La Vuelta '17 stage 3:Prades Conflent>Andorra la Vella 158km

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Tank Engine said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Valv.Piti - both Yates brothers are pretty interesting short stage racers and one-day racers, but they both retreat into their shells abjectly when the races get longer. Don't know if it's "conserve energy until later" "damn, now I'm knackered and all I can do is follow" until we've got a greater body of work to judge, but they really don't inspire much excitement in Grand Tours. In much the same way as Valverde is criticised for being ultra-conservative in the biggest races but animates the small ones. Still, could be worse - there could be one Yates and two Meintjes.

Tank - Kamaz trucks, those inelegant but rugged machines, can power over all terrains and are manufactured in Naberezhnye Chelny (Набережные Челны), Tatarstan. By coincidence, another inelegant but rugged machine that can power over all terrains and rejoices in the name Ilnur Zakarin, was manufactured in the same town.
1. True. I think though that Meintjes is also just holding on.

2. Thanks for the answer. I did think of Zakarin, but a) the image of a preying mantis does not go with a truck, b) I can't see any salvation from that source. True, it was a downhill finish which is the worst terrain for a Kamaz, but I can only see him as possible top-5.
Meintjes is the worst type of GC rider imaginable. His presence actively hurts races. At least with some guys riding defensively to rely on their TT is a viable strategy for the podium, but he's not one of them. He's good enough to stay with the best, but seemingly never good enough to take a turn or try to gain anything. His entire modus operandi is "fall backwards as slowly as possible".

I don't believe Zakarin can or will win the race, but he's a wildcard because of his tendency to lose time at unexpected times and try to win it back at even more unexpected times, which a GC mix made up of negative racers like Meintjes desperately needs; he's too dangerous to be allowed too much rope, and he doesn't have that same paralyzing fear of losing 7th place that some seem to.
 
Feb 27, 2016
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Mayomaniac said:
Poels is just not constant enough to ride for gc in a gt, the guy often even has bad days in one week stage races.
Pozzovivo was sick after Poland (apparently a Virus), so him being good on this stage is actually great news, he was a bit unsure about his form.
The biggest problem for Pozzo is Bardet
 
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Robert5091 said:
Set your clocks for live video at 12:55pm CET (6:55am U.S. Eastern). Anything could happen today.

Looking at the map, the descent does not seem to have many hairpins so it should go quickly.

Edit - just seen today's sprint - with a 3 second bonus - is at the base of the last climb. Extra incentive to be first to the climb.
Dawg went for the bonus seconds .... now we have ... who's gonna be second or on the podium.

Zzzzzzzzzz ......
 
Well at least Sky animated the race today and forced the selection contrary to the Tour where it was a lot more conservative. I have no problem with it as long as they do that, but they won't, obviously, since Froome has a big TT in his hand. Its good their team is superior as long as they use it offensively as they did on the last climb, then I cant complain.
 
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Billie said:
Netserk said:
That reminds me, does anyone remember the Der Untergang cycling parody were the two girls are the Schleck brothers? I've searched for it before, but I haven't been able to find it again. I think Hitler is Johan Bruyneel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWEXcTo4W7A&bpctr=1503352750

it's not the leopard trek one with the schlecks and cancellara though..
Very nice, but it's not in the same league as the other one. Unfortunately, I think it's lost forever. It probably was from 2012, I think.

Valv.Piti said:
Well at least Sky animated the race today and forced the selection contrary to the Tour where it was a lot more conservative. I have no problem with it as long as they do that, but they won't, obviously, since Froome has a big TT in his hand. Its good their team is superior as long as they use it offensively as they did on the last climb, then I cant complain.
Aye, no safety car today.
 
Apr 16, 2011
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Re: La Vuelta '17 stage 3:prades Conflent>Andorra la Vella 1

Chaves looked so easy following Froome today. I remember how close he was in the 2016 Giro, missed his performance at the Vuelta last year, but this seems like he has a new level. Maybe I was just ignoring (rooting against :lol: ) him before; now I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do.
 
