Landis considers return to Tour de France

[TexasTad]

Second, there is exactly zero chance that Landis would ever be allowed to appear at the TdF. It's not his choice.

Then it seems that the rules don't have much meaning. Guilty or not (see my earlier post) he's served his time. If he's singled out now for special treatment, or maltreatment, that's just spite. I prefer organizations to be run by rules, not emotions.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think part of the reason Floyd was popular at the ToC this year is that he had a rather congenial attitude to the press, and talked to a lot of fans. He didn't come out swinging and combative, only saying he didn't really want to talk about he past and was just happy to be back riding. While not an admission of guilt in his past, he did seem a little contrite. This is a far cry from the way Tyler Hamilton seems to continually be caustic and completely unrepentant about his past.

I should note I'm not a supporter of Floyd. I think he doped, and made an a** of himself and mockery of the sport in his hearings. Floyd will never ride in the TDF without some sort of amazing revelation either reversing his case, or a total confession that is contrite and fully accepted by everyone. Meaning: It's not going to happen. None the less, he did serve his sentence, so as long as he stays modest, and rides clean, I have no problem him racing for a team like Ouch.

Stay clean Floyd.

 

[cody251]

You cannot wrap your mind around metaphors because you get a woody over a narcissistic p$%ck who is in the business of drawing attention to himself more than ANY cause. Just look at the comeback material printed and passed out during the last few months. It all has a great big picture of ONE PERSON on it. What I talk to children who have cancer has nothing to do with cycling. But go ahead, make yourself feel better with your righteous indignation, it suits you and your hero.

Wow, you really don't like him. I still don't get the rage some of you have on the internets. I'm wondering, have you had this type of conversation with anyone in person? Me thinks not. Again, who are your favorite cyclists? I'm guessing you don't even like cycling, you've just found another place to squat and flap your feathers.

So when you want to spread the word and raise awareness for a cause, would you put up a picture of you or one of the most popular athletes and most recognised faces of said cause? Marketing 101. Unfourtunetly it takes big money to fight big diseases.

Yes, I have. My mother.

I'm sorry, I'm missing several coworkers, a best friend and family too.

 

[cody251]

Then it seems that the rules don't have much meaning. Guilty or not (see my earlier post) he's served his time. If he's singled out now for special treatment, or maltreatment, that's just spite. I prefer organizations to be run by rules, not emotions.

I agree, how is Floyd different from any other rider that has served their time? The problem with cycling is that it is run by emotion and then words like "rules" and "legal" are used to describe things that are far from that.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not about JUST Lance, it's about the use of the word if reference to someone who battled and beat the same disease millions are trying to beat themselves. Call him a cheat, an A$$hole, whatever, I don't care, just THINK about cancer and what it means.



How is this any different from YOUR obvious distaste for Lance? He didn't ride a bike for years and did more for cancer than he did on it. You don't like him, I do. I don't care about his personal life, I'm a fan of his cycling and his cancer story. I don't care if you hate him, just be choice with your metaphors as a courtesy to those who have cancer and symbolize LA as inspiration.

What you don't understand is the level to which I despise a man walking around using his cancer to get his picture taken. He does the disservice to cancer patients everywhere for being a media ***** who needs to promote Lance more than anything else in the world. I find dope fiends who live a life that is all about them and has little to nothing to do with anyone else disingenuous when they portray themselves as just selfless servants of _________________. That is who Armstrong is in my estimation, and that is not only a cancer to cycling, but a cancer to cancer research and programs everywhere.

 

[pantanifan]

How about this reality

Landis 1 TdF victory
Texas mate 7 TdF victories

Contador and Basso between them 1TdF victory

Would you like a little butter on that? or some vegemite?

Better yet, let's see what happens come late July of this year and late July of next year...fair enough? I'd be happy to remind you, "last km." You'll still be around, right? We could call this a "gentleman's bet." If my calculations are correct, the odd's would be in your favor...two against one, at least for this year.

Competition is for the competent.

Landis & LA are two reasons, I'm not looking forward to the TDF.
Atleast not in the same manner of recent years.

Any lingering respect for Landis, was bannished after his "personal tactics" in court towards Greg Lemond.
Would you like a little butter on that? or some vegemite?
Greg Lemond I respect.

If LA kept his opinions to himself, and respected instead of bullying.

He maybe respected by more people than he is.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, you really don't like him. I still don't get the rage some of you have on the internets. I'm wondering, have you had this type of conversation with anyone in person?

Why yes, I have. In fact, I would have it with you in person. I don't hide my opinions, it is just who I am.

Me thinks not. Again, who are your favorite cyclists? I'm guessing you don't even like cycling, you've just found another place to squat and flap your feathers.

