Lances Denials

[whocares]

Hey everyone. Please forgive me for posting as a recent July addition but this topic is very interesting to me and I hope you don't mind me posting in your forum.

His (LA) denials are so strong. There's no room for interpretation. It's almost as if he has some Ace up his sleeve to give him that kind of confidence to publicly denounce doping and the idea that he was apart of it.

At this point, I am well convinced that he doped so now I am more interested in what goes on in his mind.

I guess my question to the veterans on here is this. Is LA just a sociopath who thinks he is invincible or does he have some Ace in the hole that is going to clear all of this up (as has seemed to be the case throughout his career)?

 

[Biklett]

Remember David Koresh? Cult members or fans provide you with all you hear or want to know.

 

[Race Radio]

Same pattern as all of Armstrong's previous legal battles. Big public show for the groupies followed by quite settlement and claim of victory.

 

[theswordsman]

I guess my question to the veterans on here is this. Is LA just a sociopath who thinks he is invincible or does he have some Ace in the hole that is going to clear all of this up (as has seemed to be the case throughout his career)?

The only real card he has to play is the cancer survivor, popular celebrity one that he's always played. His denials really aren't strong, as he contradicts himself all the time, but expects people to believe both.

The most tested, never positive thing is first of all false, and otherwise a useless argument to people who follow the sport. Blood transfusions aren't detectable, even on the Biological Passport if you microdose with EPO to keep your blood values in the proper range.

He recently denied any ownership in Tailwind, claiming he was just a lawyer, but the Government will go through tons of paper to disprove that.

Intimidation and bullying won't work this time. His wealth won't help against the Feds. I forced myself to look at his recent twitter entries and hated that he's buddying up with someone like Speaker Pelosi while he's under Federal investigation, but if Sarkozy and the French can do it, what the heck. There's stuff that will be unearthed, and hopefully revealed to the public, that will finally get through to the general public.

Personally, I think the most obvious evidence against him is in storage in European labs, and I hope it all gets tested. One of the people who rote with/about him once asked his wife for hints as to how to get along with him. Her advice was to never make him feel cornered, because then he'll attack.

But like I said, his denials aren't very good, and he contradicts himself all the time.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Same pattern as all of Armstrong's previous legal battles. Big public show for the groupies followed by quite settlement and claim of victory.

Pretty sure you meant quiet settlement, but don't you think his people have told him that there is slim chance of that happening this time around, given what and who he is up against?

 

[NashbarShorts]

I think its merely a case of being invincible/untouchable for so long, you forget you are a mere mortal.

It probably is easy to convince yourself you are untouchable when you have the sport's cops (the UCI) in your back pocket. If you are never going to "fail" a drug test and are routinely tipped-off before surprise controls, of course you will come to believe that you can walk on water and scale tall buildings...

Which will make it even more interesting to see how it plays out. Lance has always said he "loves cycling", whereas the Landises, Manzanos, and Simeonis "hate cycling".

But the only way Lance could cop a "mea culpa" now would be to say, "well, everybody at the top of the sport does it to". Thus, he would be implicating the entire peloton. For a guy who was #1 enforcer of the omerta, it'd be damn near impossible to imagine he would do that to the sport he "loves". So yes, it should be interesting. Get the popcorn ready.

"You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!"

 

[Tim_sleepless]

He recently denied any ownership in Tailwind, claiming he was just a lawyer, but the Government will go through tons of paper to disprove that.

The arrogance of the man thinking that he would get away with that. But God knows what evil he must have done to think that sheltering under that umbrella would get him much sympathy.

Mind you, I guess he's never failed a law exam.

 

[Berzin]

His character doesn't make any sense to most average people, but he's been special most of his life.

He's always received adoration out of proportion to his feats, and has always had grown men grovel at his feet for an opportunity to swirl around his periphery.

And all for the chance to profit from said association (I'm thinking specifically of one Chris Carmichael, whose knowledge of exercise physiology doesn't go much farther than "extract of cortisone" injections).

The aura of association must be intoxicating for Armstrong as well, and I'm sure it would be difficult to stay grounded and humble if one's circumstances were similar.

