Josh Tarling Discussion Thread

[CHGJ2000]

What type of rider is he outside of TTs? Is he the type that can develop more into a sprinter or can he climb at all to be a decent GT or stage race rider or will he mainly remain a TT specialist in the style of someone like Tony Martin?

His sprint sucks. Will probably be more of a TTer/stage racer.

Alla Ineos c'è già l'erede di Ganna: si chiama Tarling

Dario Cioni presenta Joshua Tarling, cronoman di 19 anni. Sta crescendo nel'ombra di Ganna, ma vincendo l'europeo ha già fatto vedere di cosa è capace

bici.pro

This interview with his (and Ganna's) coach gives a good overview.

TLDR, Tarling currently is very interested in reciveing advise from other pros but has some weaknesses:
For one he apparently is not the best at training accurately. Currently for a pro trains a very low volume, something that will be changed over the coming off-season, likely partly that is responsible for his poor fatigue resistance.

Tarling is only 78KG already (he has not much muscle, kinda like a really big early Dumoulin) but can drop weight in the coming years, so may be able to become a GC rider in the one week races or potentially GTs in the future. He may go back to the track for the Paris Olympics, if he does, he'll be in TDU next season so he can do the track world cup there.

My personal opinion is that he probably will struggle to get selected, Tarling owing to his lack of explosivity is an extremely poor pursuiter compared to his TT skills (not that he's bad, just nothing special).

 

[ingsve]

His sprint sucks. Will probably be more of a TTer/stage racer.

That sounds like he would be at a disadvantage in a race like Paris-Roubaix as well since you generally benefit from sprinting abilities to get good positions going into pavee sections, not to mention in the finish of those types of one-day races.

 

[Salvarani]

That sounds like he would be at a disadvantage in a race like Paris-Roubaix as well since you generally benefit from sprinting abilities to get good positions going into pavee sections, not to mention in the finish of those types of one-day races.

Yeah, he shouldnt even try.

 

[Berniece]

Imola had about 25% more elevation gain per KM than that fwiw. It's a very easy TT, essentially 35KM of flat TTing with a small hilly section in the middle. It's also a lot more technical than 2023 worlds, and those sections Tarling will utterly destroy Remco.

Depends how well Remco prepares for it really. For example the Giro TT stages he prepared very well, so he did much better in the technical corners. It’ll be a great race, but I think next year might still be a bit too early for Tarling.

 

[Mayomaniac]

They already had him do the Roubaix recon with Ganna this year and send him to the actual race.

 

[Sciatic]

Imola had about 25% more elevation gain per KM than that fwiw. It's a very easy TT, essentially 35KM of flat TTing with a small hilly section in the middle. It's also a lot more technical than 2023 worlds, and those sections Tarling will utterly destroy Remco.

I wish the forum had a function whereby every time someone makes an outlandish claim (about a future race or rider) such as “will utterly destroy” they would have to immediately deposit 100€ to stand by their claim until the event takes place.

 

[JRanton]

What type of rider is he outside of TTs? Is he the type that can develop more into a sprinter or can he climb at all to be a decent GT or stage race rider or will he mainly remain a TT specialist in the style of someone like Tony Martin?

He is surely too big and heavy to ever be a climber or GT rider. I do remember him doing quite well on a single climb stage in the UAE Tour when he could just use his massive engine to go all in for one big effort.

 

[CHGJ2000]

I wish the forum had a function whereby every time someone makes an outlandish claim (about a future race or rider) such as “will utterly destroy” they would have to immediately deposit 100€ to stand by their claim until the event takes place.

I’d be fine with that, although it would be impossible to prove unless Tarling starts uploading to Strava. nonetheless Remco consistently loses time through corners in all his TTs to major competitors, based on his splits on the Chrono des Nations TT on the Strava segment compared to Bissegger (consistently losing time through each corner, not even hard corners tbh mostly roundabouts, despite being faster everywhere else) I’d suspect he’s already lost a TT or at least lost most of his losing margin to Tarling due to his cornering abilities.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Depends how well Remco prepares for it really. For example the Giro TT stages he prepared very well, so he did much better in the technical corners. It’ll be a great race, but I think next year might still be a bit too early for Tarling.