Those are posted on another thread, but little man, I have been watching cycling since the 80's so try again.

So when you want to spread the word and raise awareness for a cause, would you put up a picture of you or one of the most popular athletes and most recognised faces of said cause? Marketing 101. Unfourtunetly it takes big money to fight big diseases.

Funny, I also worked with kids who had other deadly diseases. I can tell you for certain, people flock to get their picture taken with a kid who has a chemo bag hooked up to them. It is interesting how many fewer their are who champion other deadly childhood diseases. Funny, Lance doesn't even do that. It is just a big picture of his head.

Just remember that cancer can be beaten without anyone riding a bike.

 

[Henri Desgrange]

Roid is one deluded guy, not only does he think the ASO will let him ride their race again, but is for some reason still thinks he won it, er no Roid you lost that particular honour (along with your dignity) when you put that Testosterone patch on your balls.

 

[Non Grimpeur]

Lance Armstrong's legacy is the work he has done for the cancer community. He has faced and conquered a horrible disease and has given an immense amount of his time and energy into helping people less fortunate than him. However, we should be under no illusion that he is a nice guy. His conduct towards others in cycling is similar to that of a playground bully. Either you are with him or against him. I think that he should be given the benefit of the doubt given that he has not been convicted of doping offences but given the doping problems that have plagued cycling for years it is not unreasonable for people to question apparently effortless climbing and very high average speeds. Paul Kimmage,David Walsh ,Greg Lemond and other have a right to express an informed opinion. The way that Lance has reacted to them is nothing short of disgraceful. If I was him, I would been completely transparent with blood tests, VO2 max and power outputs. If he has nothing to hide?

 

[The Falcon]

Who are YOUR favorite cyclists? We already know CapeRoadie hates all pro cycling, but what about the rest of you?

Brad McGee.....an outstanding talent on the track and had a reasonable career on the road. A man of principal, and i'd wager the house that he rode clean. If we was chemically enhanced and barring bad luck he would have been a grand tour contender.

 

[patricknd]

Testing of the 1999 samples scientifically proved that Armstrong was doping yet the ASO is letting The Cancer ride this year. Armstrong did more to discredit the TdF results than Landis ever did.

I will place a bet that Basso will ride the TdF next year.

 

[Tom Morris]

i was diagnosed with cancer seven weeks ago, and i find comments about "the cancer" reprehensible.

1. cancer may well take my life and you're equating that with cheating in sports.

2. the laf and livestrong website have proven to be an invaluable resource for me so far, so if armstrong has helped one person, and he has, i'd say that's more than most of the haters have

I was diagnosed with cancer, went through surgery and then chemotherapy. I find Armstrong's lying and defrauding the cancer "community" beyond despicable. It's Bernie Madoff-type behavior. If Armstrong wants to help those with cancer then he should start by telling the truth. He should stop lying about racing clean.

 

[Jarvis]

So much material; so little time:
Jody

I agree, how is Floyd different from any other rider that has served their time?

Landis spent all his time denying and fighting on technicalities. He got a massive amount of money given by gulliable fans - which is why he can never admit to doping as that will be a lot of money to have to re-pay. The one simple fact was that he was found with testosterone in his blood. Chances are he re-injected blood withdrawn earlier in the year that had traces of testosterone in it.

Millar 'fessed up without even testing positive, that is why I'll give him a chance. Lord, even Basso admitted in the end.

 

[BroDeal]

Landis spent all his time denying and fighting on technicalities. He got a massive amount of money given by gulliable fans - which is why he can never admit to doping as that will be a lot of money to have to re-pay.

I doubt FLandis got a "massive" amount of money from fans. Funds like that rarely raise much money. I would be willing to bet that he did not raise even $50K.

Millar 'fessed up without even testing positive, that is why I'll give him a chance. Lord, even Basso admitted in the end.

Millar denied it. He attacked Paul Kimmage. He attacked his teammates. He only confessed when the police found empty EPO vials in his residence and arrested him. That hardly qualifies as fessing up on his own volition. There is little difference between FLandis and Millar.

Basso told a ridiculous lie that he only planned to dope during the 2006 TdF. This was after a performance in the Giro that Simoni described as extra terrestrial.

The fact remains that FLandis served his time just like Basso and just like Millar. If the UCI or ASO is allowed to blackball riders outside the rules of the sport then we have a system where the rule of law is replaced by corruption and punishment is determined by who you know or who you have paid off or who you have personally ****ed off.

EDIT: You have to be freaking kidding me. You cannot write p-i-s-s-ed off here! Is this a joke?

 

[James Jordan]

Testing of the 1999 samples scientifically proved that Armstrong was doping yet the ASO is letting The Cancer ride this year. Armstrong did more to discredit the TDF results than Landis ever did..

