Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Mountain Sprinter

[Red Rick]

He clearly doesn't have it on the long efforts.

But let's talk as if he's totally gonna take back 2 minutes on the long efforts

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

No, but he was almost 2 minutes behind at that point while now he's leading by that.

Fair, but if the roles were reversed like this year do you think a similar outcome would occur is the question. I’m just trying to be an optimist for Jonas so I get if I sound a little loony.

 

[Heston]

Hes just not at top shape because of the injuries. Cannot sustain long efforts like the last 2 years.

He is riding for 2nd place now, which is still good considering the crash.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Fair, but if the roles were reversed like this year do you think a similar outcome would occur is the question.

There would definitely have been a difference in confidence levels between the two and their teams ahead of that stage. Whether that would have been enough for Pogačar to avoid a complete disaster, I obviously can't say.

 

[slim charles]

Hes just not at top shape because of the injuries. Cannot sustain long efforts like the last 2 years.

He is riding for 2nd place now, which is still good considering the crash.

I am sure he will still try to win, but yes, it wasn't really realistic to expect he would be at the same level after everything. Still a long way to go, but to be honest, it is easier to imagine he will lose more time rather than end up winning. But who knows, it wouldn't be unimaginable for Pogacar to have a bad day and everything turns around once more.

 

[ppanther92]

I lean towards thinking similar things would have happened today anyway but what Visma did yesterday was pretty braindead.

That said, and all team discussions aside, it seems Vingegaard actually lacks on the longer efforts after the injury.

 

[James M]

I lean towards thinking similar things would have happened today anyway but what Visma did yesterday was pretty braindead.

That said, and all team discussions aside, it seems Vingegaard actually lacks on the longer efforts after the injury.

Or pogacar is just better than he was in 2023 when he rode with a broken wrist. Might be wild to think but I think so.

 

[Nick2413]

We still haven’t seen a really long effort. Tomorrow and Bonette/Isola will be far more telling. Still hasn’t been much altitude and today was cold, just not hard enough conditions to know how the next week will go.

 

[gregrowlerson]

He's still clearly the second strongest rider in the race, but it won't be easy to win now. His team is not good enough either, it seems.

I don't really understand why he didn't glue himself to Pogačar's wheel before the attack. Not that it would have made much difference, but it still wasn't smart.

Nice new thread title

 

[tretiak]

Jonas didn't get any help from the motorcycle that Tadej got.

 

[ppanther92]

Or pogacar is just better than he was in 2023 when he rode with a broken wrist. Might be wild to think but I think so.

Agree, but if the injury argument is brought up, surely its valid for Vingegaard as well, no? Probably actually both things had to come together anyway - after all Vingegaard won the last two years with a huge margin.

 

[tobydawq]

He clearly doesn't have it on the long efforts.

But let's talk as if he's totally gonna take back 2 minutes on the long efforts

Week three, heat, sun, hard marathon racing, bla bla bla.

He doesn't have a chance now.

 

[James M]

Agree, but if the injury argument is brought up, surely its valid for Vingegaard as well, no? Probably actually both things had to come together anyway - after all Vingegaard won the last two years with a huge margin.

I wont deny that touched on it with someone else but im not sure how impacted he is now I think little since no fracture etc think it doesnt impact him at all now! But his preperation was impacted ofcourse it was and that also reflects to some degree this indeed saying anything else wouldnt be objective. (I just dont know how much though)

But I read from the same vingegaard people so many times that they only use 2023 as reference as why he would beat him today or tomorrow in the long mountains this year thats just wild to me as its not relevant at all when we know he rode with a fractured wrist to me atleast thats just yeah but no bad blood. Its so wild when he has dropped him whenever he wanted and everyone else this year with ease it seems. That was all I meant.

 

[kn0s]

Or pogacar is just better than he was in 2023 when he rode with a broken wrist. Might be wild to think but I think so.

When people talk about their rivalry and history. They include pogi getting dropped like a stone on Ventoux in 21, getting completely dominated in 22. This wrist you like so much is a small part of the story.

 

[Medvind]

We still haven’t seen a really long effort. Tomorrow and Bonette/Isola will be far more telling. Still hasn’t been much altitude and today was cold, just not hard enough conditions to know how the next week will go.

