Kristin Armstrong

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A 43 year old that retired once, came back, retired again, came back...hasn't raced much (ok, your 43, probably aren't going to recover as fast when you were in your 20's, fine)...bloodied nose, beats a previously suspended rider and everyone else, last name Armstrong....

Am I the only one that is LOL'ing at this?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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BullsFan22 said:
A 43 year old that retired once, came back, retired again, came back...hasn't raced much (ok, your 43, probably aren't going to recover as fast when you were in your 20's, fine)...bloodied nose, beats a previously suspended rider and everyone else, last name Armstrong....

Am I the only one that is LOL'ing at this?


I wonder how many doping tests she passed during her retirement...:D
 
Oct 16, 2010
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the sad thing is we don't even know if it was doping or a motor.
or both.
cycling is truly *** up.
 
Re:

BigMac said:
I'd have betted on her. Just saying.

It's not THAT outrageous.

In May she got beat in the National Championship TT by over 1 minute in 33K getting third. Winning time: ~42 minutes. That's not good. In August, she's a world beater, at age 40-something. Seems legit.

Armstrong provides yet another artifact of USA Cycling's mismanagement of the sport. The rules for qualifying for the Olympic team required international elite competition. You would think, the two women who were going all over Europe, then coming back to the U.S. and beating Armstrong in a TT would be on the Olympic team. Nope. Armstrong's coach is in charge of competition at USA Cycling.

Yet another favored USA Cycling rider getting special favors. It's not controversial to suggest USA Cycling is okay with doping. Is she doping? I have no idea. There's no way to know because the sport is such a mess.
 
I was following the TT on Twitter and BBCIplayer with it on in the background.

I was hearing that Zabelinkskaya was putting in a decent time. @Pigeons on Twitter was seriously lambasting her about her doping violations.

Then Armstrong wins and all I see on Twitter from her and some others are stuff like 'Oh thanks KA for saving us from disaster' :lol:

PMSL - Come on. A 43 year old who has 'retired' twice to have kids to come back and crush the TT like that only beating a known doper :lol:

I used to like @Pigeons. She would put some decent stuff on Twitter re womens cycling. But since the Armitstead thing she's talked some right pony, that was just the last straw for me.

BAN THE RUSSIAN's! Yay Dave Millar!
 
MartinGT said:
I was following the TT on Twitter and BBCIplayer with it on in the background.

I was hearing that Zabelinkskaya was putting in a decent time. @Pigeons on Twitter was seriously lambasting her about her doping violations.

Then Armstrong wins and all I see on Twitter from her and some others are stuff like 'Oh thanks KA for saving us from disaster' :lol:

PMSL - Come on. A 43 year old who has 'retired' twice to have kids to come back and crush the TT like that only beating a known doper :lol:

I used to like @Pigeons. She would put some decent stuff on Twitter re womens cycling. But since the Armitstead thing she's talked some right pony, that was just the last straw for me.

BAN THE RUSSIAN's! Yay Dave Millar!
well either the general population is in deep denial or extremely naive/stupid... WADA, UCI, IOC and all other sports/antidop organisations are just playing the ball tacticaly based on that conclusion.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Re:

Bunyak said:
A group of athletes in Rio has found the secret to enhanced performance and it has nothing to do with doping. ...

A healthy work-life balance makes all the difference for Armstrong, the American cyclist, who works in a hospital and is a mother. "We are all quite physically similar as athletes," she said. "Winning comes from between the ears."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-rio-age-idUSKCN10T124

Who writes this crap? What's next? Claiming she won because she has a rain-forest down under?* :rolleyes:

* The British track team actually used that to explain their performances lol.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re:

El Pistolero said:
Is this because of doping, the low level of female cycling or both? My money is on the last option.

I think there are plenty examples of doping in the female peloton, not too mention those who run the teams all come from the culture of doping to win.

Krisitn Armstrong at 43 and very little serious competition, retired twice comes and beats the field in a TT! Doping.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Re: Re:

DirtyWorks said:
In May she got beat in the National Championship TT by over 1 minute in 33K getting third. Winning time: ~42 minutes. That's not good. In August, she's a world beater, at age 40-something. Seems legis.

The flaw in that logic is you don't know how Small or Neben would have performed - perhaps they would have trounced her again.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

acoggan said:
DirtyWorks said:
In May she got beat in the National Championship TT by over 1 minute in 33K getting third. Winning time: ~42 minutes. That's not good. In August, she's a world beater, at age 40-something. Seems legis.

