Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Martinstranger]

Jonas might be the strongest rider in the race, he probably is but the way it's gone down seems odd and ungratifying and like he the Tour champ took some personal freedoms in attacking when he did, knowing his strongest rivals (teammates) couldn't follow because of how racing works.

If you watch at 4,1 km to go, then Vingegaard say something in the radio and then attacked at 3,9 km to go.
Kuss/Roglic did not go with the first 2-3 riders who tried to catch Vibgegaard. If they had the legs, I’m sure they would have.
They only followed Almeida when he went with 1,1 km to go. After that Roglic tried an attack but that was pretty late.

That seems to me, that team tactics are in order and/or they do not have the legs.
But let’s see today😎

 

[Nick2413]

With all this selfish talk it’s a wonder Vingegaard didn’t emerge out of the shadows in GW to nip Wout from gifting it to Laporte at the line. And then dedicate the win to them, the ever loyal teammates.

 

[bNator]

If you watch at 4,1 km to go, then Vingegaard say something in the radio and then attacked at 3,9 km to go.
Kuss/Roglic did not go with the first 2-3 riders who tried to catch Vibgegaard. If they had the legs, I’m sure they would have.
They only followed Almeida when he went with 1,1 km to go. After that Roglic tried an attack but that was pretty late.

That seems to me, that team tactics are in order and/or they do not have the legs.
But let’s see today😎

If they do not have the legs, then their tactics are especially bad. Say they do nat have the legs and the team knows that. In that case, what Jonas did yesterday could trigger attacks left and right and since Kuss and Roglic presumably don't have the legs, they lose 2 podium spots...

 

[Captain Awesome]

I’m Danish so obviously i hope that Jonas wins it, but i also hope that if he is the strongest he will go for it. I think it’s lame af to “gift” a Grand Tour to a weaker rider just because he is your teammate and took some time in a break away.

If Kuss can follow or beat Jonas then he deserves to win, but if not then he doesn’t deserve it. The same with Roglic. If he can follow or beat Jonas then he should go for it.

 

[theyoungest]

If they do not have the legs, then their tactics are especially bad. Say they do nat have the legs and the team knows that. In that case, what Jonas did yesterday could trigger attacks left and right and since Kuss and Roglic presumably don't have the legs, they lose 2 podium spots...

So Vingegaard isn't allowed to attack because maybe his two teammates aren't good enough to follow the others? Isn't that exactly a reason why he should attack and gain more time, just to be sure?

 

[Grayguard]

Gifting a stage win, I can somewhat understand... But a GT win?

Who wants to be the person who got a GT win gifted, and didn't win because he was the strongest rider?

 

[kn0s]

Gifting a stage win, I can somewhat understand... But a GT win?

Who wants to be the person who got a GT win gifted, and didn't win because he was the strongest rider?

Óscar Pereiro

 

[bNator]

Ok since some of you guys either don't understand or pretend not to... It's not a question of not giving away a GT victory to Kuss. It's a question of exploiting the situation to his benefit where he can attack while Kuss is not allowed to defend and chase him. First it was just guessing, but later I noticed, Kuss actually confirmed this in his statement: "But the important thing is that we don't chase each other down and that we do things in a cohesive way. I think we did that today." Now the only remaining question is whether his team literally forbade him or if that is just something he feels he shouldn't do.

 

[Boehmand]

You're leaving out the important detail that it hasn't been standard cycling tactics for generations to have the top 3 riders in a race on the same team. Because of that, yes, people are interested in Jumbo's tactics and how Jonas rides. Like I said before, Jonas might be the strongest rider in the race, he probably is but the way it's gone down seems odd and ungratifying and like he the Tour champ took some personal freedoms in attacking when he did, knowing his strongest rivals (teammates) couldn't follow because of how racing works.

You too make it appear like all of this is just something Vingegaard has decided for himself - contrary to the wishes of team and teammates.

There is zero indication that is the case - but many people (you included) seem to want it to be the case for some odd reason.

 

[theyoungest]

Ok since some of you guys either don't understand or pretend not to... It's not a question of not giving away a GT victory to Kuss. It's a question of exploiting the situation to his benefit where he can attack while Kuss is not allowed to defend and chase him. First it was just guessing, but later I noticed, Kuss actually confirmed this in his statement: "But the important thing is that we don't chase each other down and that we do things in a cohesive way. I think we did that today." Now the only remaining question is whether his team literally forbade him or if that is just something he feels he shouldn't do.

