Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[theyoungest]

There would have been at least two losers no matter what.

The situation is such that there never really was a proper race for the win. Because there was no competition. Put a Pogacar in there, and it's a different story. Then it's not just Jumbo who decide among themselves who will win the race, because there's actually someone they're racing against.

That's why this race was so unique, but I assume not necessarily a lot of fun for everyone involved... even though as a team you couldn't possibly do any better.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The situation is such that there never really was a proper race for the win. Because there was no competition. Put a Pogacar in there, and it's a different story. Then it's not just Jumbo who decide among themselves who will win the race, because there's actually someone they're racing against.

That's why this race was so unique, but I assume not necessarily a lot of fun for everyone involved... even though as a team you couldn't possibly do any better.

Yup. Initially Kuss was meant to be a bait for Remco, who surprisingly collapsed very early. The competition turned out to be weaker than JV expected and suddenly Kuss was on the pole-position for the win. If there was a fierce rival, like Pogacar, the level would be very high day in day out and Kuss would have more problems with maintaining the lead (also because his teammates would have to go all out more often).

 

[danielovichdk2]

Look at what you whining caused, Jonas has now been forced to hand over the victory to his domestique even though he could destroy him at any time.
What kind of competitor wants a pity win lmao. This outcome only has losers in it.

Call it a pity win again. To have a great team that pays back what is owed. That's sportsmanship which is unseen in cycling since Froome stayed with Wiggins.

Solid win by Jumbo. And remember they said up front, we don't which rider wins.

That's real teamwork. Not a win for some obnoxious egocentric childish emotional athlete.

Other teams can't do this, they don't have those characteristics in their team which is obviously playing out very well.

Great gesture by Jonas and Primoz even though they might not have agreed on a personal level.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The situation is such that there never really was a proper race for the win. Because there was no competition. Put a Pogacar in there, and it's a different story. Then it's not just Jumbo who decide among themselves who will win the race, because there's actually someone they're racing against.

That's why this race was so unique, but I assume not necessarily a lot of fun for everyone involved... even though as a team you couldn't possibly do any better.

I guess they could have tried to keep Vingegaard in third, but then allowed him to go for the KOM instead. If that had worked out, then it might have made everyone a little happier.

You could argue that things went "wrong" due to Vingegaard's mechanical in the TTT, cause Kuss might not have been allowed to be in that breakaway if he had been about 30 seconds better off beforehand. Not that Kuss not being up there would necessarily have made the fight between Vingegaard and Roglič less stressful for the team.

 

[nightowl]

The situation is such that there never really was a proper race for the win. Because there was no competition. Put a Pogacar in there, and it's a different story. Then it's not just Jumbo who decide among themselves who will win the race, because there's actually someone they're racing against.

That's why this race was so unique, but I assume not necessarily a lot of fun for everyone involved... even though as a team you couldn't possibly do any better.

Exactly! Team tactics were such that the only stage where we really had a head-to-head battle was stage 17. Kuss arguably looked strongest on Tourmalet, and he wouldn’t have lost over a minute to Vingegaard on stage 16 if it was actually very man for himself. He would very likely have had a much bigger margin before the Angliru and every chance of staying in red today.

 

[Boehmand]

But his wife does, and we all know who's the boss there..

No you don't

 

[Boehmand]

Look at what you whining caused, Jonas has now been forced to hand over the victory to his domestique even though he could destroy him at any time.
What kind of competitor wants a pity win lmao. This outcome only has losers in it.

I'm pretty sure that on the balance of things, Vingegaard prefers Kuss winning over himself.
I'm also pretty sure he doesn't give a crap what hysteric crybabies on SoMe thinks about him.

We all know Vingegaard could have taken the jersey if he wanted to.

 

[bNator]

I'm pretty sure that on the balance of things, Vingegaard prefers Kuss winning over himself.
I'm also pretty sure he doesn't give a crap what hysteric crybabies on SoMe thinks about him.

We all know Vingegaard could have taken the jersey if he wanted to.

You look like you actually believe this, so I am going to waste a bit of time and try to help you.

This is how life works: Noone on god’s green earth prefers other people winning over themselves - unless there is some other kind of benefit in it for them. For Vingegaard, this benefit is his reputation. He had to do minimum ego control to keep it intact and he could not even get that right so now he’s doing damage control with statements so basic it’s unbelievable anyone actually buys this…

 

[Blanco]

No you don't

Jonas is that you?