The flaw in that logic is you don't know how Small or Neben would have performed - perhaps they would have trounced her again.

I dont see anywhere in DWs post that suggests Small or Neben would not have trounced her. He is making the point of KA's jump in performance by beating everyone else at Rio including a Russian (who at this point are the nation of known dopers).

K Armstrong, not normal.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
acoggan said:
DirtyWorks said:
In May she got beat in the National Championship TT by over 1 minute in 33K getting third. Winning time: ~42 minutes. That's not good. In August, she's a world beater, at age 40-something. Seems legis.

The flaw in that logic is you don't know how Small or Neben would have performed - perhaps they would have trounced her again.

I dont see anywhere in DWs post that suggests Small or Neben would not have trounced her. He is making the point of KA's jump in performance by beating everyone else at Rio including a Russian (who at this point are the nation of known dopers).

K Armstrong, not normal.

You're making the same false assumption, i.e., that Armstrong performed significantly better in Rio than she did a month or so before at Nationals. Since she was racing different people, we don't know that.
 
Let's have a more comprehensive look over a wider spectrum of results then.

Here's the Olympic result in full, an ITT of 29,8km:

1 Kristin Armstrong (USA) 44'26
2 Olga Zabelinskaya (RUS) +5"
3 Anna van der Breggen (NED) +11"
4 Ellen van Dijk (NED) +22"
5 Elisa Longo Borghini (ITA) +25"
6 Linda Villumsen (NZL) +28"
7 Tara Whitten (CAN) +35"
8 Lisa Brennauer (GER) +56"
9 Katrin Garfoot (AUS) +1'09"
10 Evelyn Stevens (USA) +1'34"
11 Alena Amialiusik (BLR) +1'39"
12 Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio (RSA) +2'03"
13 Karol-Ann Canuel (CAN) +2'04"
14 Emma Pooley (GBR) +2'05"
15 Eri Yonamine (JPN) +2'17"
16 Trixi Worrack (GER) +2'26"
17 Lotta Lepistö (FIN) +2'40"
18 Kasia Niewiadoma (POL) +3'21"
19 Anna Plichta (POL) +3'33"
20 Hanna Solovey (UKR) +3'37"
21 Lotte Kopecky (BEL) +3'43"
22 Christine Majerus (LUX) +3'50"
23 Ann-Sophie Duyck (BEL) +3'51"
24 Audrey Cordon-Ragot (FRA) +5'06"
25 Vita Heine (NOR) +5'57"

There are a couple of people who underperformed there, after very busy preceding months or expending a lot of energy in the road race (Stevens and Niewiadoma most notable), while Ellen van Dijk's off-road excursion also likely cost her a medal. Now, at the same time, I don't see Carmen Small stomping this field by a minute either, and I rate Small. So how 'out there' really was this result? Armstrong isn't alone in pulling the rabbit out of the hat, of course, Zabelinskaya also did similarly (although in fairness although she'd been relatively quiet in terms of end-of-day results Olga Z has been very active in the European péloton throughout the season, making key moves in Gent-Wevelgem and de Ronde, and being very combative in Thüringen and La Route, however not at the same kind of prominence shown in the Olympic chrono).

First up, we have, from July 21st, the Cascade Classic TT. This is an exclusively North American field, but it's worth noting the top 3, the class of the field. This TT was over 19,9km, so 2/3 the length of the Olympic TT.
1 Tara Whitten 33'20"
2 Carmen Small +8"
3 Kristin Armstrong +18"

The pace (33 mins for 20km as opposed to 44 mins for 30km) is down slightly on the Olympics, which suggests a fairly hilly course since Rio was pretty technical and in poor weather. Whitten goes from beating Armstrong by 18" here to losing to her by 35" three weeks later, although on a longer course. In Richmond, however, over 30km, Whitten was over a minute behind Armstrong so clearly in the longer time trials she has a deficit relative to Kristin. If we compare to the similar length (19,3km) Chrono de Gatineau, which took place at the start of June:
1 Amber Neben 26'44"
2 Tara Whitten +11"
3 Karol-Ann Canuel +12"