I believe he thinks he won those 7 Tours fair and square, and will lie about it until the day he dies.

I'm not making apologies for his state of mind, I'm just trying to explain it.

Knowing dopers on the local level, these guys honestly believe they win because they work harder than everyone else.

They see the PEDs they take as the key that unlocks their hidden potential. And if everyone else is doing it and they win, it's because they were the most talented and hardest working.

This is how some dopers think. Go figure.

 

[python]

<snip>.

At this point, I am well convinced that he doped so now I am more interested in what goes on in his mind.

most serious followers of the sport share your conviction yet none of us can claim we know what's going on in his mind.
even a qualified psychologist would be merely speculating. there is a range of reasonable possibilities. some parallels can be drawn from historical portraits of cornered leaders with similar to lance's personalities. it ranges from entrenched stupefying denial to hopes of divine interference. remorse and self reflection are the last things one likely to expect from these mind sets where excessive self-identification with some cause is another common trait
(hitler w/german people, nopoleon w/enlightenment, armstrong w/cancer etc)

Is LA just a sociopath who thinks he is invincible

both imho.

does he have some Ace in the hole that is going to clear all of this up (as has seemed to be the case throughout his career)?

i don't think he has any if by ace you mean some killer evidence that he did not dope. at this stage,i really believe his only game is to out-lawyer and outlast his detractors on procedural, political and other technical grounds
(statute of limitations, counter investigations of novitzky, political appeals in washington etc)

 

[callac]

I
"You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!"

I can imagine this is what's going on in his head . As Berzin put it so eloquently, he is probably thinking he won because of harder work, that he should be very respected, and that the few annoying little voices who point out that it's not legal are just utopians who can't handle the truth.

And it's funny, I can imagine other quotes from this movie that could relate to 'institutionalized' team doping ... You won't find in any book/manual stating that you have to dope when you enter certain teams, but you "just follow the crowd at chow time".

 

[blackcat]

The aura of association must be intoxicating for Armstrong as well, and I'm sure it would be difficult to stay grounded and humble if one's circumstances were similar.

premise implicit in this is he did not seek the yes men.

but is not one of the criterion of anti-social pd, that they seek out those they can dominate.

no wonder he has the sycophants, because he invited and sought them. Betsy, Frankie, Floyd, were not gonna put up with his bs.

One star former US swimmer, who won gold at the Olympics, said Bill Stapleton was the most unethical person he had come across. And I think he only had exposure to him within his sphere of influence, the pool.

 

[Cloxxki]

All of a sudden I am reminded of Saddam Hussein.
The self made man, the adoration, the women, the denial, the arrogance, the jail time.

 

[hrotha]

Armstrong might be a sociopath, I don't know, but I don't think his denials have anything to do with that. Denying everything is what these guys have been taught to do, and what 90% of them do, at least at first.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

All of a sudden I am reminded of Saddam Hussein.
The self made man, the adoration, the women, the denial, the arrogance, the jail time.

Armstrong himself would probably love your comparison

 

[Cloxxki]

Armstrong himself would probably love your comparison

Yes I'm indeed unintendedly flattering him here. Which says more about Lance than about Saddam.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

I think we may be onto something here..

Mark Fabiani

Comical Ali

 

[powerste]

I think we may be onto something here..

Completely delusional shameless liar

Highly-compensated calculating professional shameless liar

Nice pics! I took the liberty of adding their job titles.

 

[powerste]

Hey everyone. Please forgive me for posting as a recent July addition but this topic is very interesting to me and I hope you don't mind me posting in your forum.

His (LA) denials are so strong. There's no room for interpretation. It's almost as if he has some Ace up his sleeve to give him that kind of confidence to publicly denounce doping and the idea that he was apart of it.

At this point, I am well convinced that he doped so now I am more interested in what goes on in his mind.

I guess my question to the veterans on here is this. Is LA just a sociopath who thinks he is invincible or does he have some Ace in the hole that is going to clear all of this up (as has seemed to be the case throughout his career)?

