Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Extinction]

I think it boils down to a wholesomeness, family man strategy. Nothing more.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

So he wanted to win for his best mate on the Visma Team, Van Hoydonck, after the latter ones almost fatal heart failure and car rash, and that talks against his character?

Would you say that was a selfless way to honor his friend?

 

[Froome]

To be clear, I have no problem with him calling his wife after every win, it’s the immediacy of the calls, the centering of his family (thus himself in a way) over his competitors that I find strange. Many of them have wives and kids and mentors and loved ones, but Vingegaard is unique in the extent that he feels compelled to center them. You saw it in the Vuelta too in the stage he secured permission to go against the team plan (ride for Roglic) and instead ride for, ostensibly someone else (I can’t remember who). Again, this doesn’t mean I am against matrimony or riders having lives, etc.

No. He asked for permission by his team to attack. The team granted permission for his attack.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

No. He asked for permission by his team to attack. The team granted permission for his attack.

We've been over this before: No one would have told him no in that situation, but he didn't clear it with his teammates, which we know eventually meant it did more harm than good.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No. He asked for permission by his team to attack. The team granted permission for his attack.

Right. As I said, during the stage, "he secured permission to go against the team plan (ride for Roglic)." What does your "no” reference since we both agree there was a plan to go for Roglic in advance of the stage and he asked for and was granted permission from the team car during the stage to go for the win himself?

 

[The Clogger]

I see how you could think that, but, no, that’s not why. I also find it annoying when American sports heroes go on and on about Jesus this and Jesus that after winning a big game. Just not my stylistic preference. I am sure Vingegaard, his family, and the American athletes are all great people and I wish them the best. I just prefer when athletes focus on the arena and the competitors and teammates in there with them. Not a huge deal.

Yeah, sure. I don't really care what you think about American athletes or Jesus. Vingegaard is always the first to congratulate Pogacar when he wins stages. Plenty of examples on YouTube for you to go look at. If Vingegaard calling his family when going on the rollers after stages annoys you that much, obviously something else is to blame. You're fooling no one.

 

[The Clogger]

Right. As I said, during the stage, "he secured permission to go against the team plan (ride for Roglic)." What does your "no” reference since we both agree there was a plan to go for Roglic in advance of the stage and he asked for and was granted permission from the team car during the stage to go for the win himself?

Ha ha! The boring wheelsucker himself wanted to race for the win at the Vuelta instead of riding for GC Kuss, and now his fans are complaining he doesn't get to mountain sprint 😂😂

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yeah, sure. I don't really care what you think about American athletes or Jesus. Vingegaard is always the first to congratulate Pogacar when he wins stages. Plenty of examples on YouTube for you to go look at. If Vingegaard calling his family when going on the rollers after stages annoys you that much, obviously something else is to blame. You're fooling no one.

…

OK

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Ha ha! The boring wheelsucker himself wanted to race for the win at the Vuelta instead of riding for GC Kuss, and now his fans are complaining he doesn't get to mountain sprint 😂😂

I think you’re missing the point. And I’m missing yours because I just see a lot of vitriol and no coherence. What are you trying to say, and how does that pertain to anything I’m saying?

It’s fine if you disagree, but don’t make it out like I am a) Indicting Vingegaard as a person; b) Making this point because of bitterness about Roglic.

I simply stated a preference: I’d prefer Vingegaard just take the mask off. He’s clearly a ruthless competitor like the rest; why come up with a million reasons for why instead of the obvious, which is that he is driven to win and excel for himself and to actual use his tremendous talent?

That’s part of why Remco is so refreshing. FWIW, I think Roglic’s interviews are pretty bad but at least he shot it straight and said of course he wanted to win. No ***. You don’t sacrifice so much and ride hours a day, weigh your food, spend months away from friends and family if you aren’t deeply competitive.

 

[Kazistuta]

Would you say that was a selfless way to honor his friend?

Of course not, but I'm sure we all know by now Vingegaard is a very sensitive man, so if NVH really is his best mate, I don't think one can begrudge him wanting to try and win. After all his attack gave Visma two options to win instead of one.

 

[kn0s]

Right. As I said, during the stage, "he secured permission to go against the team plan (ride for Roglic)." What does your "no” reference since we both agree there was a plan to go for Roglic in advance of the stage and he asked for and was granted permission from the team car during the stage to go for the win himself?

This again? When the conditions for your pre agreed plan is there no more, what do you do?

They couldn't sky train to the top, there where no more domestics. Now you have to decide, Jonas and Kuss go full dom and they help Roglic with his little sprint. Or they start closing down attacks, one after the other and hope the chaos goes there way and no one gets left behind.

Now, did Jonas get permission to attack because of NVH or because it made perfect sense tactically? I don't know and don't care.

When you take "feelings" out of that stage it was a fantastic result, stage win and massive time gain for one of your captains. What would Roglic have done that was better? Gain 15-20 seconds at best? That's it if history is anything to go by.

