Question Lance Armstrong best watts/kg sustained

[2WpK]

He claims 6 and now this number is being repeated by others but what is the truth? Any hard evidence that he did 6 on a climb in the TDF?

 

[Divergence]

500 W for 30min I heard.

 

[Valv.Piti]

7 w/kg was the magic number at Madone, I guess thats about the best numbers he was able to do. He has said that was the target and that he reached that numbers before the Tours that he won

 

[2WpK]

500 W for 30min I heard.

Yes, these kinds of numbers are being repeated often these days. I suspect the source is Lance himself doing some revisionist history. What is the truth?

 

[Divergence]

Yes, these kinds of numbers are being repeated often these days. I suspect the source is Lance himself doing some revisionist history. What is the truth?

It was some podcast but I cannot remember which. Maybe Attia or whatever he is called. Why do not you believe the number?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Armstrong - Alpe d'Huez 495w, 7 w/kg for 37 minutes (tt)

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez. The Tour de France hits the famed climb today; but who are the fastest riders ever up it?

www.stickybottle.com

Not entirely sure if this is accurate though, seems a bit too high.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Armstrong - Alpe d'Huez 495w, 7 w/kg for 37 minutes (tt)

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez. The Tour de France hits the famed climb today; but who are the fastest riders ever up it?

www.stickybottle.com

Not entirely sure if this is accurate though, seems a bit too high.

Well, a TT is a fresh effort. So it's a different story than a climb at the end of a 7 hour stage with multiple climbs preceding it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Armstrong - Alpe d'Huez 495w, 7 w/kg for 37 minutes (tt)

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez

Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez. The Tour de France hits the famed climb today; but who are the fastest riders ever up it?

www.stickybottle.com

Not entirely sure if this is accurate though, seems a bit too high.

It looks way too high TBH. Since when is 1760 m/h of VAM on an 8%-ish climb anywhere close to 7 w/kg? I don't think I've ever seen an estimation over 6.4 w/kg for this kind of VAM (except some very shallow climbs). Even considering that he rode alone (i.e. additional 0.1-0.2 w/kg) it seems way too high.

 

[houtdffan]

the overall contenders in that era were MUCH LARGER than the jockeys of today. It makes sense the W/kg were quite a bit higher

 

[Krzysztof_O]

the overall contenders in that era were MUCH LARGER than the jockeys of today. It makes sense the W/kg were quite a bit higher

It's the opposite. Bigger guys need less w/kg to reach the same VAM (due to additional constant power needed to lift the bike, which for bigger guys is lower relative to their mass).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

ammattipyöräily calculated the w/kg of each major climb of the Armstrong Tours years ago. his best climb was the AdH TT in 2004 at 6.12. his best road stage was only 6.08 on AdH in 2001. so a long way off of what they were doing at this years Tour (and the two previous).

https://twitter.com/x/status/531497794239201281

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/531497794239201281

6.12 w/kg is his average power on major climbs, not his best performance though.

 

[zlev11]

6.12 w/kg is his average power on major climbs, not his best performance though.

yes i misread the graphic (i thought that was best single climb), i'm trying to find the tweets where he calculated each climb.

 

[zlev11]

here we go. i believe AdH is his best road stage performance at 6.27 w/kg

https://twitter.com/x/status/514469670087577601

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/514469670087577601

 

[zlev11]

here's 2004. 6.33 on La Mongie but that is a shorter climb. 6.35 in the AdH TT. funny that he was nearly a full 1 w/kg slower than Pogacar on Plateau de Beille despite destroying everyone except Basso.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It was some podcast but I cannot remember which. Maybe Attia or whatever he is called. Why do not you believe the number?

I am NOT endorsing the message here but a friend sent me this Instagram post because he thought it was funny. It has the clip of Armstrong talking to Peter Attia about his watts in 1999, FWIW

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8JSbjPpfKZ/?igsh=ejJzM3kzNzZheHcw

 

[Oldermanish]

Yes, these kinds of numbers are being repeated often these days. I suspect the source is Lance himself doing some revisionist history. What is the truth?

The truth was they kept fresh juice in the refrigerator at their training house. And he always suggested he was just doing what all the greats did. Maybe so but there were guys that rode clean, in spite of Lance's equivocation. Should those dudes get on program Lance would be their domestique. He's not Jordan....

 

[2WpK]

I'm definitely not trying to bring up all the old Lance crap but I keep hearing 500 watts for 30 minutes and I just don't find it credible in his era, even with the doping. I accept he did 6, that seems to be in line with other top climbers back then but 500 is closer to 7. He told Peter Atilla he did 500 for 30 min. but can that claim be backed up? How do we know he is not lying about that number?