I think his denials continue to be so strong for a few reasons:
- He's personally incapable of diverging from the script after all these years of complete denial
- He's denied himself into a corner from which he really can't escape. Through his years of denying, he's made the stakes incredibly high.
- He probably believes that he didn't really cheat anyone since doping was/is the status quo. He just worked harder than everyone else. (As many of us read the evidence, he worked harder at doping as well.)

I don't see any "magic bullet" style aces. As Python pointed out, he will likely try to outlawyer, out-bs, and outlast (sounds like the tag line for a reality TV show!) the feds. I suspect that if the evidence is strong enough and the feds outlast him, he'll then roll over on anyone he needs to in order to keep his a$$ out of prison.

Finally, as to whether he's a sociopath, you can read about that here:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9855

 

[crispy]

On a somewhat lighter note, this reminds me of an old Seinfeld episode where Jerry has to take a lie detector test and George tells him "just remember, if you believe it then it's true".

 

[LanceInMyPants]

Lance Armstrong Martini

It's all speculation on LA's mental health and motivation but I used to be a bartender and if I made a signature cocktail for LA it would be as follows:

1 shot sociopathic
1 shot assholishness
1 shot megalomaniac

shake in a cup with ice, cortisone, epo, testosterone
serve straight up in a glass the size of TEXAS
splash of insincerity garnish with lies
I'd call it the AA or arrogant ***

 

[Benotti69]

Remember David Koresh? Cult members or fans provide you with all you hear or want to know.

do you think the fanboys on here are former Koresh members that got out before the fbi torched the place..

 

[Benotti69]

I think his denials continue to be so strong for a few reasons:
- He's personally incapable of diverging from the script after all these years of complete denial
- He's denied himself into a corner from which he really can't escape. Through his years of denying, he's made the stakes incredibly high.
- He probably believes that he didn't really cheat anyone since doping was/is the status quo. He just worked harder than everyone else. (As many of us read the evidence, he worked harder at doping as well.)

I don't see any "magic bullet" style aces. As Python pointed out, he will likely try to outlawyer, out-bs, and outlast (sounds like the tag line for a reality TV show!) the feds. I suspect that if the evidence is strong enough and the feds outlast him, he'll then roll over on anyone he needs to in order to keep his a$$ out of prison.

Finally, as to whether he's a sociopath, you can read about that here:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9855

i think this is what most of the big names believe and keep telling themselves as they keep taking the PEDs, but in Armstrong's case he truly believes it and everyone around him, Hog, Carmichael, Stapleton etc...has been telling him since 98 that "it levels the field Lance your the best man and deserve to prove it to the world" bla bla bla bla.....

hopefully the science will come up in the court and prove that he was never naturally a TdF winner without PEDs and that will undermine the 7 wins without the need for a positive test from each year.

 

[Berzin]

I wonder what the Tour organization will do about his 7 victories.

Will they stand in the record books? They certainly don't deserve to, but even if the statute of limitations has run out on his earlier wins, he certainly needs to be stricken from the record books in some fashion.

No way he deserves to be honored as the rider with the most Tour wins.

The record should be put back to 5 and shared among those who are part of that club. He should never be mentioned amongst those riders with 5 wins.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I wonder what the Tour organization will do about his 7 victories.

Will they stand in the record books? They certainly don't deserve to, but even if the statute of limitations has run out on his earlier wins, he certainly needs to be stricken from the record books in some fashion.

No way he deserves to be honored as the rider with the most Tour wins.

The record should be put back to 5 and shared among those who are part of that club. He should never be mentioned amongst those riders with 5 wins.

I imagine ASO etc. won't do anything dramatic unless there is a huge public outcry. They're pretty famous for sitting on their hands and turning a blind eye. If the fan population goes balistic, then some retroactive expulsions from the books may occur, but I certainly don't have a lot of faith in anything overtly fair or just coming from them...

 

[callac]

I wonder what the Tour organization will do about his 7 victories.

Will they stand in the record books?

They can officially stay in the books but not be taken seriously... Like the 10.49 of Florence Griffith-Joyner. Something not to be repeated, and with this obscene touch that makes people put a huge asterisk on it. Something worthless, except for a few people who can't put two and two together.