Hard to see a turnaround tomorrow, didn't look that good in the end. If it will happen more likely it will be on Bonette/Isola. But I still wonder if he has the team to make it really hard, wasn't impressed today.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The title is wrong, the mountain sprinter is clearly the other guy.

Vingegaard lacks the acceleration (more than usual) after his injury and his descending is not as good at it used too (understandable after that crash).

 

[James M]

When people talk about their rivalry and history. They include pogi getting dropped like a stone on Ventoux in 21, getting completely dominated in 22. This wrist you like so much is a small part of the story.

Im not gonne lie to you in 2021 I didnt watch the stages. Know pogacar won easy. 2022 I know he beat himself i heard bruynel and other people say it and plenty of other neutral people say that including jumbo people even and 2023 is not relevant at all.

Keep in mind sometimes fresh eyes also is kinda nice to things like this (with history as you said)

Things like this which often impacts alot of preference/emotions fresh eyes doesnt need to be bad. I like you though your somewhat objective and know your stuff you might lean certain way of who you support but that I have no idea. That beeing said I know less about cycling than you im not trying to be anything im not from this and would Vingegaard crush pogacar today I wouldnt have any problems with saying I was wrong. Its not that deep.

 

[Heston]

But I read from the same vingegaard people so many times that they only use 2023 as reference

Thats not true though. There is also the 2022 Tour and Ventoux 2021 to showcase that Vinge is clearly better on long efforts uphill in the Tour.

But I agree that it makes no sense to think Vinge will win tomorrow when he is clearly far from top shape.

 

[Medvind]

Hindsight, maybe it wasn't so smart to ride so hard for van Aert yesterday. Maybe they overestimated Vinge's ability to recover given his lack of prep. He looked a bit cooked in the end today.

 

[Heston]

Hindsight, maybe it wasn't so smart to ride so hard for van Aert yesterday. Maybe they overestimated Vinge's ability to recover given his lack of prep. He looked a bit cooked in the end today.

That didnt really matter in the end today when it was everyone for themselves.

I dont think Visma ever really expected Vinge to win the Tour given the injury. But of course they had some hope that maybe it could happen, which we now know it cant.

 

[SHAD0W93]

At least now we can see if Vingegaard truly can grow into the third week and use his better “recovery”. Still looking great from where he came from but this could be the cracks in the armor showing.

 

[Medvind]

Im not gonne lie to you in 2021 I didnt watch the stages. Know pogacar won easy. 2022 I know he beat himself i heard bruynel and other people say it and plenty of other neutral people say that including jumbo people even and 2023 is not relevant at all.

Keep in mind sometimes fresh eyes also is kinda nice to things like this (with history as you said)

Things like this which often impacts alot of preference/emotions fresh eyes doesnt need to be bad. I like you though your somewhat objective and know your stuff you might lean certain way of who you support but that I have no idea.

Beat himself... always an excuse. We get it, if everything is perfect Pog always win over Vinge.
I my eyes Vinge was just stronger than Pog on Hautacam 2022. Why is that so hard to confess that Vinge might acutally be better on certain occassions? I have no problem saying when Pog is stronger than Vinge, like on Puy de Dome last year.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Nice new thread title

I wasn't sure how people would react to this new alien concept of changing a thread title, so I'm happy to learn that it's appreciated 😅

 

[James M]

Beat himself... always an excuse. We get it, if everything is perfect Pog always win over Vinge.
I my eyes Vinge was just stronger than Pog on Hautacam 2022. Why is that so hard to confess that Vinge might acutally be better on certain occassions? I have no problem saying when Pog is stronger than Vinge, like on Puy de Dome last year.

Keep in mind im not saying that I refer to neutral people saying that I dont claim anything regarding 2022. I simply since I dont know rather choose to listen to people who are neutral there I dont know never claimed it either but that alot of profil in cycling which are neutral are saying that I tend to lean that way of thinking without claiming. I find that most logical for me when even teammates on Jumbo said it, think it was Nathan.
Again fresh eyes im not invested in this, well now I am kinda but not really I think you know what im saying.

Its not hard to do I think Vingegaard is much better than Pogacar in extreme heat 100%. But I would like to see him beat him in any terrain when its no excuse VALID excuse keep in mind if thats the case I dont think you think I wouldnt submit to that. Think you know what I mean.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I wasn't sure how people would react to this new alien concept of changing a thread title, so I'm happy to learn that it's appreciated 😅

Paying homage to a fallen former teammate.