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swissfr said:
Mayomaniac said:
Poels is just not constant enough to ride for gc in a gt, the guy often even has bad days in one week stage races.
Pozzovivo was sick after Poland (apparently a Virus), so him being good on this stage is actually great news, he was a bit unsure about his form.
The biggest problem for Pozzo is Bardet
He won't be in 3rd week
 
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rick james said:
wwabbit said:
Poels seems to have taken over Henao's role from the Tour de France...
again at last years Le tour, Poels was getting dropped early doors all the time until the 3rd week. I wouldn't read too much into it
At last year's Tour Poels was consciously avoiding doing any work in the first week, so as to save himself for later in the race. That isn't the situation here.
 
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
 
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Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
 
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HelloDolly said:
Froome was talking about himself and Poels being up on GC yesterday ...so Poels was hoping for a good GC

another rider people on here think should lead at GTs....great climber but too inconsistent over 3 weeks
Poels seems to have a lot of trouble in early mountain stages especially. Not the first time. Since he was always this inconsistent it doesn't surprise me anymore.
I don't know why Poels himself keeps believing. Could be a great stage hunter or KOM guy, but not GC.

I think the main problem with his inconsistency is mental. If he isn't feeling great, he can't "bite through" rather gets desillusioned and kinda 'gives up'. Compare that to most GC guys on a bad day, they usually manage to limit the damage rather well and live on to fight another day (Nibali, Froome, basically every top GT rider). In that aspect Poels is very much like TJ Van Garderen. On a bad day, it's horrendous. It's done.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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dirkprovin said:
Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
I truly find it astonishing that 3 people who are just 25 and have achieved so much, are said to have reached their limits in terms of abilities.
I mean, Adam Yates has already become 4th in the Tour de France (at the age of 23) and you think that a Top 5 in GT's is his ceiling!? Crazy!

Simon Yates - 6th Vuelta (24), 7th Tour (24)
Adam Yates - 4th Tour (23), 9th Giro (24)
Louis Meintjes - 10th Vuelta (23), 8th Tour (24), 8th Tour (24)

Whereas I am, admittedly, more skeptical about Meintjes's abilities, you must be joking if you say that all 3 riders above, all 25 now, will always be Top 10 GT riders.
 
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Ruby United said:
dirkprovin said:
Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
I truly find it astonishing that 3 people who are just 25 and have achieved so much, are said to have reached their limits in terms of abilities.
I mean, Adam Yates has already become 4th in the Tour de France (at the age of 23) and you think that a Top 5 in GT's is his ceiling!? Crazy!

Simon Yates - 6th Vuelta (24), 7th Tour (24)
Adam Yates - 4th Tour (23), 9th Giro (24)
Louis Meintjes - 10th Vuelta (23), 8th Tour (24), 8th Tour (24)

Whereas I am, admittedly, more skeptical about Meintjes's abilities, you must be joking if you say that all 3 riders above, all 25 now, will always be Top 10 GT riders.
Don't understand me wrong.
I mean The Yates are on their limits now I guess which will change in the future, step by step! I believe in them and I'm a fan!
 
Re: Re:

Oliver said:
Ruby United said:
dirkprovin said:
Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
I truly find it astonishing that 3 people who are just 25 and have achieved so much, are said to have reached their limits in terms of abilities.
I mean, Adam Yates has already become 4th in the Tour de France (at the age of 23) and you think that a Top 5 in GT's is his ceiling!? Crazy!