As you can see, this is a much faster course than the Cascade Classic, with a course 600m shorter being completed six and a half minutes faster. Neben wasn't at the Olympics to judge on, but you can see how close Whitten and Canuel are, compared to their Rio performances. Neben's performance can be placed into a bit more context when the US National TT a week earlier, and the longest looked at yet at 33km, is taken into context:
1 Carmen Small 42'32"
2 Amber Neben +23"
3 Kristin Armstrong +1'08"
...
6 Evelyn Stevens +1'53"

Clearly a flatter and faster route than the Olympics (3km longer, 2 minutes faster), but you can see how Small goes from being a minute faster than Armstrong late in May, to 10" faster in late July, so her advantage over Armstrong is fairly limited at that point. Also note Neben's times relative to Tara Whitten and where Tara slots in in the other races. Helpfully in early May, a few weeks before the nationals, we have a 26km chrono in the Tour of the Gila:
1 Kristin Armstrong 39'05"
...
4 Linda Villumsen +1'21"
...
8 Eri Yonamine +2'29"

From this you can see that Armstrong's advantage over Yonamine is in line with her Olympic performance, however Villumsen improves her time as against Armstrong by a minute over the ensuing three months.

Away from the North American scene's more insular races, we can look at the relative performances of the regular stars of the European péloton. Looking at the US nationals and wondering about Armstrong can only get us so far. You can see there that she beat Evie Stevie by 45" in May when not at her best, doubling this advantage in the Olympics, but when you look at the Giro ITT, Stevens won that stage outright. In this hilly test over 22km, we see the performances of various athletes who Armstrong beat:
1 Evelyn Stevens 36'21"
2 Anna van der Breggen +4"
3 Elisa Longo Borghini +4"
...
5 Kasia Niewiadoma +37"
6 Karol-Ann Canuel +1'04"
...
11 Alena Amialiusik +1'49"
...
13 Emma Pooley +1'50"
...
27 Amber Neben +2'56"
...
42 Eri Yonamine +3'42"

As you can see, some similar placements for some riders to those obtained in Rio (Amialiusik, Pooley...). Note the relative closeness in both the Giro and Olympics between Anna VDB and ELB, and the similar timegaps back to Amialiusik, who is slightly better in the Olympics than at the Giro. Also note how far down Amber Neben is relative to Canuel (who spent most of the Giro slaving as a domestique), compared to a month earlier in the Chrono Gatineau.

Also, between the Giro and the Olympics, we had a 19km chrono in the Thüringen Rundfahrt, one of the most storied stage races on the calendar and which, with its rolling terrain and old DDR cobbles, is far from a bad form guide, although it was clearly a faster TT than at Rio:
1 Ellen van Dijk 24'34"
...
3 Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio +35"
4 Lisa Brennauer +43"
5 Linda Villumsen +1'05"
...
10 Olga Zabelinskaya +1'27"
...
12 Trixi Worrack +1'34"
...
14 Hanna Solovey +1'40"

Notice the consistency of timegap between van Dijk and Brennauer, two of the most vaunted TT specialists in the péloton. Also Villumsen's performance improves over the period, but especially once you take van Dijk's near miss out of the equation the difference is less clear. Here Trixi Worrack is a minute and a half down, she's just over two minutes from the Dutchwoman on the Olympic course which seems quite well in line with expectation. Also worth noting is that in that Thüringen TT Natalia Boyarskaya was 26th, over a minute shy of Zabelinskaya; three weeks earlier at the nationals she had beaten her by almost two minutes in a 24,5km test against the clock; both of them were demolished by Tatiana Antoshina, however she was busted for doping before the Olympics.

Although the length is much shorter, there is a 13,5km test at the end of April in Graciá-Orlová worth paying some mind to:
1 Ann-Sophie Duyck 17'56"
...
3 Olga Zabelinskaya +7"
...
5 Alena Amialiusik +14"

Duyck, a bit like Malori, is very competitive in mid-length TTs but the longer ones will cause her to suffer, however the relative competition levels of Olga and Alena compared to Rio shows a clear, clear change. The relative performances of the likes of Vasilieva and Dobrynina do enable us to surmise that the Russian Worlds was more of a one-off underperformance from Zabelinskaya than anything else.