 

[Martinstranger]

Exactly! Team tactics were such that the only stage where we really had a head-to-head battle was stage 17. Kuss arguably looked strongest on Tourmalet, and he wouldn’t have lost over a minute to Vingegaard on stage 16 if it was actually very man for himself. He would very likely have had a much bigger margin before the Angliru and every chance of staying in red today.

Stage 16?? 8 other riders finished ahead of Kuss and 7 of them gained time. Of course he was allowed to follow the others that tried to catch Vingegaard - it would be really stupid if Jumbo told him to be beaten by so many riders on that stage. Sorry but i really do not believe that theory.

 

[Boehmand]

You look like you actually believe this, so I am going to waste a bit of time and try to help you.

This is how life works: Noone on god’s green earth prefers other people winning over themselves - unless there is some other kind of benefit in it for them. For Vingegaard, this benefit is his reputation. He had to do minimum ego control to keep it intact and he could not even get that right so now he’s doing damage control with statements so basic it’s unbelievable anyone actually buys this…

That post tells me a great deal about what kind of person you are.

 

[Boehmand]

Jonas is that you?

No, and neither are you - which is the point.

 

[bNator]

That post tells me a great deal about what kind of person you are.

If Vingegaards fan thinks I’m a bad person - I might just take that as a compliment😁

 

[Boehmand]

If Vingegaards fan thinks I’m a bad person - I might just take that as a compliment😁

I'm not a fan - of anyone.

Fandom is for little girls and teenagers

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I'm not a fan - of anyone.

Fandom is for little girls and teenagers

No, it's also for big men, small boys, old babies, young elders and everything in-between but also outside of. And you're clearly not not a fan of Vingegaard, unlike me.

 

[bNator]

I'm not a fan - of anyone.

Fandom is for little girls and teenagers

You know what is for little girls and teenagers? Believing fairytales that a rider prefers another rider winning over himself - after he has spent a week’s worth of attacking and plotting to do just the opposite…

 

[Boehmand]

No, it's also for big men, small boys, old babies, young elders and everything in-between but also outside of. And you're clearly not not a fan of Vingegaard, unlike me.

You are wrong, I'm not not not a fan of Vingegaard.

Obviously I generally prefer him to win because he is a Dane, but I have no particular emotional connection to him.

Also I prefer Kuss winning this Vuelta, I just found the Vingegaard criticism unfair and illogical so had to speak up.

 

[Boehmand]

You know what is for little girls and teenagers? Believing fairytales that a rider prefers another rider winning over himself - after he has spent a week’s worth of attacking and plotting to do just the opposite…

Funny you mention fairytales, when all the facts, all the interviews, all the press from the team, has told a story entirely contrary to the nonsense you spout, which appear to be based entirely on your (vivid) imagination.

 

[bNator]

Funny you mention fairytales, when all the facts, all the interviews, all the press from the team, has told a story entirely contrary to the nonsense you spout, which appear to be based entirely on your (vivid) imagination.

Press from the team, yes… facts. Especially when the team is in damage control mode. Why would they ever tell the prettier version of facts when in damage control mode?

Let me ask you this. Vingegaard said yesterday he is happy he didn’t get red jersey and hopes for Kuss to win. If that is really so - why didn’t he wait for Kuss when he got dropped and help him? Rogla was way behind in GC - so why didn’t he? You know why? Because it isn’t true…

I didn’t imagine Jonas attacking. He attacked. Twice. From the distance. Unprovoked and with no real competition to fight against. In Tourmalet, maybe he was waiting in the end and maybe he was just spent. In stage 16, he wasn’t waiting. These are facts. Saying he hopes for Kuss to win right afterwards? Fairytale.

 

[CyclistAbi]

At least Rogla didn't win. Now both Rogla an Jonas can work for Sepp at the Tour 2024.

Only fair.

 

[Boehmand]

Press from the team, yes… facts. Especially when the team is in damage control mode. Why would they ever tell the prettier version of facts when in damage control mode?