Tests that even the biggest Lance hater (**** Pound) had to admit were inadmissible because:
-had not been handled properly since once opened;
-were tested with the providers name being known;
-used a testing procedure that was experimental and has yet to be presented for peer review; and
-the Australian study which proved that EPO, both artificial and natural, would not have remained testable for that length of time under the conditions in which the samples were store.

To be honest I am neither here nor there about Lance coming back but if you are going to slander someone make sure you have your facts right.

As for Landis I have to admit the way the lab handled his case has also got some serious questions to be answered, but at the end of the day the experts have confirmed his conviction for doping. I will be happy if ASO do the right thing and show him, Basso, Ricco and all the other dopers the feelings of disappointment that the fans have for them and never let them back into the TDF.

 

[BroDeal]

Tests that even the biggest Lance hater (**** Pound) had to admit were inadmissible because:
-had not been handled properly since once opened;

Nothing but a smoke screen designed to explain how nazi frogmen might have spiked Armstrong's samples even though no one at the lab knew which samples belonged to Armstong.

-were tested with the providers name being known;

The lab had no knowledge who the samples belonged to. The lab still does not know because it never had possession of the doping forms controlled by the UCI.

-used a testing procedure that was experimental and has yet to be presented for peer review; and

The test used is the same one used today.

-the Australian study which proved that EPO, both artificial and natural, would not have remained testable for that length of time under the conditions in which the samples were store.

The developer of the EPO test recently stated that the results of the retrotesting were scientifically valid and that there was not a scientific question about Armstrong doping. He also said that EPO remains stable at the temperatures that the samples were stored at.

To be honest I am neither here nor there about Lance coming back but if you are going to slander someone make sure you have your facts right.

Yes, maybe we should get the facts right before slinging FUD.

Let's also review the three other riders who we know also had positives in the 1999 retro-testing.

Triki Beltran: Tested positive last year for CERA
Bo Hamburger: The first rider caught by the EPO test. Got off on a technicality. After he retired he admitted that he had used EPO.
Jose Castelblanco: Served a two year suspension for doping. I don't remember the details.

Curious how the other three riders who tested positive all turned out to be dopers. Pure coincidence I am sure. Amazing how the retro-testing, which according to you could not have detected artificial EPO managed to detect three riders who all turned out to be dirty. Amazing.

Armstrong has been given the opportunity to have the 1999 samples retested. He has refused. That says everything.

 

[CapeRoadie]

Wow, you're dating yourself, fancy slang that makes you angry. Sorry, "those who dislike Lance Armstrong". Cliché, sure. Overused, no. You just spent several lines giving it meaning so welcome to the "not making sense club”. Maybe one day I'll be a fancy writer and I can look some classic words up for you. I’ll leave my first attempts along the way….

"Overused" is the definition of cliche, so I'll let readers decide who's not making sense here. My point (that you missed) is that Armstrong fanboys like you who use cliches like "hating on" always miss the fact that cycling fans like me are allowed to have mixed feelings about Armstrong, or any other rider, for that matter. I'm sure that as I read the tripe you're about to post below that you'll miss that point again.

What position would that be? The greatest American Cyclist ever? You don’t like him, you can’t stand him, perhaps disrelish his accomplishments? He comes BACK and creates the biggest buzz around cycling. IS that what you’re mad about? He retires, comes back and is the most popular and most disliked cyclists in the world. You and some others are blurring the line between your distaste for him, and the LAF. You don’t have to like him, really you don’t.

Is he the "greatest American cyclist ever"? Does your fanboy status begin in 1999? What about Greg Lemond (who had a higher VO2max)? How about Major Taylor (you can go and Google that name right away). An Andy Hampsten deserves mention. Does a guy who pretty much trained and raced one GT per year qualify? If Armstrong doped his way to the top, and who had a team that had doped up domestiques to drag him to victory every year, does that count? I'll leave that to others to decide.

I'm not "mad" about Lance Armstrong. I don't disagree that he creates a huge buzz around cycling through his return. I don't disagree that his cancer foundation is doing very good things or that he is genuinely interested in making a difference to cancer patients. All of that is good.

I'm not blurring any lines. He's a mixed bag. We are allowed to have mixed feelings. Maybe that's beyond your comprehension. Armstrong has a good side AND a bad side. Imagine that.

Great, good for smarty- pants-Kimmage. I’m saying, calling LA a “cancer “no matter what you mean is completely inappropriate and a blatant smear to people who are hit by this disease.

Kimmage was calling doping in cycling a cancer long before Lance contracted the disease. Did you not read the article? And no, it's not a "blatant smear" to anyone with cancer. We all know people with cancer, and that's not their take on this at all.

