Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Mountain Sprinter

[Froome]

World tour races

Tirreno adriatico
Vuelta Catalunya
Iztulia basque country
E3 saxo classic
Gent wevelgem in flanders
Giro d'italia
Criterium dauphine
Tour france
La vuelta

Jumbo won all of this, naturally they were the best team in 2023.

 

[theyoungest]

If you think the season is all GT then of course you would think jumbo was the best team

The reason UAE topped the UCI ranking is that they specifically aimed for it, trying to get lots of points in races like Montreal that Jumbo didn't really care about. If they could have won 3 GTs, they'd gladly have given up that top spot on the ranking.

 

[scribers]

So not caring is an award? It's simple math. You can parse out points if you want to quibble, but showing up and placing is something UAE did.

 

[scribers]

World tour races

Tirreno adriatico
Vuelta Catalunya
Iztulia basque country
E3 saxo classic
Gent wevelgem in flanders
Giro d'italia
Criterium dauphine
Tour france
La vuelta

Jumbo won all of this, naturally they were the best team in 2023.

That's one hell of a data set you are working there. Maybe you should be hired by the UCI

 

[bNator]

Christmas bonus for the Vingegaard fans out there:

https://lanternerouge.com/2023/12/23/the-top-10-climbing-performances-of-2023/

I like the way he titles:
"Tadej Pogacar and Jonas Vingegaard on Col du Tourmalet and Cauterets"

 

[acm]

AFAIK he used to work for JV yes. Note that i don't blame them. I just had some answers and they got answered, for me. On top of that and hopefully we will have Hans, affiliated with Bora, too. As my go to YT channel, for some bed time stories.

What is the name of this youtube channel?

 

[CyclistAbi]

What is the name of this youtube channel?

The one affiliated with Bora praising Rogla? Beats me. Haven't found it yet. Lets hope something emerges once the season starts.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The one affiliated with Bora praising Rogla? Beats me. Haven't found it yet. Lets hope something emerges once the season starts.

I think you should consider creating it. Who else is better qualified?

Maybe you could make a video in which a young Roglič's starts to throw plates around the kitchen, but then quickly realises it's simply too difficult for him, and that he'll be better off giving ski jumping a go instead.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think you should consider creating it. Who else is better qualified?

Jonas?

 

[scribers]

There needs to be a skeletor emote in this forum software

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Jonas?

Nah, he's famously not good with computers.

 

[Boehmand]

If you think the season is all GT then of course you would think jumbo was the best team

Edit:

Made a stupid error, so here are the corrects maths:

The WT in 2023 broke down like this:

1 day races: 20 race days (12.35 %)
1 week races: 79 race days (48.77 %)
GTs: 63 race days (38.88 %)

Total: 162

- I'm quite surprised how little 1 day races account for, my feeling was it was quite a bit more.

 

[Sciatic]

The WT in 2023 broke down like this:

1 day races: 20 race days (16.66 %)
1 week races: 79 race days (65.84 %)
GTs: 21 race days (17.50 %)

Total: 120

Interesting. Those figures minimize the importance of one-day races since there are many prominent one-day races that most teams participate in and riders want to win, but don’t have WT status. Conversely there aren’t really other 3-week tours without WT status to which teams commit time & budget. So the percentage of the total that GT race-days represent would be even lower.

 

[AmRacer]

The WT in 2023 broke down like this:

1 day races: 20 race days (16.66 %)
1 week races: 79 race days (65.84 %)
GTs: 21 race days (17.50 %)

Total: 120

21*3=?

 

[scribers]

I was told there would be no math

 

[Mayomaniac]

I was told there would be no math

 

[Hugh Januss]

21*3=?

I wondered about that too. Maybe it's the new math? Or maybe he didn't count sprint stages.

 

[tobydawq]

The WT in 2023 broke down like this:

1 day races: 20 race days (16.66 %)
1 week races: 79 race days (65.84 %)
GTs: 21 race days (17.50 %)

Total: 120

Lol.

 

[tobydawq]

Interesting. Those figures minimize the importance of one-day races since there are many prominent one-day races that most teams participate in and riders want to win, but don’t have WT status. Conversely there aren’t really other 3-week tours without WT status to which teams commit time & budget. So the percentage of the total that GT race-days represent would be even lower.

Those figures also minimise the importance of Grand Tours because they're wrong and only count one Grand Tour instead of three.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Those figures also minimise the importance of Grand Tours because they're wrong and only count one Grand Tour instead of three.

Details, details.

 

[Panda Claws]

1 day races: 20 (57,14%)
1 week races: 12 (34.29%)
GTs: 3 (8,57%)

Total: 35

 

[bNator]

I’m gonna be boring again and say you need to refer to the UCI ranking if you want to rank and compare the importance of each event. But every time one suggests something like that, sooner or (seldom)later a wiseass arrives to explain how insanely ridiculous it is to stick to the only serious attempt at establishing objective criteria and how we should all acknowledge their own personal preferences as the universal truth…

 

[Boehmand]

21*3=?

Obviously - must have been tired when I wrote that

 

[Squire]

I’m gonna be boring again and say you need to refer to the UCI ranking if you want to rank and compare the importance of each event. But every time one suggests something like that, sooner or (seldom)later a wiseass arrives to explain how insanely ridiculous it is to stick to the only serious attempt at establishing objective criteria and how we should all acknowledge their own personal preferences as the universal truth…

I don't think anyone's disputing that UAE topped the UCI rankings or saying that they didn't deserve to. But 'best team' and the team on top of the UCI rankings aren't necessarily the same thing. For a rather extreme example, would you say that a cross country skier who wins all the gold medals in the World championship and the Olympics, wins half the World cup races but doesn't show up to the other half is a worse skier than the one who wins the overall World cup by showing up to all races?

 

[bNator]

I don't think anyone's disputing that UAE topped the UCI rankings or saying that they didn't deserve to. But 'best team' and the team on top of the UCI rankings aren't necessarily the same thing. For a rather extreme example, would you say that a cross country skier who wins all the gold medals in the World championship and the Olympics, wins half the World cup races but doesn't show up to the other half is a worse skier than the one who wins the overall World cup by showing up to all races?

Sure you can disregard UCI rankings and say TJV was better than UAE (which it was in my opinion as well). The only problem is when folks try and invent some "objective" criteria, some kind of math which would cover a specific scenario but fail to realise you would need to test every model against all the other possible circumstances and make sure it works best in average for all scenarios. Just because we have a feeling TJV was better than UAE it doesn't mean UCI ranking system is necessarily bad or misconfigured - it's just an outlier which gets statistically compensated over time.

So yes, everyone can say TJV was better but you're going to have a hard time proving that mathematically...