Jonathan Tiernan-Locke Discussion Thread

[manafana]

I see he publicly said he finds the training they set for him really diffcult to follow. Not sure how long Sky will keep him, maybe a better fit for IAM, Orica or Garmin.

 

[greenedge]

Garmin have Slagter and Martin- no need for JTL.

 

[phanatic]

He didn't even mention doing the tour of Britain, which is disappointing. Hopefully from now on they will adapt his training program to suit his style.
I don't think he is a great domestique, so like he said, holding power output for long periods doesn't suit him so shouldnt be forced on him. Puncheurs like him should conserve energy in the peleton and then use a short punch of power to come through at the end. This inability to tailor their coaching approach to puncheurs probably also explains why EBH hasn't reached his potential.

Bolded the part I was thinking. It might also explain why Rogers responded so well to their training, as a strong climber with an excellent TT. I wish they could get Fabian, Chavanel and T. Martin. Then JTL could concentrate on LBL, like he should.

 

[JRanton]

Very revealing interview with JTL explaining what's gone wrong:

http://rouleurmagazine.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/jtl-one-year-on/

Some parts:

Tiernan-Locke reckons the turning point was his second block at Sky’s training Majorcan camp in mid-January, 2013. Increasingly tired and struggling with recovery, he felt bad in the first few races. His self-assurance ebbed away. Even the act of training became a battle with numbers and negativity.

“I started not enjoying things… I was like a slave to this SRM box. I knew what I had to do in training, but I knew it recorded everything so the coach would know if I’d done it.

“Even if I felt not good enough to do it, I was like ‘I’ve got to’. I’d do half the session, but I couldn’t quite finish it off or I didn’t hit the power numbers [written on the stem] or whatever. Or I’d come home like: Ohhh,” he sighs, “demoralised – like what am I gonna say?”

A bad day of training would inform other parts of his life. He’d make poor nutrition choices too. “Come home and eat a cake,” as he puts it.

At the Ardennes Classics, he was overweight, then yo-yo dieted for the Bayern Rundfahrt. In losing six kilos, Locke reached lean race weight but compromised his power.

Summer was “a blur of ****”. He had problems with motivation. At a pre-Vuelta training camp, Tiernan-Locke had it out with coach Shaun Stephens.

“‘Look, I don’t need to train, that’s the last thing I need right now. This has gone from bad to worse since training camp. I’ve got no morale, no form, I feel awful every time I turn the pedals, I can’t even do recovery rides, my legs fill up with lactic straight away’,” he says, giving the gist of the conversation.

“My confidence is getting there. I’m not deluding myself, I’m gonna need a result.”

He is currently without a coach, listening to his own body going into his second year with Team Sky.

“Everyone around me has noticed I’m just enjoying riding my bike again.”

 

[Ferminal]

"Locke reached lean race weight but compromised his power."

?????

 

[Pippo_San]

"Locke reached lean race weight but compromised his power."

?????

Wrong diets or wrong nutritional choices cause this, randomly happens to me too, that however should never ever happen on a Pro Team, especially in a team like Sky that makes "marginal gains" a phil(fool?)osophy.

Oh well. Anyway don't worry JTL my boy, once you find again your training ways you can still go and win a WTF-number of TdFs and LBLs. At least that's what Papy Horner's lesson taught us right?

 

[argyllflyer]

Very revealing interview with JTL explaining what's gone wrong:

(snip)

He certainly looked more like last year's JTL in the Canadian races - he finished one and was involved going into the latter stages, and looked visible in the other before his crash. That he has also made the Worlds selection speaks volumes.

He's a maverick though, but by the looks of it Sky are prepared to embrace that for the second/last year of his contract. JTL: Jon Trains 'Lone.

 

[maltiv]

Wrong diets or wrong nutritional choices cause this, randomly happens to me too, that however should never ever happen on a Pro Team, especially in a team like Sky that makes "marginal gains" a phil(fool?)osophy.

What's most ridiculous is that the "experts" on Sky kept on pushing him after it was so obvious that he was completely overtrained. What the **** were they thinking?

It's not like you have to be a swimming expert or whatever to realize that when a guy's power is going down the more he trains then you should reduce the intensity...and this is not only for JTL, but counts for 90% of the team as well. Due to training hard going into big objectives many of the guys on the team has ended up being in their worst shape of the entire season as they enter their biggest goal. EBH for example was producing much better numbers after having a break after the classics, then he was during the classics or before TDF. The same was probably the case with Henao, who has been pretty good all year except from the Vuelta, his number one objective for the season, where he was ****.

