Lancestrong training vs Euro team training

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the laughs and information. It does make sense for the superpower's like lance, contador, etc can afford to concentrate on one or two races per year because of the sponsor coverage and prestige. Its a shame that unless you really follow the sport you miss out on the other great athletes who perfrom well all season without alot of glory. Makes me respect George Hincapie, leipheimer etc ( Im american so I notice the american names more, sorry, no offense to the europeans ) even more for consistency. This season I paid more attention to the younger riders because the old names got a season or two left and thats it.

Well, one thing you can do is to give a bit of time to learning about the many other riders who perform consistently better than any current American rider. In fact, there was a great race (a Classic in fact) today won by a man named Philip Gilbert. I am not being caustic here; it is well worth your time, if you truly want to enjoy cycling, to learn a bit about riders from other countries. I too root for some American riders because I am from the US. However, I also know that as a whole, our nation is not one of the top overall countries for producing excellent riders. I believe that in that pursuit, you will also see that the claims of the superior training techniques by Mr Armstrong and his propaganda wing are a bit overstated.

 

[Moondance]

Well, one thing you can do is to give a bit of time to learning about the many other riders who perform consistently better than any current American rider. In fact, there was a great race (a Classic in fact) today won by a man named Philip Gilbert. I am not being caustic here; it is well worth your time, if you truly want to enjoy cycling, to learn a bit about riders from other countries. I too root for some American riders because I am from the US. However, I also know that as a whole, our nation is not one of the top overall countries for producing excellent riders. I believe that in that pursuit, you will also see that the claims of the superior training techniques by Mr Armstrong and his propaganda wing are a bit overstated.

I don't know about that. Cycling as a pro sport is still relatively young in the US, but judging over the last, say, 25 years i can really only put Spain and Italy and possibly Belgium ahead of the US as producing top riders. The US excels in quality over quantity, which is partially a by product of the lack of top teams (itself a result of the much greater amount of sponsorship money available in Europe) and the lack of good, high profile races in the US (I think if the Tour of California is a good prospect to get some change in that department). The only way to earn good money as a cyclist is to ride the European races, and that probably turns off a good number of people. It's surprising quite surprising that the US has been as successful as it has in the sport, where it occupies, at best, a niche in the sports market.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I don't know about that. Cycling as a pro sport is still relatively young in the US, but judging over the last, say, 25 years i can really only put Spain and Italy and possibly Belgium ahead of the US as producing top riders. The US excels in quality over quantity, which is partially a by product of the lack of top teams (itself a result of the much greater amount of sponsorship money available in Europe) and the lack of good, high profile races in the US (I think if the Tour of California is a good prospect to get some change in that department). The only way to earn good money as a cyclist is to ride the European races, and that probably turns off a good number of people. It's surprising quite surprising that the US has been as successful as it has in the sport, where it occupies, at best, a niche in the sports market.

I definitely agree. Hopefully the N.A. calendar will continue to grow and develop, and hopefully there will be a trickle down effect from high profile races like the Tour of Cali and even the Canadian Pro Tour races.

 

[ggusta]

So you want us to die because you are a fan of Lance Armstrong and don't want to read things that challenge the myth of your hero worship? I think we can all agree that is kind of harsh, no?

According to the message boards I read, that's not too harsh at all, at least from a few posters.

 

[zealot66]

I used to get Universal Sports and was able to keep abreast of races and riders better. Now the only tv coverage is versus and they focus on American riders. The only way I can follow the races is online and I spend an inordinate amount of time surfing and reading. Its kind of like if you are a football fan you tend to know and follow the home town team because you arent going to get coverage and media interaction locally from a team across the country. Thinking about some of the posts, the PR machine of LA is as masterful as the Obama campaign was in the elections. You wouldnt know anyone else was even competing.

 

[BroDeal]

I used to get Universal Sports and was able to keep abreast of races and riders better. Now the only tv coverage is versus and they focus on American riders. The only way I can follow the races is online and I spend an inordinate amount of time surfing and reading.

You can get a lot of video and audio on the Internet. If you want to learn a bunch, listen to eurosport during a race. Sean Kelly is always very astute about what is going on.

 

[Moondance]

You can get a lot of video and audio on the Internet. If you want to learn a bunch, listen to eurosport during a race. Sean Kelly is always very astute about what is going on.

Shame I can barely understand him. He has an almost comically thick accent.

 

[hmronnow]

TFF you crack me up dude!

You would be surprised how many people think I live in Austria and not Australia.

