him the Tour in 2022 and he might have expected that there would be some payback for that during this Vuelta. Or maybe Roglic simply doesn't have it in the legs. It still remains to be seen how this will unfold but given that the winner will be from Jumbo, the internal team dynamics are probably the most interesting thing left in this race.
Roglic on the other hand has never really ridden for others and can't be too happy with the freedom being afforded to Vingegaard. He arguably helped win him the Tour in 2022 and he might have expected that there would be some payback for that during this Vuelta. Or maybe Roglic simply doesn't have it in the legs. It still remains to be seen how this will unfold but given that the winner will be from Jumbo, the internal team dynamics are probably the most interesting thing left in this race.
- Sep 26, 2020
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- Apr 14, 2021
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- Apr 14, 2021
- 1,593
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- 10,180
I fully expect more controversy today. Anything but a full-out war between these three from now on would surprise me TBH. The only question is - are Roglic and Kuss teaming up now?
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,027
- 9,524
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Can you imagine Vingegaard attacking, and Roglic telling Kuss to just sit in his wheel and closing the gap with Ayuso/Mas there too. Would be very funny, but not going to happen unfortunately. Roglic is too much of a professional for that.
- Apr 27, 2022
- 1,124
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Roglic still has 2 years left on his contract so that is probably the only thing currently holding him back. Yesterday may have been the tipping point though. I don't see Kuss disobeying team orders however since I just don't think he has that natural born killer instinct of the other two.
- Jun 30, 2022
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- Apr 14, 2021
- 1,593
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As much as it would be entertaining, they can't do that, I'm afraid. It was already established by the team, if we are to trust Kuss's statement: "But the important thing is that we don't chase each other down and that we do things in a cohesive way. I think we did that today."
See? No chasing! Be cohesive!
Attacking? Yes. Chasing? no no
- Mar 5, 2023
- 3,026
- 4,240
- 12,180
People in here are insane drama queens
It's been standard cycling tactics for generations, that when your last Dom is about to get cooked on the last mountain you attack with your GC rider(s).
It's also been standard cycling tactics for generations, that if you have several riders in the GC you attack first with the lowest guy in the standings.
JV has used the tactic several times before end every time been lauded for their tactical superiority.
Only this time, nobody could have expected all the other teams would just give up instantly and let the guy ride away, nobody could expect UAE (especially) with 4 riders in the group just having a complete tactical meltdown.
But blaming Vingegaard for that is insane.
Even more insane is making up sh!t, like Vingegaard breaking team orders or being "selfish", when there is zero evidence of that and actually plenty of evidence to the contrary.
It's been standard cycling tactics for generations, that when your last Dom is about to get cooked on the last mountain you attack with your GC rider(s).
It's also been standard cycling tactics for generations, that if you have several riders in the GC you attack first with the lowest guy in the standings.
JV has used the tactic several times before end every time been lauded for their tactical superiority.
Only this time, nobody could have expected all the other teams would just give up instantly and let the guy ride away, nobody could expect UAE (especially) with 4 riders in the group just having a complete tactical meltdown.
But blaming Vingegaard for that is insane.
Even more insane is making up sh!t, like Vingegaard breaking team orders or being "selfish", when there is zero evidence of that and actually plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Yeah, I don't know what gets said behind closed doors, etc. I just know, unless your a fan of Vingegaard which is to say you just want to see him win, this race isn't sitting well. It seems like Vingegaard says publicly he just wants to win a stage, just wants to attack. Then he goes up the road knowing that naturally the others in the race who are strongest (his own teammates) can't follow because they're not going to bring up the non Jumbo competition, I don't know, it just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe Jonas was the strongest this whole time but the way this has gone done doesn't sit well with me.
You're leaving out the important detail that it hasn't been standard cycling tactics for generations to have the top 3 riders in a race on the same team. Because of that, yes, people are interested in Jumbo's tactics and how Jonas rides. Like I said before, Jonas might be the strongest rider in the race, he probably is but the way it's gone down seems odd and ungratifying and like he the Tour champ took some personal freedoms in attacking when he did, knowing his strongest rivals (teammates) couldn't follow because of how racing works.People in here are insane drama queens
It's been standard cycling tactics for generations, that when your last Dom is about to get cooked on the last mountain you attack with your GC rider(s).
It's also been standard cycling tactics for generations, that if you have several riders in the GC you attack first with the lowest guy in the standings.
JV has used the tactic several times before end every time been lauded for their tactical superiority.
Only this time, nobody could have expected all the other teams would just give up instantly and let the guy ride away, nobody could expect UAE (especially) with 4 riders in the group just having a complete tactical meltdown.
But blaming Vingegaard for that is insane.
Even more insane is making up sh!t, like Vingegaard breaking team orders or being "selfish", when there is zero evidence of that and actually plenty of evidence to the contrary.
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