So how can you say his return is symbolic over the return of any other rider in the pro peloton? In fact, I question why you even follow cycling, or any sport for that matter with statements like this. There has always been doping, so how can you single out LA and his “era” as being ANY worse? Perhaps your permanent aversion to Lance should spread to ALL of cycling! As a member of the NMSC you just won a Member’s Only jacket!

It's symbolic because he's the guy who doped as much or more than anybody, never got caught, and remains in denial. Bad enough that Hamilton and Landis can't admit their drug use after getting caught, but omerta persists because of the riders who DON'T get caught. Arsmtrong is their poster boy.

Paul Kimmage can be the expert, Grand Poobah of whatever, and you can believe everything he says because he is “trustworthy”. Your disfavor for LA and his presence should NEVER be referred to as a “cancer”. There are much more appropriate things one with so much aversion to LA can use. Given his history and what his foundation is supporting, CANCER is not it.

Too late.

You “call out” LA, state your abhorrence for him, blast the entire pro peloton and still take the time to post to a cycling forum so we can see how balanced you are. Congrats, you’ve just been voted president of the club.

But I don't hate him. I disrespect many of the things he's doing, and respect many others. He's a mixed bag. I was right: you see things as either black or white. You've just been voted narrow-minded and myopic and Cliche of the Club. How typical.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I've been missing those short posts of yours, Doc.

I see this thread has been nicely morphed into another LA battleground.

BD: I thought Hamburger got caught twice? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure he served a ban.
I remember when his positive came down the pipeline. It was at the Tour of Romandie.
Every said what a nice guy he was and how it must be some kind of mistake.
He trotted out, the now standard denials.


Back to Floyd and could he ride the Tour.
Much said about fairness; treat him like the rest.
OK, well in terms of teams, other than Basso, he has, in signing for a smaller squad.
ALL past dopers and OP refugees have signed for lesser teams.
So, in that respect, were OUCH to get a Pro-Conti licence, they could enter the wildcard pool.
Incidentally, this was what Rock Racing intended to do.....but didn't.

So realistically his one and only bet, is to sign for the only PC team guaranteed a Tour wildcard: Agritubel. Best of luck with the transfer, ( no patch pun intended) Floyd!

 

[75kilos]

Take away all the stuff about doping, etc, blah...and you're left with the simple truth: if he comes back he'll get his *** kicked. It's too latenow -he had his chance and blew it.

 

[patricknd]

I was diagnosed with cancer, went through surgery and then chemotherapy. I find Armstrong's lying and defrauding the cancer "community" beyond despicable. It's Bernie Madoff-type behavior. If Armstrong wants to help those with cancer then he should start by telling the truth. He should stop lying about racing clean.

 

[BroDeal]

BD: I thought Hamburger got caught twice? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure he served a ban.

You are probably right. I just remember him being caught for EPO, proclaiming his innocence. and getting off for a dodgy B test. In the book he wrote a couple of years ago he admitted using EPO and HGH.

Too bad he is gone. I still remember Ligget saying at one point, "Hambuger is--dare I say it--fried." Classic.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Dunno......I may be thinking of Pascal Herve.
Hamburger got a ban from the Danish fed, but a walk from our lads at the UCI.

 

[cody251]

Is he the "greatest American cyclist ever"? Does your fanboy status begin in 1999?

Fanboy, nice touch. I don't have the time or patience to go around and around but its nice to see you've softened a bit from your original post. For the record, I remember watching Lemond win the worlds and the TdF as a kid and how excited when over 10 years later another great American cyclist came along to win the TdF.

It's symbolic because he's the guy who doped as much or more than anybody, never got caught, and remains in denial.

This is completely unfounded, how does one "dope more than anybody" but not test positive? Your making diamonds out of coal!

You've just been voted narrow-minded and myopic and Cliche of the Club. How typical.

How narrow-minded of you to think that fans of a rider that you don't like are "wrong" and delusional "fanboys". You fill in all your HUGE gaps with whatever fits your opinion and pawn it as gospel. How typical? You are the classic arrogant cycling fan, with a "I'm better than you" attitude. You assume because of my defense of a specific rider that I'm less of a fan or less knowledgeable, therefore inferior. I'm going to do my own assuming and bet your the a$$hole that screams at everyone at your local weeknight road races but still finishes mid-pack only to blame "all the idiots" for screwing you.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Take away all the stuff about doping, etc, blah...and you're left with the simple truth: if he comes back he'll get his *** kicked. It's too latenow -he had his chance and blew it.

Truth. Thanks - can we put this thread to rest?

 

[cyclelicious]

true that DC, such a simple and logical answer shines through all the WUM mess in the middle.