Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[HappyCycling]

Just saw now the finish of the stage. I expected more of him today, he wasn't able to do his normal numbers on this min climbing effort, he is not at 100% yet.

Nevertheless, it's not over, and a lot of will happen until Nice.

It's wrong to celebrate ahead of time. 2 minutes can disappear in the snap of a finger, but a lot of people didn't learn with what happened in the last years.

Nope - Jonas did some of his best numbers today. Simply got beaten by the better man.

 

[Cookster15]

Something else to consider is that we haven't seen them having to go all out two days in a row in this race yet, so there is a chance that Vingegaard could be stronger/less weaker than Pogačar tomorrow. However he might not find out about that before Pogačar makes a move, and then it could be too late to take advantage of it. We'll see.

Maybe. But with the interrupted prep he's had I doubt it. People forget when Vingegaard won the last two Tours he had a perfect season. Not this time. He was in hospital with a punctured lung not that long ago.

 

[RedheadDane]

Exaclty now that Pogacar isnt ridding with a fractured wrist the narrative can longer even be entertained not that it ever needed to be explained to anyone who was neutral but yeah still. Hardly surprise to anyone that Pogacar is better than 2023 levels now that he isnt riding with a fractured wrist, who woulda thougt

I know it's not your intention, but it kinda comes across as if you're claiming Pogacar had a fractured wrist during the Tour last year.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I know it's not your intention, but it kinda comes across as if you're claiming Pogacar had a fractured wrist during the Tour last year.

Not uncommon...

If Pogi loses time today this Tour is done. I think the Vingebot got the lastest software update on Monday. The way he caught Pogi on Col de Font de Cere was scary, especially for a guy with a punctered lung and fractured ribs 🙄

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He sounded a bit incredulous at Pogi's level after the finish.

If so, seems interesting, Pog was rather stunned by JV's level after Stage 11.

 

[ppanther92]

Fabian Wegmann said in the ARD Tour podcast that today doesn't change anything, since this irregular climb suited Pogacar way more and Vingegaard will still win it in the steady long Alps climbs.

I don't agree but if a Vingegaard fan needs positive vibes - listen to Fabian Wegmann

 

[jmdirt]

Solid ride today, keep fighting JV!

 

[tobydawq]

Fabian Wegmann said in the ARD Tour podcast that today doesn't change anything, since this irregular climb suited Pogacar way more and Vingegaard will still win it in the steady long Alps climbs.

I don't agree but if a Vingegaard fan needs positive vibes - listen to Fabian Wegmann

Danish pundits also keep clinging to that straw.

 

[YavorD]

Fabian Wegmann said in the ARD Tour podcast that today doesn't change anything, since this irregular climb suited Pogacar way more and Vingegaard will still win it in the steady long Alps climbs.

I don't agree but if a Vingegaard fan needs positive vibes - listen to Fabian Wegmann

Well we'll get some answers already tomorrow.
It doesn't get much more regular and steep after tomorrow.

 

[Hugh Januss]

..........

M for mou?

 

[dazaau]

I'm a little surprised at some of the surprise being expressed in here that Jonas couldn't keep pace with pogacar, or that he isn't "100%". According to what we have heard Pog is in the best shape he has probably ever been in and apparently added 15w to his ftp and lost 1.5kg compared to the giro.

Jonas was in ICU 12 weeks ago and had 6 weeks proper training.

Honestly if Jonas was smashing Pog I don't know how anyone would be able to explain it. As it is he is doing amazing.

 

[snipeheem]

Just saw now the finish of the stage. I expected more of him today, he wasn't able to do his normal numbers on this min climbing effort, he is not at 100% yet.

Nevertheless, it's not over, and a lot of will happen until Nice.

It's wrong to celebrate ahead of time. 2 minutes can disappear in the snap of a finger, but a lot of people didn't learn with what happened in the last years.

He was pushing great numbers today, goat was just too strong for him

 

[stekelegel]

I think it’s over for this year. When he won, he didn’t loose this amount of time. Blunted the attacks and waited for the mistake on Galibier in 2022, or for Pog just not being 100% in 23; Looking forward for Remco to finish this tour also strong and then having them all at 100% in 2025.

 

[Tonton]

I think it’s over for this year. When he won, he didn’t loose this amount of time. Blunted the attacks and waited for the mistake on Galibier in 2022, or for Pog just not being 100% in 23; Looking forward for Remco to finish this tour also strong and then having them all at 100% in 2025.

...so you are packing up? See you next year? No way. Jonas Vingegaard is the two-time defending champion, he didn't come to the Tour hoping not to win it. He still believes...

Injury, recovery, let's all stop the bullsh': again, Vingo would have not showed up if he thought that he would be beaten, dominated. There's nothing wrong with him. But he's a Sky-less Froome, and that's what hurts. The week 3 surge may not be there without a team that dictates the tempo and sets things up. He doesn't have that team...

Vingo beat Pog once. Can he do it twice? Tomorrow is huge for Jonas: he can't lose more time. Rest day will be welcome.

I'm Jonas, I beat that dude twice for the Tour win, the problem is that he may not make a stupid mistake, my team is not that good, yikes. And I'm running out of real estate: la Couillole is not enough. What's before? Isola is not steep enough. Barcelonnette sucks, Super-Devoluy maybe. I can't lose more time tomorrow.

 

[Oldermanish]

Well we'll get some answers already tomorrow.
It doesn't get much more regular and steep after tomorrow.

Watch the last 1 km....Jonas looked limited out and gave up almost 20 seconds in the last 800m. It's not residual problems from his injury other than he trained to the level he could, post injury and had no rest. If it gets better for him it would likely be because it got worse for others like Tadej.
Will that happen? I doesn't look like it.