Simon Yates - 6th Vuelta (24), 7th Tour (24)
Adam Yates - 4th Tour (23), 9th Giro (24)
Louis Meintjes - 10th Vuelta (23), 8th Tour (24), 8th Tour (24)

Whereas I am, admittedly, more skeptical about Meintjes's abilities, you must be joking if you say that all 3 riders above, all 25 now, will always be Top 10 GT riders.
Don't understand me wrong.
I mean The Yates are on their limits now I guess which will change in the future, step by step! I believe in them and I'm a fan!
I cannot see the Yates win a GTs as they dont have the mentailty I believe
They are followers. not leaders

Anyway they are up against Dumoulin, Chaves, Quintana, et who are showing far more with more all round ability
 
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Blanco said:
swissfr said:
Mayomaniac said:
Poels is just not constant enough to ride for gc in a gt, the guy often even has bad days in one week stage races.
Pozzovivo was sick after Poland (apparently a Virus), so him being good on this stage is actually great news, he was a bit unsure about his form.
The biggest problem for Pozzo is Bardet
He won't be in 3rd week
Hmm.

No.
 
Re: Re:

Ruby United said:
dirkprovin said:
Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
I truly find it astonishing that 3 people who are just 25 and have achieved so much, are said to have reached their limits in terms of abilities.
I mean, Adam Yates has already become 4th in the Tour de France (at the age of 23) and you think that a Top 5 in GT's is his ceiling!? Crazy!

Simon Yates - 6th Vuelta (24), 7th Tour (24)
Adam Yates - 4th Tour (23), 9th Giro (24)
Louis Meintjes - 10th Vuelta (23), 8th Tour (24), 8th Tour (24)

Whereas I am, admittedly, more skeptical about Meintjes's abilities, you must be joking if you say that all 3 riders above, all 25 now, will always be Top 10 GT riders.
I am not seeking to put down ANY of these three riders in any way as they are all very good riders by any measure.

However, I do not see that any of them have any major "top-side" on top of what they have already acheived in a GT barring some exceptional race where a number of major contenders are "taken out" by exceptional circumstances. Do any of them have any particular "weapons" that may propel them up from being top5 or top 10 men to real posium contenders ?

Are any of these 3 riders exceptional TTers ? No. At best, they may do well in a mostly uphill TT but on longer flatter courses, all of them are likely to be shipping minutes to the better GC TTers. Do you care to debate this point ?

Are any of them the brand of climber with killer acceleration who can split a contenders pack ? At GT level, no.

The most adventurous of the 3, on GT showings, would be SY but even his best moments have come (at last year's Vuelta) from being "unmarked" by the other contenders or being seen as a decoy for Chaves.

None of them pack killer sprints although either Yates may be able to sneak a win here or there in reduced contenders finish.

These are my rational for stating what I did .... my apologies if they offend.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
Oliver said:
Majka said after Pologne that he was tired en won't go for the GC. That can explain his timeloss yesterday.

About Yates brothers, I think they are still on their limits against the big names in top form that's why they follow wheels. If they feel they can't lose that much they try something at the end of the race. Actually it would be nicer Simon goes for some stages after Tour de France.

Meintjes... I don't think he will get better.

Poels, always talking about GC but he just can't do it in a grand tour. He will be there in 3th week and Lombardije.
Re Yates brothers, I strongly suspect that top 5 - top 10 is their ceiling as regards GTs. Simon, I do think, is the more adventurous of the two but realistically he's likely to be dropping off over the next week or so and is unlikely to be a GC factor here given that he looked to be running on empty at the end of the Tour. Adam is more along the lines of Meintjes and certainly needs to learn to ride far better position at all times.

Meintjes' limit realistically is what we've seen ... lower rungs of the top10 barring an extraordinarily weak field or one where many of the peak contenders don't finish. To his credit, although its not one that may be aesthetically pleasing; he knows what works for him and what his limitations are .... he is a grinder rather than someone who has the capacity to make the big moves.
A challenging question - Who is the better rider Simon or Adam ? Who will end with the best palmares ? Who will be the better GC rider ? Their performance levels to date are similar - Think Adam may be a better GC rider and Adam a better One day racer, although their results are currently the opposite to my suggestion.
 

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