Despite not even being a UCI race, the Borsele ITT is quite a useful guide thanks to decent prize money and prestige, and being appended to a UCI one-day race means it draws a pretty good field. It's 20km long and this year's results saw the following Olympians:
1 Lisa Brennauer 26'22"
2 Ellen van Dijk +3"
...
6 Anna van der Breggen +24"
...
8 Katrin Garfoot +55"
...
13 Christine Majerus +1'20"
14 Hanna Solovey +1'23"
...
16 Karol-Ann Canuel +1'26"
...
19 Kasia Niewiadoma +1'44"

Note that the time gaps from van Dijk to Garfoot are in line with the Olympics, though Brennauer and van der Breggen are swapped from where they would be relative to van Dijk's time in Rio. It's also interesting to view where Canuel - here coming off a peak to assist in the climbing/mountainous races of mid-April such as La Flèche Wallonne and the Emakumeen Bira - is relative to the field compared to where she is in the Chrono Gatineau a month later, away from her Giro peak in July, to consider the relative merits of the chronos in the scenes.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

acoggan said:
Benotti69 said:
acoggan said:
DirtyWorks said:
In May she got beat in the National Championship TT by over 1 minute in 33K getting third. Winning time: ~42 minutes. That's not good. In August, she's a world beater, at age 40-something. Seems legis.

The flaw in that logic is you don't know how Small or Neben would have performed - perhaps they would have trounced her again.

I dont see anywhere in DWs post that suggests Small or Neben would not have trounced her. He is making the point of KA's jump in performance by beating everyone else at Rio including a Russian (who at this point are the nation of known dopers).

K Armstrong, not normal.

You're making the same false assumption, i.e., that Armstrong performed significantly better in Rio than she did a month or so before at Nationals. Since she was racing different people, we don't know that.

I think Libertine Seguros has as per usual shown nearly every other poster up with her complete analysis.

No false assumption.

Also when you look at Kristin Armstrong ties with USAC it aint hard to join dots.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
I think Libertine Seguros has as per usual shown nearly every other poster up with her complete analysis.

No false assumption.

Also when you look at Kristin Armstrong ties with USAC it aint hard to join dots.

She certainly dug up a lot of results, but it isn't clear to me what they are supposed to show.

In any case, how Armstrong got on the team is a completely different question than whether she performed better in Rio than at Nationals.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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Cervelo77 said:
TTs are about suffering. She is a mother. Unfair advantage.


wow, childbirth doping!

maybe new marginal gain for SKY?

would love to see pregnant Vrooooom... but wait...already now he does not race for 9 months in a year :)
 
Re: Re:

acoggan said:
Benotti69 said:
I think Libertine Seguros has as per usual shown nearly every other poster up with her complete analysis.

No false assumption.

Also when you look at Kristin Armstrong ties with USAC it aint hard to join dots.

She certainly dug up a lot of results, but it isn't clear to me what they are supposed to show.

In any case, how Armstrong got on the team is a completely different question than whether she performed better in Rio than at Nationals.

When a rider goes from nationally-sort-of-fast to world-beating in a few short weeks, we're supposed to believe she trained harder? The rest of the field was lazy? Yeah, okay.
 
Great well thought out analysis of Kristin Armstrong and other women in the TT by Libertine Seguros. I wonder if she could explain to me Mark Cavendish's 8 seconds Personal Best Improvement for the IP in Rio over just 4kms. Also Lasse Norman Hansen's 5 seconds improvement. His is more amazing as he has done so many individual pursuits although at least he is probably getting stronger with being relatively young but Cav's too old for any age improvement.

There really is no place for honest clean riders in any form of top level cycling is there? No matter how many promises the new UCI leaders make about cleaning it up. Same with athletics of course. Very sad indeed.
 
Re:

Craigee said:
Great well thought out analysis of Kristin Armstrong and other women in the TT by Libertine Seguros. I wonder if she could explain to me Mark Cavendish's 8 seconds Personal Best Improvement for the IP in Rio over just 4kms. Also Lasse Norman Hansen's 5 seconds improvement. His is more amazing as he has done so many individual pursuits although at least he is probably getting stronger with being relatively young but Cav's too old for any age improvement.

There really is no place for honest clean riders in any form of top level cycling is there? No matter how many promises the new UCI leaders make about cleaning it up. Same with athletics of course. Very sad indeed.

America's Justin Gatlin says "Age is just a number...." Cav trains harder. Armstrong (Kristin) wanted it more.
 
Does Amber Neben need her own thread? Does one already exist in the Clinic? If it doesn't exist and we don't need to open one specifically for her, then this is a perfect place for her. I suppose we can also move anyone that rides suspiciously fast in their 40's, particularly when they've already been busted and served their ban.