Kreuziger to face CAS? 10 days left for appeal...

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Will UCI appeal?

  • Utter silence, we will not know until someone leaks info

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mrhender said:
Poor thing...

UCI/WADA can't afford to lose this one...

Wonder how long this is going to drag out...

Maybe as long as he will be provisionally suspended..
He is not suspended any longer. He rode Milano - Torino, Lombardia, Paris - Bourges and Paris - Tours at the end of the season.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Netserk said:
He is not suspended any longer. He rode Milano - Torino, Lombardia, Paris - Bourges and Paris - Tours at the end of the season.
I know.. See edit ()
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Netserk said:
He won't. There's nothing UCI can do. He is free to race, just like Alberto in 2011.
Maybe so..

But they established new precedence last time they provisionally suspended him.. I would guess they would attempt to do the same again..

I could be wrong. But I don't think he will be racing any important races..
 
Mar 12, 2009
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mrhender said:
Maybe so..

But they established new precedence last time they provisionally suspended him.. I would guess they would attempt to do the same again..

I could be wrong. But I don't think he will be racing any important races..
He can't get suspended until CAS rules it (which will happen, eventually). He is free to race until that, wherever the team sends him.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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peloton said:
He can't get suspended until CAS rules it (which will happen, eventually). He is free to race until that, wherever the team sends him.
eventually...? you mean when the verdict is handed out?

What if Kreuziger throws lawyers at them for two years..?

I think they will do everything in their power to prevent another AC development.. Especially since Kreuziger has the ability of being a game changer for coming GT's..
 
Mar 12, 2009
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mrhender said:
eventually...? you mean when the verdict is handed out?

What if Kreuziger throws lawyers at them for two years..?

I think they will do everything in their power to prevent another AC development.. Especially since Kreuziger has the ability of being a game changer for coming GT's..
I don't think UCI can do anything to prevent another AC case. Unless they ask CAS to speed up, which we saw how it worked the last time, dragged for ages.

I do wonder why UCI waited for the final day to appeal, as it was clear they had to appeal to begin with. Guess their lawyers need to earn their money as well.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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peloton said:
I don't think UCI can do anything to prevent another AC case. Unless they ask CAS to speed up, which we saw how it worked the last time, dragged for ages.

I do wonder why UCI waited for the final day to appeal, as it was clear they had to appeal to begin with.


To the bolded.

I wondered about that to.. In the Benson interview Cookson essentially said they hadn't appealed yet but that they would.. He could have said that the day they got the verdict to avoid the clean stamp to attach for too long.. Assuming they are so certain of their case as they have said all along..
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Isn't it just standard practice, to give yourself the most possible time to put your case together? I wouldn't consider it a judgement on how strong they consider their case to be
 
Jul 11, 2013
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BradCantona said:
Isn't it just standard practice, to give yourself the most possible time to put your case together? I wouldn't consider it a judgement on how strong they consider their case to be
Yes.. Under normal circumstances I would agree..

But Cookson made this anything but standard practice when he went public as the accuser claiming both ignorance to the case and serious abnormalities..

Then they altered the whole praxis of how to consider a ABP case re: treating it as a positive A-sample, resulting in provisional suspension, only then to claim it a individual judgement (based on level of cooperation from team it seems)


The point is..
Cookson invested his persona in this.. They changed rules because of this..
Then only to keep quiet until asked about it at the Tour 2015 presentation..
(funny event to choose for proclamation btw)

If you are so PR-offensive in a case as they have been so far..
Why then let the clean verdict sink in.. He said nothing at the tour presentation he couldn't have said the day of the verdict..

I'am probably reading too much into this..
But i don't like it.. Smells like PR strategies all too much..
Especially with the "independent" tribunal coming up..
I guess this case is going to be the treshold -to prevent any future criticism of the upcoming Tribunal..
 
He's so busted. UCI & WADA combining effords to prosecute him means he's got no case at all. Plus it appears Cookson adds up another reason to hit Astana even more with Roman's case.

See U Roman in 2016:(
 
May 19, 2010
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The only special thing about Kreuzigers case is that he is screaming and fighting. This used to be what cyclists did when they were faced with a bio passport case, but they all lost, and then riders with bio passport cases against them just retired instead. Hoste, Barredo, Menchov.

Pellizotti is the only one who's come back after a bio passport ban, and he is still at Androni after three years.

