La Grande Boucle 2011 TTT - Galibier - Alpe D'Huez

[BeachBum]

I like the shorter TTT, there will be gaps, but they shouldn't be too big. Anything they can do to derail sprint trains in a safe manner (ie hills in the last 10k, finish slightly up hill, etc) would be good as well.

 

[outrage9]

With no prologue, the TTT will help keep the jersey in one spot, likely away from the sprinters, for more of the tour. Maybe they are tired of seeing Fabian in yellow for the first week. But they have to do it early before the teams start losing too many riders to first week crashes. I'm on the fence about them so it's nice that they are there some years and not others.

 

[skidmark]

Like DT, I thought the thread was claiming a TTT from the Galibier to Alpe d'Huez, which would be insane. I wonder how that would affect team selection... would you get a team full of climbers? Would you get more than 5 in case of injury in the first week or two? Yipes, what a thought. It's so much spectacle and makes so little sense that I expect to see it in the Giro within 2 years.

 

[benpounder]

Hmm, when I saw the topic title I hoped to see "TTT on Alpe d'Huez"

Then it's the 5th best climber who's most important

While intriguing, ASO is smart enough to know that any TTT has to be scheduled early in the competition. Just imagine the uproar when Samu Sanchez loses any hope for a podium because 5 Euskaltal riders have already crashed out.

icefire: if ASO does Galibier with a MTF on Deux Alpe, I suspect you'd see the next day going back over Galibier with either Glandon or Col de la Croix-de-Fer before the ascent of L'Alpe D'Huez. Like stage 17 in 2008:

 

[auscyclefan94]

I hate ttt's! They falsify the results.

 

[benpounder]

I hate ttt's! They falsify the results.

TTT's affect results... but then so do ITT's, MTF's, crosswinds, and cobbles. Time bonuses falsify results.

 

[roundabout]

http://www.eurosport.fr/cyclisme/tour-de-france/2010/2011-les-alpes-a-la-fete_sto2411061/story.shtml

It's possible that there would be stages in Vosges/Massif Central

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

While not enough info to go on, it's my immediate impression that we're headed for another bland Tour, like the last few. I once again sense not enough MTF's, not enough climbs period, too many flat finishes for the sprinters and breaks, and I'm going to guess a lack of at least one long, brutal mountain stages where we could see serious gaps.

I think BroDeal said it best so far, it seems as if in order to have a close finish, the Tour is sacrificing the first two-plus weeks. They seem to be so risk-averse or afraid that someone will gain a large lead early on, they replace decisive stages with safe ones.

 

[indurain666]

It sounds like it will suck once again. Prudhomme has not learned anything from this year or last year. He seems to think that not giving the riders opportunities to create meaningful gaps will keep the race tight and this somehow translates to an exciting Tour because the race will not be decided until late in the Tour. So he will neuter the Pyrenees and hope that Alpe d'Huez will provide the fireworks in the Alps, forgetting that Alpe d'Huez is often said to be a mountain where the TdF cannot be won but can be lost, i.e. it is not steep enough.

I agree, based on my perception he is pretty much saying the Pyreneses are going to be a joke. Probably Tourmalet or Envalira with 50-70k to from the top.

These means, probably one tough mountaintop finish in the alps plus another medium mountaintop finish. I am not too confident.

The epic mountain stages we have seen in the 90s and early 00s might be history.

 

[outrage9]

I agree, based on my perception he is pretty much saying the Pyreneses are going to be a joke. Probably Tourmalet or Envalira with 50-70k to from the top.

These means, probably one tough mountaintop finish in the alps plus another medium mountaintop finish. I am not too confident.

The epic mountain stages we have seen in the 90s and early 00s might be history.

They probably figure they need to since everyone is "clean" now, they couldn't do all of the amazing feats the dopers could.

 

[Bennyl]

I hate ttt's! They falsify the results.

I bet if BMC pick up Cancellara, you will not be singing the same tune

 

[Bennyl]

TTT's affect results... but then so do ITT's, MTF's, crosswinds, and cobbles. Time bonuses falsify results.

and yet, time bonuses ensure that riders actually race for position on the mountain stages instead of just rolling in as a group. i don't mind them from that respect.

 

[nickel999]

While not enough info to go on, it's my immediate impression that we're headed for another bland Tour, like the last few. I once again sense not enough MTF's, not enough climbs period, too many flat finishes for the sprinters and breaks, and I'm going to guess a lack of at least one long, brutal mountain stages where we could see serious gaps.

I think BroDeal said it best so far, it seems as if in order to have a close finish, the Tour is sacrificing the first two-plus weeks. They seem to be so risk-averse or afraid that someone will gain a large lead early on, they replace decisive stages with safe ones.

Hmm... maybe coordinate a stage with Angelo Zomegnan to ride the Zolocon. He would probably love the publicity as someone who knows how to design a competitive grand tour.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hmm... maybe coordinate a stage with Angelo Zomegnan to ride the Zolocon. He would probably love the publicity as someone who knows how to design a competitive grand tour.

+1

Then they can head to Spain and ride up the Angliru.

 

[Rooboy]

Wow - i'd hate to be a tdf organiser.