 

[Rackham]

The problem with scenarios where Vingegaard makes a comeback in this Tour & wins after dropping a watts bomb like in Combloux last year is the fact he was already showing signs of cancelling out Pog's attacks & nullifying him, namely on Joux Plane. Pog looked cooked after that stage.

Yesterday meanwhile was the most stereotypical classic Tour stage we've had with the Tourmalet & then the final HC climb. It was literally an expose of the relative strength of each rider. There was no hiding, no real tactics, just watts versus watts.

And Pog was much better. 39 seconds was much more than the 24 on Cauterets last year, for example (& that was easily explained by Vingegaard having gone too deep in his attack on the Tourmalet whereas yesterday he did nothing until the final battle).

 

[RedheadDane]

...so you are packing up? See you next year? No way. Jonas Vingegaard is the two-time defending champion, he didn't come to the Tour hoping not to win it. He still believes...

Of course not, that would be weird.
I definitely don't think he came to the Tour not hoping to win it. However, he can be hoping to win - and doing the best he can to actively reach that goal - while fully aware that it's entirely possible that he just won't.

 

[Bolder]

The problem with scenarios where Vingegaard makes a comeback in this Tour & wins after dropping a watts bomb like in Combloux last year is the fact he was already showing signs of cancelling out Pog's attacks & nullifying him, namely on Joux Plane. Pog looked cooked after that stage.

Yesterday meanwhile was the most stereotypical classic Tour stage we've had with the Tourmalet & then the final HC climb. It was literally an expose of the relative strength of each rider. There was no hiding, no real tactics, just watts versus watts.

And Pog was much better. 39 seconds was much more than the 24 on Cauterets last year, for example (& that was easily explained by Vingegaard having gone too deep in his attack on the Tourmalet whereas yesterday he did nothing until the final battle).

Yes, that's how it looks to me. And yesterday he had to ride at UAE's pace, too, which maybe wasn't ideal. Regardless, Pog was just straight up stronger and was pulling away. I don't think there's another way to spin it.

I said after the first rest day that the only way Jonas can win is if Pog cracks, and still no sign of that. Pog had a Rolls-Royce ride yesterday till his attack thanks to his team, and that gave him the luxury to attack when and where he wanted. Whereas Vingegaard was forced into defense mode on a day when he probably wanted to attack.

 

[Heston]

Of course he hoped to win the Tour. But it just isnt realistic with the lung injury clearly affecting his long efforts on long climbs.

At Adet and Galibier he looked dead at the top. He has never looked lioe that in the past 3 years.

Its quite obvious he is a far bit away from being 100 % and it's not realistic for him to be at this best before this Tour is over.

 

[Heston]

he never faced pogacar without injury or something. Vingegaards numbers were fine yesterday did you watch his interview? He did the same numbers he did last year

Just pogacar is 100% now and thats different. Who woulda thought.

What injury do you think Pogacar had in 2022?

 

[stekelegel]

Beat a 100% fit Pog in 2022 but that I don’t think Pog was as focused on winning the tour that year vs now. Took it a bit for granted and got ambushed on Galibier. Jumbo visma was also a lot stronger in 22-23.

 

[skippo12]

Of course he hoped to win the Tour. But it just isnt realistic with the lung injury clearly affecting his long efforts on long climbs.

At Adet and Galibier he looked dead at the top. He has never looked lioe that in the past 3 years.

Its quite obvious he is a far bit away from being 100 % and it's not realistic for him to be at this best before this Tour is over.

100% compared to what? His 2023 level? Based on the w/kg calculations from stage 11 he is just as good as last year.
Yesterday Vingegaard was really strong as well. Pogacar simply had one of the biggest freak climbing performances in history (a little bit like Vingegaards TT last year).

Question is if a healthy Vingegaard could have improved his level compared to 2023. In my opinion that's the most likely scenario. No reason to believe that Pogacar is the only one that is still getting better.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

100% compared to what? His 2023 level? Based on the w/kg calculations from stage 11 he is just as good as last year.
Yesterday Vingegaard was really strong as well. Pogacar simply had one of the biggest freak climbing performances in history (a little bit like Vingegaards TT last year).

Question is if a healthy Vingegaard could have improved his level compared to 2023. In my opinion that's the most likely scenario. No reason to believe that Pogacar is the only one that is still getting better.

Yeah, since both or them (+ the peloton as whole) seem to improve every year/over time, I don't think it's ridiculous to claim he would/could have been even better. So if/when he ends up losing this year, it won't be a definitive sign he won't be able to beat an uninjured Pogačar ever again.

 

[Froome]

100% compared to what? His 2023 level? Based on the w/kg calculations from stage 11 he is just as good as last year.
Yesterday Vingegaard was really strong as well. Pogacar simply had one of the biggest freak climbing performances in history (a little bit like Vingegaards TT last year).

Question is if a healthy Vingegaard could have improved his level compared to 2023. In my opinion that's the most likely scenario. No reason to believe that Pogacar is the only one that is still getting better.

Vingegaard was yesterday in the shape of March (monte petrano, 6.4/6.5 w/kg in 25 min). He is not in top shape, not even in the shape of Marie blanque, where he did almost 7 w/kg in 21 minutes, who would be enough to not lose time tomorrow.

Besides that, everybody improves a little year by year, and that didn’t happened until yesterday.

He wasn't bad yesterday, but the shape of March is not enough.

 

[Brullnux]

To the contrary of what some were saying, the crash's effects have been felt as the race wore on rather than at the very start of the race.

McEwen actually said this, so fair play to him, and I want to say @Red Rick did too?