I'm sure Tarling will improve more after 2024, but I dunno about it already being too soon. After worlds, Ineos did their first position testing with him since before junior worlds and according to Bigham found >10w in aero from the position improvements + putting him on parity with the rest of the field by giving him aero bars.

Even at the minimum gain from what Bigham said (11w), with nothing else changed at TT WC (e.g. bike computer with his PM actually linked to it), that would put him very close to parity with Ganna at WC TT. Relatively little improvement required beyond that for a 19 year old.

 

[hayneplane]

"an extremely poor pursuiter" Funniest ting I've read for a while.
Maybe have a quick check at his track results, nobody that goes through the GB Junior Academy is "an extremely poor pursuiter".
Junior European Champion at Team Pursuit
National Senior Team Pursuit Champion (as a Junior)
U23 European Champion at Team Pursuit
4th place in the Commonwealth Games (2 secs off Australia in the bronze ride off) while still a junior.

Is he intending on riding track world cups this winter to try and qualify for the Olympics in the track team or is it full focus on the road ITT ?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Is he intending on riding track world cups this winter to try and qualify for the Olympics in the track team or is it full focus on the road ITT ?

Yep, we're expecting the full intel from now on, Dad!

 

[CHGJ2000]

"an extremely poor pursuiter" Funniest ting I've read for a while.
Maybe have a quick check at his track results, nobody that goes through the GB Junior Academy is "an extremely poor pursuiter".
Junior European Champion at Team Pursuit
National Senior Team Pursuit Champion (as a Junior)
U23 European Champion at Team Pursuit
4th place in the Commonwealth Games (2 secs off Australia in the bronze ride off) while still a junior.

I’m not sure why you didn’t consider the full quote. Cutting it off is just wildly disingenuous . Extremely poor pursuiter and extremely poor pursuiter relative to his TT skills is self evidently not the same thing.

Ganna is a very poor sprinter compared to his pursuiting abilities (arguably the greatest ever). That doesn’t mean he’s a bad sprinter.

Was very specifically relative to his TT abilities. He’s a very good pursuiter but he is potentially the most talented TTer in this generation. If you look at his splits at euros he was about on the level of Luca Giaimi (slightly worse) who won junior TT NC by massively smaller margin than Tarling won elite NCs. I think that speaks to itself.

To clarify the Giaimi comment I mean Giaimi in junior TP this year while Tarling was in u23s, not last year when Josh was ill. Giaimi was delivered at a lower velocity and produced lap splits slightly faster than Josh for the same number of laps.

 

[will-10]

get out while you can Michael

 

[CHGJ2000]

If only I knew

I would say if reading full sentences is beyond your capabilities, forums aren’t for you. Might get very confusing 😘

 

[ManicJack]

I would say if reading full sentences is beyond your capabilities, forums aren’t for you. Might get very confusing 😘

If that poster really is he or his father I hope they have some thick skin, which so far isn't evidenced.

 

[CHGJ2000]

If that poster really is he or his father I hope they have some thick skin, which so far isn't evidenced.

I would hope he'd act more maturely if it is really his dad.

Taking the quote "Tarling owing to his lack of explosivity is an extremely poor pursuiter compared to his TT skills (not that he's bad, just nothing special)." and then going on a rant over "extremely poor pursuiter" is a little ridiculous and the kind of act I'd expect from a child, not a grown man with an adult child.

May be over the line to mock him for that but I think it is warranted here. I don't expect statements to be taken out of context, especially when it isn't like context was provided deep in a paragraph afterwards, it was quite literally the next words.

Anyway to expand on the track subject, Tarling so far I would believe will struggle to be selected for the GB team. Because of his rider type (e.g. not a sprinter) he would in all likelihood be fighting for selection with Ethan Hayter at man 4, who Bigham has described as the best man 4 in the world at the moment, even better than Ganna, and Bigham at man 3 whose pursuiting abilities probably need no introduction. There is the sub spot, but Charlton who beat Tarling in the IP at u23 euros and posted very strong TP splits (+ was the sub at worlds) is the most likely rider to take that spot imo.