Let me ask you this. Vingegaard said yesterday he is happy he didn’t get red jersey and hopes for Kuss to win. If that is really so - why didn’t he wait for Kuss when he got dropped and help him? Rogla was way behind in GC - so why didn’t he? You know why? Because it isn’t true…

I didn’t imagine Jonas attacking. He attacked. Twice. From the distance. Unprovoked and with no real competition to fight against. In Tourmalet, maybe he was waiting in the end and maybe he was just spent. In stage 16, he wasn’t waiting. These are facts. Saying he hopes for Kuss to win right afterwards? Fairytale.

He probably didn't wait, because he didn't want Roglic to take the jersey. Ideally they had both slowed up a bit and let Kuss get back on, but once Roglic increased the pace and dropped Kuss, there is no way Vingegaard would stay with Kuss in that situation - but none of us truly know.

He didn't attack "unprovoked", both times he attacked because it made sense tactically, to put pressure on UAE, and both times after consulting the DS. - You are desperately trying to make it sound like he just made these decisions himself and that the attacks were directed at Kuss, which is frankly just odd.

 

[Blanco]

He probably didn't wait, because he didn't want Roglic to take the jersey. Ideally they had both slowed up a bit and let Kuss get back on, but once Roglic increased the pace and dropped Kuss, there is no way Vingegaard would stay with Kuss in that situation - but none of us truly know.

Why not?
He just pace Kuss, and he stays in red. Roglic was more than a minute down on Kuss, he can't gain that in 2km, especially if he helps.
He said he prefer Kuss wins, why he didn't helped then?
Roglic didn't went after him, but Jonas did, twice. He didn't give him an inch. Why did he went then? Roglic wasn't a main threat to red jersey, but he was.
The answer is obvious. Not to all of us though...

 

[bNator]

He probably didn't wait, because he didn't want Roglic to take the jersey. Ideally they had both slowed up a bit and let Kuss get back on, but once Roglic increased the pace and dropped Kuss, there is no way Vingegaard would stay with Kuss in that situation - but none of us truly know.

He didn't attack "unprovoked", both times he attacked because it made sense tactically, to put pressure on UAE, and both times after consulting the DS. - You are desperately trying to make it sound like he just made these decisions himself and that the attacks were directed at Kuss, which is frankly just odd.

I’m not desparately trying to do anything and I never said it was just his decision. Grischa is knee-deep in this s*** and is the most responsible.

It didn’t make sense tactically. Once you have first 3 spots in the podium by a rather handsome margin, maintaining status quo is what makes sense tactically and not risking to blow the race and possibly put your teammates in trouble. Tactically, you want to keep hard tempo, discouraging any attacks and bring the group back home.

But Vingegaard was racing Kuss and Roglic and his late damage control once he saw there’s some controversy around his actions won’t simply change that.

I won’t be going into a discussion if he had the right to attack or not, because it would be a long one. I would just like to establish he was in fact attacking them which makes his statements afterwards ridiculous. Which is why we started this exchange…

 

[Gratemans]

Noone on god’s green earth prefers other people winning over themselves

Believing fairytales that a rider prefers another rider winning over himself

Yes, some people do get a sense of fullfilment by helping someone else win. That you don't feel like that, or you lack the empathy to imagine some people have a different mindset than yourself, doesn't mean those people don't exist.

(I was one of the strongest advocates of Jumbo fighting it out on the road between themselves, by the way. But what you're posting here is obviously a reaction from a disgruntled Roglic fan. I love Roglic. I wanted him to win this Vuelta. That just shows how much your posts rubbed me the wrong way.)

I’m not desparately trying to do anything and I never said it was just his decision. Grischa is knee-deep in this s*** and is the most responsible.

Knee deep in what exactly? They're on the verge of taking the entire (THE ENTIRE) GC podium, and you're saying he's in deep manure. Now step back and think about that for a minute...

 

[nightowl]

Stage 16?? 8 other riders finished ahead of Kuss and 7 of them gained time. Of course he was allowed to follow the others that tried to catch Vingegaard - it would be really stupid if Jumbo told him to be beaten by so many riders on that stage. Sorry but i really do not believe that theory.

Yeah he got gapped in the last big sprint to the line, but that’s not his forte. They were trying to set up a Roglic counter so they stayed put but it didn’t materialize. Unless you think Finn Fisher-Black is significantly better than him on 5km @ 9%.