Have also heard some good old yarns about people who were flying to Austria and somehow ended up in Australia.

I'm currently based in switzerland. Once a texan company shipped my goods to Swaziland !)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm currently based in switzerland. Once a texan company shipped my goods to Swaziland !)

Was it Mellow Johnny's?

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know about that. Cycling as a pro sport is still relatively young in the US, but judging over the last, say, 25 years i can really only put Spain and Italy and possibly Belgium ahead of the US as producing top riders. The US excels in quality over quantity, which is partially a by product of the lack of top teams (itself a result of the much greater amount of sponsorship money available in Europe) and the lack of good, high profile races in the US (I think if the Tour of California is a good prospect to get some change in that department). The only way to earn good money as a cyclist is to ride the European races, and that probably turns off a good number of people. It's surprising quite surprising that the US has been as successful as it has in the sport, where it occupies, at best, a niche in the sports market.

What about Australia???

Maybe over the last 10 years, I think we edge out the USofA, in terms of producing
many top riders (note the plural)

4 Green jerseys, 3 GT podiums, multiple GT stage wins with the sprinters, olympic medals on the track, 3 time consecutive TT champion, WC in the RR, numerous smaller one day races.. of course i'm biased tho

 

[ggusta]

Was it Mellow Johnny's?

you beat me to the punch line

 

[Cloxxki]

I'm currently based in switzerland. Once a texan company shipped my goods to Swaziland !)

I'm in the Netherlands. A company from Seattle sent my bike frame to Namibia. Surprisingly, it was never recovered. A 29" steel frame, olie green. I wonder who rides it now.

 

[craig1985]

I used to get Universal Sports and was able to keep abreast of races and riders better. Now the only tv coverage is versus and they focus on American riders. The only way I can follow the races is online and I spend an inordinate amount of time surfing and reading. Its kind of like if you are a football fan you tend to know and follow the home town team because you arent going to get coverage and media interaction locally from a team across the country. Thinking about some of the posts, the PR machine of LA is as masterful as the Obama campaign was in the elections. You wouldnt know anyone else was even competing.

Try http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl, you have to sign up when you visit the page, but it takes all of 2 minutes to do.

 

[fatandfast]

There is no euro way vs Lance way. The UCI should have a huge chunk of money for anybody who can win the triple crown. Armstrong will race 1 tour because science tells him to. The days of real hard men are replaced with rest and recovery. Now that the tour of California will push on the schedule watering down the competition even more.

 

[progressor]

Try http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl, you have to sign up when you visit the page, but it takes all of 2 minutes to do.

Awesome! Thank you muchly!!

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

but judging over the last, say, 25 years i can really only put Spain and Italy and possibly Belgium ahead of the US as producing top riders.

UCI World Ranking: Nations top 10
1. Spain 1,756 points
2. Italy 984
3. Australia 960
4. Germany 753
5. Belgium 675
6. Russia 660
7. Luxembourg 563
8. Netherlands 544
9. Norway 538
10. USA 528

For what it's worth...

 

[Moondance]

UCI World Ranking: Nations top 10
1. Spain 1,756 points
2. Italy 984
3. Australia 960
4. Germany 753
5. Belgium 675
6. Russia 660
7. Luxembourg 563
8. Netherlands 544
9. Norway 538
10. USA 528

For what it's worth...

Okay.... One year doesn't disprove my assertion. They ranked 2nd (ahead of Spain) in the UCI ProTour nation rankings in 2005.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Honestly, I get sick of these pieties about how innovative, fresh-thinking Americans revolutionized stuffy European approaches to cycling. It's an overdetermined narrative: it's used to explain too many different (and contradictory) things. I've read stories in which the multi-leader, improvisational strategy of CSC and Columbia is traced back to 7-11, as against some imagined old-school hierarchical approach; and I've read stories in which Armstrong's authoritarian, single-leader strategy is praised as a product of American organizational excellence, vs. the haphazard "let's bring a sprinter and a climber and a time-trialist and see what happens" approach of those lazy, amateurish Euros. Well, which is it?

 

[SteveMedcroft]

Be careful with this bit-torrent based website that some users refer to on these forums. If you are sharing video through the internet that is copyrighted to not allow it, you may be doing something illegal - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_BitTorrent.

 

[poupou]

Okay.... One year doesn't disprove my assertion. They ranked 2nd (ahead of Spain) in the UCI ProTour nation rankings in 2005.

Not sure that your ranking reflects the talents, but more the "training" methods and power of Doctors.

 

[Spare Tyre]

What about Australia???