I hope it doesn't need to be said, but none of this is intended to insult Tarling's abilities, but particularly at the man 3-4 spots (the ones that don't require you to be extremely explosive), GB is probably the hardest TP team in the world to get selected for, only Italy would be harder if Milan stays in man 3, but I suspect that might not be the case. Often times road fans aren't aware of the differences in demands of TP'ing (it's kinda like doing long sprints in the TT position physiologically) and how it is drastically different to TT'ing.

 

[Netserk]

May be over the line to mock him for that

Agreed.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Agreed.

Shrug.

If someone can't stop themselves from taking things wildly out of context to make fun of other users, they probably deserve to be called out and mocked for it. If I say Joshua Tarling is extremely short compared to Victor Wembenyama I wonder what reaction that will get, certainly would be easy to take of context in the exact same way.

 

[Sciatic]

Reaction to a discussion including Wembenyama‘s height would be whether he can use it to play in the low post

 

[King Of The Wolds]

It is his dad. Sure, it was probably a bit of an overreaction, but hey, what parent isn't a little over protective of their children? I know I am sometimes.

 

[proffate]

I would hope he'd act more maturely if it is really his dad.

Taking the quote "Tarling owing to his lack of explosivity is an extremely poor pursuiter compared to his TT skills (not that he's bad, just nothing special)." and then going on a rant over "extremely poor pursuiter" is a little ridiculous and the kind of act I'd expect from a child, not a grown man with an adult child.

May be over the line to mock him for that but I think it is warranted here. I don't expect statements to be taken out of context, especially when it isn't like context was provided deep in a paragraph afterwards, it was quite literally the next words.

Anyway to expand on the track subject, Tarling so far I would believe will struggle to be selected for the GB team. Because of his rider type (e.g. not a sprinter) he would in all likelihood be fighting for selection with Ethan Hayter at man 4, who Bigham has described as the best man 4 in the world at the moment, even better than Ganna, and Bigham at man 3 whose pursuiting abilities probably need no introduction. There is the sub spot, but Charlton who beat Tarling in the IP at u23 euros and posted very strong TP splits (+ was the sub at worlds) is the most likely rider to take that spot imo.

I hope it doesn't need to be said, but none of this is intended to insult Tarling's abilities, but particularly at the man 3-4 spots (the ones that don't require you to be extremely explosive), GB is probably the hardest TP team in the world to get selected for, only Italy would be harder if Milan stays in man 3, but I suspect that might not be the case. Often times road fans aren't aware of the differences in demands of TP'ing (it's kinda like doing long sprints in the TT position physiologically) and how it is drastically different to TT'ing.

what a lot of words, I wonder what do they mean? I couldn't get past "would"

 

[ManicJack]

It is his dad. Sure, it was probably a bit of an overreaction, but hey, what parent isn't a little over protective of their children? I know I am sometimes.

I feel sorry for his kid if he is on CN trying to defend against any comments. How old is his dad? Childish behavior.

 

[MichaelTarling]

Guys, I think some over reactions. I am indeed Josh's Dad, I have the grey hairs to prove it Also a life long cycling fan and have had CyclingNews as my home page since it started (I am that sad, I apologise . Never intended to cause any arguments, we've been overwhelmed by all the support he's had this year and are truly grateful.

He's a 19 year old kid loving riding his bike and loving the life style that so far has come with it. As parents we're loving the journey he's on and incredibly lucky its in a sport we've followed since childhood. I remember watching Greg Lemond and Bernard Hinault cross the line together at the top of Alpe D'Huez in 1986 and to think Josh is now part of that history of the sport is something special for us.

I'll let you guys discuss and debate the ins and outs and leave you too it.

 

[Berniece]

get out while you can Michael

How right you were... We could've had someone that actually knew the rider really well, and give insights for the next 15 years on what went good, what went wrong, etc. And now he's scared away already.

 

[kn0s]

How right you were... We could've had someone that actually knew the rider really well, and give insights for the next 15 years on what went good, what went wrong, etc. And now he's scared away already.

The "offending" post was in my opinion poorly formulated and I think I would react just like Michael in his situation. But I'm not sure we could keep him around in a meaningful way, anyway. It would always have a high risk of getting out of hand fast.