Josh Tarling Discussion Thread

[CHGJ2000]

It's fine to disagree, just don't take people out of context. Maybe the wording was slightly harsh, but I think it was abundantly clear unless you have extremely poor reading skills that no one was calling Tarling an outright extremely poor pursuiter just relative to Tarling's truly incredible TT'ing abilities, yet that is how his father reacted.

Tarling is probably ~5th best pursuiter among the u23s, he's the best TT'er in the u23 age group by a truly comical margin, especially if you talk about pure flat TT's (the most similar to track from a physics pov) he has a reasonable chance of reaching levels/results no riders ever has in TT's as a u23. I only made the comment initially because non track fans tend to not realise how different of a sport it is and Tarling certainly isn't the only rider ever to be massively different in level in pursuits vs TT's in either direction.

 

[ManicJack]

The "offending" post was in my opinion poorly formulated and I think I would react just like Michael in his situation. But I'm not sure we could keep him around in a meaningful way, anyway. It would always have a high risk of getting out of hand fast.

This is nothing against Josh's father because I don't know him and wish him well on what is obviously a family journey that will provide unreplicable experiences. However having worked with dozens of elite U18 & U23 riders in the last decade +, that have raced internationally representing USA at Road, MTB and CX in world cups and world championships, there is nothing worse than and no good to come out of situation where a parent can't accept criticism directed at their child.

 

[kn0s]

This is nothing against Josh's father because I don't know him and wish him well on what is obviously a family journey that will provide unreplicable experiences. However having worked with dozens of elite U18 & U23 riders in the last decade +, that have raced internationally representing USA at Road, MTB and CX in world cups and world championships, there is nothing worse than and no good to come out of situation where a parent can't accept criticism directed at their child.

There was no real criticism in the post. It was just badly worded. I definitely raised an eyebrow, and I have no relationship with anyone of them.

 

[will-10]

Predictable echo chamber behaviour is predictable

 

[KZD]

Tarling hoping to ride the team pursuit and the madison in the Paris Olympics (besides the ITT)

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/josh-tarling-aims-to-combine-road-and-track-at-paris-2024-olympics/

 

[Berniece]

Perhaps Ganna will do that, but certainly the fact that Tarling is on GB and is primarily targeting the Olympics TT puts him at a significant advantage. WC TT is mostly flat with fairly small amount of climbing in very long course. He wouldn't have to be much stronger than Remco on the flat to win. I'm not sure if the fact the road race course is very hilly is making people confused about how hilly the TT is?

La Flamme Rouge - Information

I’m moving the discussion to here if that’s fine for you. Didn’t really have anything to do with the race.

Isn’t there more climbing at the WC than last year?

 

[Red Rick]

I’m moving the discussion to here if that’s fine for you. Didn’t really have anything to do with the race.

Isn’t there more climbing at the WC than last year?

It's a bit hillier, but at the same time it seems easier than I remember on this profile.

400m altitude gain in 46 km, it's not that much. Haven't seen much of Tarling in really hilly routes, but it's not so hilly I give him 0 shot in advance.

For reference, it's about slightly less altitude meters per km than Wollongong

 

[Berniece]

It's a bit hillier, but at the same time it seems easier than I remember on this profile.

400m altitude gain in 46 km, it's not that much. Haven't seen much of Tarling in really hilly routes, but it's not so hilly I give him 0 shot in advance.

For reference, it's about slightly less altitude meters per km than Wollongong

That's true, 400m isn't that much. Still 4 times as much as last year. It really depends on how much Tarling develops this year. Evenepoel probably doesn't have that much of a margin anymore in improving when it comes to his TT.

Tarling on the other hand is still very young, and apparently didn't have the proper setup yet at last year's WC. So he'll definitely ride podium again. Today he actually has his first TT in O Gran Camino.

 

[hayneplane]

It’s now on road bikes today so that will limit how much we can actually learn from this ITT.

 

[Berniece]

It’s now on road bikes today so that will limit how much we can actually learn from this ITT.

That's dissapointing

 

[JRanton]

Good to get a win even in the unusual circumstances. Took a ridiculous amount of time out of everyone in the tailwind section.

 

[125C]

I’m moving the discussion to here if that’s fine for you. Didn’t really have anything to do with the race.

Isn’t there more climbing at the WC than last year?

Yeah there's more than last year, but last year had very little. So in absolute time gain/loss terms, not super significant. re: Remco that echos what his technical coach said as well. Tarling had significant gains to make last year, everyone else not so much. Tarling didn't have a working PM at worlds either, so not just aero stuff to improve.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Not bad by Big Josh!