 

[zlev11]

I'm definitely not trying to bring up all the old Lance crap but I keep hearing 500 watts for 30 minutes and I just don't find it credible in his era, even with the doping. I accept he did 6, that seems to be in line with other top climbers back then but 500 is closer to 7. He told Peter Atilla he did 500 for 30 min. but can that claim be backed up? How do we know he is not lying about that number?

it's possible he was able to do 500w for 30 minutes while completely fresh in training. his riding weight is listed as 75kg which would put him at 6.6 w/kg for 30 minutes. if he was able to do 6.35 (476w) for nearly 40 minutes on stage 16 of a grand tour then 500w for 30 minutes is very plausible. it's also possible it was actually around 485-490 and he was just rounding up for the sake of simplicity while talking on a non-cycling related podcast.

 

[dazaau]

I'm definitely not trying to bring up all the old Lance crap but I keep hearing 500 watts for 30 minutes and I just don't find it credible in his era, even with the doping. I accept he did 6, that seems to be in line with other top climbers back then but 500 is closer to 7. He told Peter Atilla he did 500 for 30 min. but can that claim be backed up? How do we know he is not lying about that number?

Why would it be less possible in that era, over this one? W/kg is indifferent to technology and they were doped to the gills. Even the nutrition side is not really relevant when we are talking about a fresh 30min effort.

 

[dazaau]

it's possible he was able to do 500w for 30 minutes while completely fresh in training. his riding weight is listed as 75kg which would put him at 6.6 w/kg for 30 minutes. if he was able to do 6.35 (476w) for nearly 40 minutes on stage 16 of a grand tour then 500w for 30 minutes is very plausible. it's also possible it was actually around 485-490 and he was just rounding up for the sake of simplicity while talking on a non-cycling related podcast.

I thought his racing weight at the tour was like 72.

 

[Hugh Januss]

With or without the drugs?

 

[2WpK]

Why would it be less possible in that era, over this one? W/kg is indifferent to technology and they were doped to the gills. Even the nutrition side is not really relevant when we are talking about a fresh 30min effort.

My point about the era is that the peloton produced less watts in general than they do now (even with epo) so it is unlikely that he had numbers that would make him competitive with today's best.

A small point on nutrition. It isn't just about the calories consumed during the race, it is the cumulative effect of being in a caloric deficit day after day for the whole TDF. Also, back in the day, the teams pretty much relied on whatever the hotel they were assigned to happened to provide for food. So you could have completed a massive race during which you did not consume enough and then get to the hotel and they serve you some vegetables and snails (ok a bit of an exaggeration but you get my point). Today, teams bring chefs and mobile kitchens so the riders get exactly what science says is optimal for them.

There are many other reasons why more watts are produced today than 20 yrs ago. Probably the most important is that kids as young as 13 or 14 are doing structured training using modern scientific principles and tools.

Also you can replicate much of the benefits of doping with epo with altitude training which is universal now.

I am still not convinced of the numbers Lance claims. Did he even have a power meter while racing?

 

[Gratemans]

He claims 6 and now this number is being repeated by others but what is the truth? Any hard evidence that he did 6 on a climb in the TDF?

Trying to find truth in the Lance universe.. yeah, good luck with that.

 

[dazaau]

My point about the era is that the peloton produced less watts in general than they do now (even with epo) so it is unlikely that he had numbers that would make him competitive with today's best.

A small point on nutrition. It isn't just about the calories consumed during the race, it is the cumulative effect of being in a caloric deficit day after day for the whole TDF. Also, back in the day, the teams pretty much relied on whatever the hotel they were assigned to happened to provide for food. So you could have completed a massive race during which you did not consume enough and then get to the hotel and they serve you some vegetables and snails (ok a bit of an exaggeration but you get my point). Today, teams bring chefs and mobile kitchens so the riders get exactly what science says is optimal for them.

There are many other reasons why more watts are produced today than 20 yrs ago. Probably the most important is that kids as young as 13 or 14 are doing structured training using modern scientific principles and tools.

Also you can replicate much of the benefits of doping with epo with altitude training which is universal now.

I am still not convinced of the numbers Lance claims. Did he even have a power meter while racing?

His claims are for a pre tour all out effort on his fave climb, with a power meter.

Anything more from me and I need to head to another part of the forum

 

[Krzysztof_O]

it's possible he was able to do 500w for 30 minutes while completely fresh in training. his riding weight is listed as 75kg which would put him at 6.6 w/kg for 30 minutes. if he was able to do 6.35 (476w) for nearly 40 minutes on stage 16 of a grand tour then 500w for 30 minutes is very plausible. it's also possible it was actually around 485-490 and he was just rounding up for the sake of simplicity while talking on a non-cycling related podcast.

His Tour weight was around 73-74 kg but we can assume 75 kg during preparation phase. I suppose 490-500 watts for 30 minutes could be possible in a standalone effort near the sea level (and climbs close to Nice, like Madonne, somewhat meet this criterion).