 

[RedheadDane]

We've been over this before: No one would have told him no in that situation, but he didn't clear it with his teammates, which we know eventually meant it did more harm than good.

How? They won...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How? They won...

Oh, right, my bad then...

 

[tobydawq]

How? They won...

They lost Roglic...

 

[Gargamel35]

I find it funny and basically an act of a spineless person (to call the wife immediately after every stage). How depended can you be to call her every god damn time and tell what? "I'm sweaty as hell and a bit tired, how was your day honey? Are kids alright? Can i go to bathroom now"?
Call her from the car or from the background after the race if you must. Not the first minute you step down from the bike on the rollers while others are tying to congratulate or talk to you and cameras are still rolling.

I would also ban kids on podiums. They don't belong there and take away from celebration.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I find it funny and basically an act of a spineless person (to call the wife immediately after every stage). How depended can you be to call her every god damn time and tell what? "I'm sweaty as hell and a bit tired, how was your day honey? Are kids alright? Can i go to bathroom now"?
Call her from the car or from the background after the race if you must. Not the first minute you step down from the bike on the rollers while others are tying to congratulate or talk to you and cameras are still rolling.

I would also ban kids on podiums. They don't belong there and take away from celebration.

Some would just call it a ritual between him and his closest family. It's not much different from when Pogačar sticks his hair through his helmet or Zoe Bäckstedt gives a thumbs up to to her cousin everytime she crosses the line in a CX race.

 

[Netserk]

I find it funny and basically an act of a spineless person (to call the wife immediately after every stage). How depended can you be to call her every god damn time and tell what? "I'm sweaty as hell and a bit tired, how was your day honey? Are kids alright? Can i go to bathroom now"?
Call her from the car or from the background after the race if you must. Not the first minute you step down from the bike on the rollers while others are tying to congratulate or talk to you and cameras are still rolling.

I would also ban kids on podiums. They don't belong there and take away from celebration.

The problem is that riders are filmed once the race is over. Let them be, then it doesn't matter what the hell they do.

 

[Froome]

They are more concerned about what Vingegaard does after the stage than what he does during the stage. I don't care if before or after the stage he calls his wife instead of doing backflips to the pool, or telling jokes during the flash interview.

I care about him giving entertaining and legendary performances.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I see you already started, time to involve Remco too. And what was Remco doing, when the team gave permission to Jonas for an attack, although prior to the stage the decision was made to support Roglič.

Where was Remco in all of this?

On a more serious note. JV started (heavily) prioritizing Jonas in the 2024 season, Rogla had two options, make terms with it and abandon all hopes to ever win the Tour, or to do something about it and he did just that.

So basically it was Rogličes decision that was maturing for a while and it was JV decision too. And Bora in my opinion made the right choice too. Currently i don't believe they had a Tour winner in their team, just yet. Now they have that and i am sure that team as a whole will evolve. Likely already in top 3 entering 2024 season. We'll see. Ultimately the dilemma is now gone, on who to push forwards at the Tour 2024.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for Jonases relationship with his wife, it's up to them. We really don't have much business here.

As for kids on the podium, they replaced podium girls. As that apparently was too sexists, or some crazy thing like that.

Now the podium is family friendly.

 

[Froome]

I see you already started, time to involve Remco too. And what was Remco doing, when the team gave permission to Jonas for an attack, although prior to the stage the decision was made to support Roglič.

Where was Remco in all of this?

On a more serious note. JV started (heavily) prioritizing Jonas in the 2024 season, Rogla had two options, make terms with it and abandon all hopes to ever win the Tour, or to do something about it and he did just that.

So basically it was Rogličes decision that was maturing for a while and it was JV decision too. And Bora in my opinion made the right choice too. Currently i don't believe they had a Tour winner in their team, just yet. Now they have that and i am sure that team as a whole will evolve. Likely already in top 3 entering 2024 season. We'll see. Ultimately the dilemma is now gone, on who to push forwards at the Tour 2024.

Visma had no more domestiques when Vingegaard attacked, vallter was on the limit.

Certainly you didn't expect that the red jersey Kuss and the 2x Tour france winner Vingegaard would be the domestiques for Roglic doing his "roglstomp" in the last 500 m.

That discussion already happened here.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Froome

Who knows, maybe indeed now Jonas can still do some work for Rogla, just the way you have described it, at Visma that was not possible any more, or yes, Jonas can indeed simply ride away. We'll see.

But that is besides the point, where was Remco in all of this?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Cyclistabi can you please stop posting nonsense

 

[CyclistAbi]

Cyclistabi can you please stop posting nonsense

You learn in life that sometimes you must fight nonsense with nonsense. So no. Will result to nonsense whenever appropriate.

 

[pastronef]

@CyclistAbi I wish you were here in the Sky thread 2013-2018. would have been incredible. keep going