 

[ManicJack]

Not bad by Big Josh!

Paris Roubaix favorite now

 

[JRanton]

It will be interesing to see if he can show something in the classics. He said he’s due to ride E3, DDV, GW, Flanders and Roubaix.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It will be interesing to see if he can show something in the classics. He said he’s due to ride E3, DDV, GW, Flanders and Roubaix.

He certainly knows what he wants - utilizing his power on cobbles!

 

[JRanton]

He certainly knows what he wants - utilizing his power on cobbles!

Even in a stage like today I was impressed with how he kept Egan out of the wind right up until the final climb. He could turn out to be a very valuable domestique in a grand tour because he’s so powerful that he can handle hilly/medium mountains stages as well as the flat.

 

[Berniece]

Even in a stage like today I was impressed with how he kept Egan out of the wind right up until the final climb. He could turn out to be a very valuable domestique in a grand tour because he’s so powerful that he can handle hilly/medium mountains stages as well as the flat.

The new Cancellara

 

[theyoungest]

Even in a stage like today I was impressed with how he kept Egan out of the wind right up until the final climb. He could turn out to be a very valuable domestique in a grand tour because he’s so powerful that he can handle hilly/medium mountains stages as well as the flat.

Last year in the Renewi Tour I was surprised by how early he got dropped on the Flemish hills, while wearing the leader's jersey. Today was better, although obviously the weather suited a bigger guy like him.

 

[125C]

Last year in the Renewi Tour I was surprised by how early he got dropped on the Flemish hills, while wearing the leader's jersey. Today was better, although obviously the weather suited a bigger guy like him.

Dario Cioni his coach said that he doesn't train a lot for a professional and is getting brought along slowly in that respect still. Tends to lead to poor fatigue resistance - large drop off in power from fresh vs fatigued - which would explain him being relatively poorer in road stages, particularly hard ones compared to fresh efforts like TTs. Would also explain why arguably his best climbing performance of his career is still from UAE Tour as they run along at like 100w (sometimes even literally running they're going so slow) before the climbs there

 

[JRanton]

Dario Cioni his coach said that he doesn't train a lot for a professional and is getting brought along slowly in that respect still. Tends to lead to poor fatigue resistance - large drop off in power from fresh vs fatigued - which would explain him being relatively poorer in road stages, particularly hard ones compared to fresh efforts like TTs. Would also explain why arguably his best climbing performance of his career is still from UAE Tour as they run along at like 100w (sometimes even literally running they're going so slow) before the climbs there

Ineos (Sky) have learnt a lot over the years with how to develop young riders. It was impressive how well Carlos Rodriguez was developed and they are clearly being sensible with Tarling too and not overdoing things.

 

[125C]

Ineos (Sky) have learnt a lot over the years with how to develop young riders. It was impressive how well Carlos Rodriguez was developed and they are clearly being sensible with Tarling too and not overdoing things.

Yeah although his schedule this year doesn't allow him to win much. Surprised he's being sent to so many stage races without TT's. PN, Tour of Norway and Tour of Austria I don't think will have any TTs (PN = TTT, Austria is a prologue, will depend how short of a prologue whether it's viable for him). If it gets him into perfect shape for the Olympics though it's not a problem of course.

 

[theyoungest]

Dario Cioni his coach said that he doesn't train a lot for a professional and is getting brought along slowly in that respect still. Tends to lead to poor fatigue resistance - large drop off in power from fresh vs fatigued - which would explain him being relatively poorer in road stages, particularly hard ones compared to fresh efforts like TTs. Would also explain why arguably his best climbing performance of his career is still from UAE Tour as they run along at like 100w (sometimes even literally running they're going so slow) before the climbs there

Seems reasonable, although what you then get is with increased capability for harder road stages the TTs get worse. It's a balance, which currently is obviously tilted completely towards TTs. With his characteristics you'd expect him to be able to do something on the cobbles. He's too big to ever be a real GC contender... unless it's the Renewi Tour

 

[125C]

Seems reasonable, although what you then get is with increased capability for harder road stages the TTs get worse. It's a balance, which currently is obviously tilted completely towards TTs. With his characteristics you'd expect him to be able to do something on the cobbles. He's too big to ever be a real GC contender... unless it's the Renewi Tour

That's not what the research on fatigue resistance/WT rider power profiles suggests. Older/more training experienced riders don't get worse at fresh efforts (they get better), they just have less of a drop off between the two. More training tends to make you better at everything other than potentially really short stuff, even then there's a pretty significant aerobic component to efforts even as short as 30-60s.

 

[JRanton]

Good sign that he was able to put together two solid road stage performances in a row on hilly terrain.