Maybe over the last 10 years, I think we edge out the USofA, in terms of producing
many top riders (note the plural)

4 Green jerseys, 3 GT podiums, multiple GT stage wins with the sprinters, olympic medals on the track, 3 time consecutive TT champion, WC in the RR, numerous smaller one day races.. of course i'm biased tho

And a population of only 22 million.

Of course I'm biased too.

 

[72 merckx]

Visiting australia

I'd go except for the poisonous snakes, spiders,octopus,ants,toads,kicking kangaroos and whatever else that bites there. Oh yeah and the big sharks and the salt water crocs. It's a restful family vacation spot.

 

[kurtinsc]

I can remember other riders doing that quite a few years before LA
Delgado didn't ride the Vuelta in 1988. He chose the Giro to prepare the Tour and was the target of harsh criticism by Spanish media at the time.
And I don't remember Greg Lemmond focusing on anything else than the Tour when he returned after his accident. You may say that Greg is American but he had been riding in European teams since he became pro.

I don't know about what Lemond focused on... but he did win the World Championships after his accident, as well as the Tour Dupont (which was the major US road race before folding) and several one day races in France. I can't tell you how many of those were races he focused on rather then just being more talented then everyone else in the field even out of form, but his TDF focus seemed a bit less then what Armstrong has done.

Pre-injury his focus was much more spread. For example in 1986 he was 3rd in the Tour de Suisse, 3rd in Paris-Nice, 2nd in Milano-Sanremo, 3rd in the Criterium International, 1st in the Tour, and won a stage in the Giro.

Overall in his career, he recorded top 3's in the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, World Road Championships, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Paris-Nice, Milano-Sanremo, Tour de Suisse, Dauphine Libere, and Pais Vasco. That's a pretty varied group of results for a rider

 

[kurtinsc]

What about Australia???

Maybe over the last 10 years, I think we edge out the USofA, in terms of producing
many top riders (note the plural)

4 Green jerseys, 3 GT podiums, multiple GT stage wins with the sprinters, olympic medals on the track, 3 time consecutive TT champion, WC in the RR, numerous smaller one day races.. of course i'm biased tho

Australia has some fine cyclists... but in comparison the US in the last 10 years has had 11 GT podiums (7 wins) spread amongst 3 riders (Armstrong, Leipheimer, Hamilton). We also have gold and 2 bronze medalists in the olympic road time trials (Hamilton, Armstrong, Julich) and a track gold medalist (Nothstein). A track world championships too (Phinney).

If you lump track cycling in, Australia definitely has the edge. US track cycling has been pretty pathetic for the last 15 years or so. But as far as the road goes, you're only really talking about 3 riders for Australia right? Evans has all the GT results, McEwen has all the sprint results and Rogers has all the TT results. Or has someone like Baden Cooke won a points title at a GT? The only other GT top 10's would be from Bradley McGee for Australia (once) and Tom Danielson and Christian Vandevelde for the US (twice each).


My view is that Australia probably has the overall edge in producing cyclists in the last 10 years. It's pretty close just looking at the road and leaving track out, but when it comes to GC contenders, the US has a clear edge in both quantity and quality.

The US pretty much produces GC guys, climbers and time trialsists. We don't produce much in the way of top level sprinters, classics guys, puncheurs or the like. But we tend to produce very good riders in those areas we do produce in.

 

[L29205]

I don't know about what Lemond focused on... but he did win the World Championships after his accident, as well as the Tour Dupont (which was the major US road race before folding) and several one day races in France. I can't tell you how many of those were races he focused on rather then just being more talented then everyone else in the field even out of form, but his TDF focus seemed a bit less then what Armstrong has done.

Pre-injury his focus was much more spread. For example in 1986 he was 3rd in the Tour de Suisse, 3rd in Paris-Nice, 2nd in Milano-Sanremo, 3rd in the Criterium International, 1st in the Tour, and won a stage in the Giro.

Overall in his career, he recorded top 3's in the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, World Road Championships, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Paris-Nice, Milano-Sanremo, Tour de Suisse, Dauphine Libere, and Pais Vasco. That's a pretty varied group of results for a rider

Don't forget wins in the Coors Classic in 81 and 85. IMHO, The Coors Classic was the first true Pro Tour level race in the US. To bad Coors decided to change their marketing direction.

Also, one thing to consider is that after LeMond, the team captains had contracts that could afford them the ability to focus on a single race. When you are not concerned about the prize money being your true salary you can adjust your training style to focus on the race of choice.