Luckily for Kerrison, this ridiculous training regime seems to work for the two main protagonists, Froome and Porte...I wonder why it works so well for them, while everyone else just gets exhausted.

 

[EnacheV]

Luckily for Kerrison, this ridiculous training regime seems to work for the two main protagonists, Froome and Porte...I wonder why it works so well for them, while everyone else just gets exhausted.

More likely the ones who survive this schedule are the ones designed as GT material. I mean, the schedule is not made to help someone specifically but rather to tell them who is the best fitted for the big jobs.

Their purpose is to win TdF not to make all team members better overall. So far seems to work.

 

[sublimit]

Dunno whether he's cut out to be a domestique the whole year apart from racing the Ardennes, so I'd rather see him at Nettap Endura after his contract ends instead of slogging himself on the front for Sky then blowing up like he was doing earler this year.

 

[hayzer114]

Lets be fair about it, JTL has been anonymous this year, I think he came to sky and expected to blow the fish out of the water like he was doing with Endura. He has only been a bit part player for sky, rarely leader in races and didn't ride a grand tour. In my opinion he would have been better off with NettApp-Endura for the season as he would have at least got to ride the Vuelta.

 

[CycloAndy]

What's most ridiculous is that the "experts" on Sky kept on pushing him after it was so obvious that he was completely overtrained. What the **** were they thinking?

It's not like you have to be a swimming expert or whatever to realize that when a guy's power is going down the more he trains then you should reduce the intensity...and this is not only for JTL, but counts for 90% of the team as well. Due to training hard going into big objectives many of the guys on the team has ended up being in their worst shape of the entire season as they enter their biggest goal. EBH for example was producing much better numbers after having a break after the classics, then he was during the classics or before TDF. The same was probably the case with Henao, who has been pretty good all year except from the Vuelta, his number one objective for the season, where he was ****.

Luckily for Kerrison, this ridiculous training regime seems to work for the two main protagonists, Froome and Porte...I wonder why it works so well for them, while everyone else just gets exhausted.

Sky's training has been a farce all year! Overtraining, altitude training in warm conditions on smooth roads for the classics and not tailoring the approach for puncheurs are all basic errors!! Hopefully Kerrison has learnt from his mistakes and will tailor his approach a bit more next year. Otherwise Sky will really struggle!

 

[argyllflyer]

Lets be fair about it, JTL has been anonymous this year, I think he came to sky and expected to blow the fish out of the water like he was doing with Endura. He has only been a bit part player for sky, rarely leader in races and didn't ride a grand tour. In my opinion he would have been better off with NettApp-Endura for the season as he would have at least got to ride the Vuelta.

His problems begin and end with training plans. Brian Smith said as much back in April and he had since gone on the record himself to confirm.

 

[postmanhat]

Sky's training has been a farce all year! Overtraining, altitude training in warm conditions on smooth roads for the classics and not tailoring the approach for puncheurs are all basic errors!! Hopefully Kerrison has learnt from his mistakes and will tailor his approach a bit more next year. Otherwise Sky will really struggle!

They'll probably win the Tour, and quite possibly the Giro. They haven't pretended to be anything other than GT focussed and are a relatively new team.

Like Orica who've just gone for stages and classics up till now. Or Garmin, whose main aim is uhm, ......?

JTL's career has been like a bad game of Snakes and Ladders. Maybe he's playing the wrong game?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Sky's training has been a farce all year! Overtraining, altitude training in warm conditions on smooth roads for the classics and not tailoring the approach for puncheurs are all basic errors!! Hopefully Kerrison has learnt from his mistakes and will tailor his approach a bit more next year. Otherwise Sky will really struggle!

I doubt Sky will see their training as a farce, ok improvements can be made but Sky's target every season is the Tour. They have achieved their goal and also have a podium in the Giro too. I have always got the impression that races like the spring classics are just an annoyance to them. To be fair if they continue to have success and achieve their goals they won't change a winning formula.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I doubt Sky will see their training as a farce, ok improvements can be made but Sky's target every season is the Tour. They have achieved their goal and also have a podium in the Giro too. I have always got the impression that races like the spring classics are just an annoyance to them. To be fair if they continue to have success and achieve their goals they won't change a winning formula.

Then don't change it for those that are winning with it, which is only a few riders. Doesn't take a genius to figure out different riders need different training schedules.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Then don't change it for those that are winning with it, which is only a few riders. Doesn't take a genius to figure out different riders need different training schedules.