This is cycling tactics 1.1. You're allowed to chase your own teammate, but only if you manage to drop the others. Roglic tried it, but he couldn't get away. So he quit. Kuss didn't even try because he simply wasn't good enough, as we saw later.

What the hell is so difficult about that? Really.

 

[Boehmand]

If they do not have the legs, then their tactics are especially bad. Say they do nat have the legs and the team knows that. In that case, what Jonas did yesterday could trigger attacks left and right and since Kuss and Roglic presumably don't have the legs, they lose 2 podium spots...

Amazing people can say it was a bad tactics, when JV actually gained a lot of time between their 3rd placed rider and 4th on GC

 

[bNator]

This is cycling tactics 1.1. You're allowed to chase your own teammate, but only if you manage to drop the others. Roglic tried it, but he couldn't get away. So he quit. Kuss didn't even try because he simply wasn't good enough, as we saw later.

What the hell is so difficult about that? Really.

Oh, now we're talking about cycling tactics 1.1 all of a sudden? How about another lesson - do not attack your teammate if he is the leader of the race? Now since Jonas violated one golden rule first, I think Sepp can afford to violate another one second.

So yeah... that's what's difficult...

 

[bNator]

Amazing people can say it was a bad tactics, when JV actually gained a lot of time between their 3rd placed rider and 4th on GC

A lot of time? Really? They gained 7 seconds. Oh, and they lost 4 between 1st and 4th...

 

[Martinstranger]

A lot of time? Really? They gained 7 seconds. Oh, and they lost 4 between 1st and 4th...

But they gained 1.01 for what seems to be their strongest rider and I believe they would like to ensure their first place, before they start taking interest in becoming 1-2-3.

Ayoso is still close, if any of the riders in front have a bad day or two. But I think we will be a lot wiser after todays stage. Ayoso need to try an attack - if he is not too afraid about loosing his fourth place.
At the moment they are trying with Soler, but I’m not sure he is strong enough.

 

[Valanga]

Gifting Angliru to Primoz, gifting Vuelta to Sepp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh well...

 

[The Clogger]

Vingegaard is such a humble and selfless rider, gifting the stage to the extremely unsympathetic and selfish rider Roglic even after he attacked the red Jersey !!!

 

[DNP-Old]

This was a perfect day for him. He inched closer to red, yet didn't do a single pull.

 

[theyoungest]

Vingegaard is such a humble and selfless rider, gifting the stage to the extremely unsympathetic and selfish rider Roglic even after he attacked the red Jersey !!!

Haha, yeah I wonder which mental gymnastics the Roglic fans will perform today

Vingegaard could easily have won today. That much is clear. He's just the strongest rider in the race. He will determine whether Kuss wins or not.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Haha, yeah I wonder which mental gymnastics the Roglic fans will perform today

Vingegaard could easily have won today. That much is clear. He's just the strongest rider in the race. He will determine whether Kuss wins or not.

I think it's hard judge how strong he actually was. I know it isn't easy to take pulls on the steep part of the climb, because you risk dropping the guy behind, but I still think he could have taken at least one in order to show both Roglič and the world that he isn't just riding for himself.

 

[kn0s]

In the Danish interview Jonas said he hoped Kuss could follow and he hopes he wins the race.

 

[DNP-Old]

In the Danish interview Jonas said he hoped Kuss could follow and he hopes he wins the race.

Brilliant move, he is playing this perfectly. He is forcing all the pressure on Roglic.

 

[Scarponi]

All this loyalty talk for the future if they let Kuss win, does Vinge really need him? The way Pogacar attacks it’s always just those two alone, vinge could do it with an “unloyal domestique”

 

[Oldermanish]

So Vingegaard isn't allowed to attack because maybe his two teammates aren't good enough to follow the others? Isn't that exactly a reason why he should attack and gain more time, just to be sure?

Yeah, NO. Clearly not and possibly the opposite.

 

[theyoungest]

I think it's hard judge how strong he actually was. I know it isn't easy to take pulls on the steep part of the climb, because you risk dropping the guy behind, but I still think he could have taken at least one in order to show both Roglič and the world that he isn't just riding for himself.

But then the world would have been furious because he's trying to ride Kuss out of the red jersey. Now he really didn't do anything all stage, only followed wheels. Other than pacing Kuss (which isn't very helpful anyway on those gradients) I don't think he could have done much more to not get the jersey.

 

[Potomac]

After he wins the Vuelta, he has to try and win the Giro, right? To hold all three titles at the same time?