It's impossible to keep everyone happy:

- a TTT - too long and rider with strongest team wins - isn't it it a team sport?
- Cobbles - too dangerous? rider rebellion? put it in first week and people will still say they didn't try make it interesting.
-Prologue - same guy will win again. What's the point?
- ITT - will favour one rider or another no matter how we plan it so we'll get complaints whatever we do.
- mountain top finish? the 1000 euros we paid the cafe at the top of the tourmalet doesn't quite compare with 200,000 we were paid for that finish in say (insert nameless mid-size town name). Yes these figures were made up.
- tough mountains in first week and a guy gets 8 minutes - who will watch afterwards? (actually wavering on this as unlikely a GC contender would)
- and so on

I have to say though i really believe they almost got it right this year. Yes, I was as bored as most watching the last mountain stage, but you have to admit you tuned in didn't you?

Fix one:
I know it's been brought up many a time before but get rid of the radios!!!! Yes give every rider a radio but don't let it have direct access to the DS. The race officials can then give out any hazard warnings (the only real argument I've heard against radios).

Fix two:
Make it tougher. Nothing turns people off a "tough" sport more than a guy that makes a 1,000,000 then cries about how tough it is. My opinion - if it's too hot in the kitchen don't go in there - no one is forcing you to. There's plenty of other races, but there's a reason why the prize money is smaller. (ok maybe just make some parts tougher - i don't want to kill them )

 

[mastersracer]

the tour needs to bring back a long ITT in the first week - open up some time gaps so GC contenders are forced to race the mt stages aggressively. 1989 stage 5 ITT 73km, 1991 stage 8 73km ITT.

 

[Ferminal]

I'm happy to see no prologue... as long Stage 1 is like 2008 where Piti took a great win ahead of Gilbert, Kirchen and Cuddles. Perhaps a slightly more selective finish than that day would be good. However, replacing the prologue with a flat sprinter's day would be an absolute joke, we have one of them in Paris at the end so please don't add one at the top too.

Personally I don't mind the TTT as along as it's <30km... The Giro TTT was 33km and no one remembers it apart from Vino losing pink. I'd prefer a short TTT than an 8th sprinter's stage, it's nothing special but it breaks it up. There will be the long TT in the final few days (after AdH I guess). Possibly a decent sized TT before the Alps. Why don't they use that opportunity to run a MTF ITT for once.

Neutralising one mountain range is ridiculous, but it again sounds like that's the plan with the "Spectacular finish at AdH". There should never be fewer than 2 MTFs in the Pyrenees or Alps. Please make them decent stages in Pyrenees too not like the rubbish we saw at Arcalis or Avoriaz as """the first big test in the mountains""". I agree with DT - have some shorter, more compacted stages in the mountains.

Finally, don't give us 7 or 8 bunch sprints. Add some uphill finishes and tougher transition stages.

 

[karlboss]

I think there should be a long flat Time trial, 3 hours plus. That would mess with GC calculations.

 

[benpounder]

and yet, time bonuses ensure that riders actually race for position on the mountain stages instead of just rolling in as a group. i don't mind them from that respect.

Ensure? I'd say encourage. Also, if ASO went to the Giro/Vuelta scoring system (w/o the time bonuses), riders other than the sprinters would be encouraged to finish a stage strongly. It is a Points Jersey, not a sprinters jersey after all.

 

[dbrower]

Rats. I read the thread title and thought there was going to be a TTT with a big climb. That'd really shake things up -- TTT up the Alpe.

-dB

 

[danyela]

The TTT will be short - so all good and shouldn't mess up the GC.

Ideally I reckon:

S1 - good start, challenging finish
S2 - TTT
S3-5 - two sprint stages plus break away hill stage
S6-8 - Pyrenees stages including 1 mtn top finish
S9 - uphill ITT in Pyrenees
rest day
S10-12 - transitional stages
S13-14 - first Alps stage to have mtn top finish
rest day
S15 - ITT say 40-50km
S16 - hills
S17-19 Alps with 2 mtn top finishs one on Alpe d'Huez
S20 - back to Paris

I think that mixes it up a bit. Or I will get completely blasted by everyone on here haha

 

[NickBVK]

Alpe D'Huez aww yeah

At least Cadel won't lose the Tour in the TTT this time!

 

[auscyclefan94]

Alpe D'Huez aww yeah

At least Cadel won't lose the Tour in the TTT this time!

That's because he will win!

TTT's affect results... but then so do ITT's, MTF's, crosswinds, and cobbles. Time bonuses falsify results.

General classification should be about the strongest rider winning the race. The GC is an individual classification and should not be based on team strenght but rider strength.

I bet if BMC pick up Cancellara, you will not be singing the same tune

no. the ttt still sucks.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The TTT will be short - so all good and shouldn't mess up the GC.

Ideally I reckon:

S1 - good start, challenging finish
S2 - TTT
S3-5 - two sprint stages plus break away hill stage
S6-8 - Pyrenees stages including 1 mtn top finish
S9 - uphill ITT in Pyrenees
rest day
S10-12 - transitional stages
S13-14 - first Alps stage to have mtn top finish
rest day
S15 - ITT say 40-50km
S16 - hills
S17-19 Alps with 2 mtn top finishs one on Alpe d'Huez
S20 - back to Paris

I think that mixes it up a bit. Or I will get completely blasted by everyone on here haha

Two flat tt's of 40 to 50km is equivalent to all the mtf. People may dislike sprint stages but you do need some of these as
1. GC riders need days off
2. For the fans to enjoy the entertaining mountain stages we need to feel the boredom of sprint stages!

 

[Four Winds]

I assumed with the first 3 stages in the Vendee the route would have to go south fairly soon to head to the Pyrenees, but the rumours are that they will be heading north for stages in Brittany and Normandy first, then down to the Pyrenees. With that in mind they can't spend too long in the Pyrenees which is a pity.