I'm sure there will will be little changes as the team grows older and more experienced. At the moment they have a winning plan and that's what they have focused on. Hopefully now they look to expand and start thinking about decent classics prep ect.

 

[JRanton]

I doubt Sky will see their training as a farce, ok improvements can be made but Sky's target every season is the Tour. They have achieved their goal and also have a podium in the Giro too. I have always got the impression that races like the spring classics are just an annoyance to them. To be fair if they continue to have success and achieve their goals they won't change a winning formula.

What gave you that impression?

Sending 8 guys to train in Tenerife for weeks on end, as they did with their cobbles classics guys, is not a cheap exercise. You don't do that if the races are an annoyance to you. The classics, Giro and Tour were their main stated goals this year and all the training and preparation that took place backs that up.

 

[Pricey_sky]

What gave you that impression?

Sending 8 guys to train in Tenerife for weeks on end, as they did with their cobbles classics guys, is not a cheap exercise. You don't do that if the races are an annoyance to you. The classics, Giro and Tour were their main stated goals this year and all the training and preparation that took place backs that up.

Perhaps annoyance was a slightly harsh word but it just seemed like the classics were just shrugged off and brushed under the carpet. I still think sending guys to Tenerife for classics prep doesn't really work, no matter what the cost involved is.

 

[JRanton]

Perhaps annoyance was a slightly harsh word but it just seemed like the classics were just shrugged off and brushed under the carpet. I still think sending guys to Tenerife for classics prep doesn't really work, no matter what the cost involved is.

Funny thing is though that Cancellara spent more time than Sky did training in Tenerife for the classics.

Brailsford quite openly stated how disappointing their classics performances had been.

 

[maltiv]

Funny thing is though that Cancellara spent more time than Sky did training in Tenerife for the classics.

Brailsford quite openly stated how disappointing their classics performances had been.

It's not really about spending time there, but about the timing. Skipping T-A or PN was just dumb.

 

[Afrank]

Perhaps annoyance was a slightly harsh word but it just seemed like the classics were just shrugged off and brushed under the carpet. I still think sending guys to Tenerife for classics prep doesn't really work, no matter what the cost involved is.

I'd say there is more then a fair bit of truth to that. Sky's #1 rider is Froome, and their #1 goal is the Tour. Plus they've built themselves into a team capable of dominating stage racing. While the classics for them are more of a 'if success comes, great. If not, it's not too big a deal.'

Their classics guys are also for the most part strong domestique types, like Stannard, Hayman, Eisel, etc. They don't really have that many guys that center their season around the classics like Cance or Boonen or others.

 

[JRanton]

It's not really about spending time there, but about the timing. Skipping T-A or PN was just dumb.

Quite possibly, but the biggest problem that Sky have with the classics is they don't have a guy anywhere close to the level of Cancellara, Boonen or Sagan. I think the main reason for all the hype about Thomas and Stannard etc is that we all thought Sky would be able to improve them in the same way they have with their GC guys. And when you think about it the jump that Thomas for example needs to make to reach the top tier is tiny in comparison to the one that Froome has made!

 

[CycloAndy]

Quite possibly, but the biggest problem that Sky have with the classics is they don't have a guy anywhere close to the level of Cancellara, Boonen or Sagan. I think the main reason for all the hype about Thomas and Stannard etc is that we all thought Sky would be able to improve them in the same way they have with their GC guys. And when you think about it the jump that Thomas for example needs to make to reach the top tier is tiny in comparison to the one that Froome has made!

You're right, they would have struggled to win but you would expect more top-5 finishes at least! Training at altitude is fine, as long as it's combined with cobble specific training. Sky seem so obsessed with power that they fail to take into account skills like riding on cobbles or descending! The other thing I noticed was that, unlike in stages races, they didn't work as a team and often had riders spread out sporadically around the peleton. In Hayman, Eisel and Stannard they have some of the best domestiques which if used right could have dragged Thomas or EBH to the line. This might have stemmed from a lack of a clear leader though.

 

[Winterfold]

Sky are becoming a 'I watch cycling in July' (and see it live for a week in September) team.

Until someone gets DB and Kerrison to understand that GT riders are physically different from one day riders and puncheurs they will have to remain thus.

Where was Henao in the Vuelta? Is he the next EBH/JTL?

Some of their riders need to look at how quickly Cav understood this and what Gerrans has achieved since and bail.

Go back to Smithy JTL

Don't go to Sky Yates twins