Still it is not wise to cooperate too much. Menchov retired but didn't admit anything. He got two years and only lost the results from the 2009, 2010 and 2012 Tours de France. Leonardo Bertagnolli admited it all (to the Police), got 2 years and 10 months and lost all results from 3003 to 2011.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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neineinei said:
The only special thing about Kreuzigers case is that he is screaming and fighting. This used to be what cyclists did when they were faced with a bio passport case, but they all lost, and then riders with bio passport cases against them just retired instead. Hoste, Barredo, Menchov.

Pellizotti is the only one who's come back after a bio passport ban, and he is still at Androni after three years.

Still it is not wise to cooperate too much. Menchov retired but didn't admit anything. He got two years and only lost the results from the 2009, 2010 and 2012 Tours de France. Leonardo Bertagnolli admited it all (to the Police), got 2 years and 10 months and lost all results from 3003 to 2011.
Will be interesting to see if he will fight this hard, or only appear to do so while in the meantime drawing up the white flag...

Maybe they are going after Kreuziger to get him to spill the beans as to Vino/Riis and what was/is going on in their teams?

On that note:
I saw a bit of an interview today with Fuglsang..
I think he was asked about the seriousness of the Astana cases and replied almost smiling something like: that it was no different than from Tinkoff/Saxo..
I didn't see the whole thing and it is from memory but it seemed kind of odd that he would bring his former employer into this...

In regards to Kreuziger spilling the beans:
It would make perfect sense re: Cookson wanting them (Vino/Riis) to appear in front of the CIRC iirc...

They are probably not calculating on his cooperation but who knows..
At least it hurts both teams if Kreuziger is convicted..

Finally it will be interesting to see:

1. How long will this drag out?

2. Will they find a way of provisionally suspend him so that they do not face the risk of him having influence on GT wins etc. the next year or two?

3. If not then they might try to enforce e a speedy verdict, but will RK play along?

Question: Is he only risking two years or can they in some way enforce the new four year ban on him?
 
May 19, 2011
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mrhender said:
Yes.. Under normal circumstances I would agree..

But Cookson made this anything but standard practice when he went public as the accuser claiming both ignorance to the case and serious abnormalities..

Then they altered the whole praxis of how to consider a ABP case re: treating it as a positive A-sample, resulting in provisional suspension, only then to claim it a individual judgement (based on level of cooperation from team it seems)


The point is..
Cookson invested his persona in this.. They changed rules because of this..
Then only to keep quiet until asked about it at the Tour 2015 presentation..
(funny event to choose for proclamation btw)

If you are so PR-offensive in a case as they have been so far..
Why then let the clean verdict sink in.. He said nothing at the tour presentation he couldn't have said the day of the verdict..

I'am probably reading too much into this..
But i don't like it.. Smells like PR strategies all too much..
Especially with the "independent" tribunal coming up..
I guess this case is going to be the treshold -to prevent any future criticism of the upcoming Tribunal..
LOL Cookson still has to listen to the lawyers. And no lawyers like to do things swiftly within the deadline, because their salary is calculated by the hours or days. They file the petition late to maximize their own profit because they can claim I am still doing legal research for this particular issue. It is so typical in the law practice. I believe Europe is the same thing as here.
 
So at least we now know that the 'serious anomalies' were:

1) rising trend of hemoglobin during Giro 2012

and

2) increased reticulocyte level between Aug 2011 and April 2012. However the limit values (calculated for Mr. Kreuziger) were never reached.


The Kreuziger's defense references:

1) the spread of blood values of individual racers in 'Haematological and iron metabolism parameters in professional cyclists during the Giro d'Italia 3-weeks stage race' by R.Corsetti et al.,

2) treatment of Hypothyroidism by substitute hormone L-Thyroxine, which might result in the similar blood values based on 'Effects of Thyroid Hormone on A1C and Glycated Albumin Levels in Nondiabetis Subjects with Overt Hypothyroidism' by Kim et al.

3) Also says some blood samples were not stored and transported properly (according to WADA guidelines) and should't be taken into account but this obviously an attorney way of working.

UCI experts say those works don't apply. Mr. Kreuziger's experts say the works referenced by UCI experts don't apply (not enough study subjects, not under 3-week race conditions).
Not sure the UCI know what they're doing on this one. Or its rigged? :confused:
 

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