Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[Ferminal]

It will be portrayed that Floyd made it all up in order to extort money.

Indeed, should win him over another 10% of the media currently "skeptical" towards him.

 

[MacRoadie]

It will be portrayed that Floyd made it all up in order to extort money.

An allegation of alleged criminal activity which will invite/require additional state/federal investigations.

Seems to me that no matter what is said (and I'm sure it will be very aggressive and ugly), RS and Armstrong can't do anything without inviting further scrutiny.

 

[JA.Tri]

IMHO FL has greater credibility than LA.

The issue is the venue of examination: if in the media, then yes, FL credibility suffers somewhat in comparison to LA... however I guess to the truly informed media maybe not much difference...

In the courts and before legal investigators the real issue will be facts first and credibility second. I recon the Federal investigators (ala Marion), will obtain substantial evidence supporting FL's contentions...

Look forward to the coming days.

 

[thehog]

This tweet preceded it.
A statement from @TeamRadioShack's counsel re: recent allegations is forthcoming. Will b quite a few email exchanges that r very interesting

This is exactly what Landis wants. Armstrong and co. would have been up all night cutting and pasting emails together ready to present their case. Lance needs to release enough information to hang himself. Then Floyd will drip feed the rest. No one is talking at the moment. They’re all too scared because they don’t know what information Floyd has. Landis is smart to say he has nothing. But we all know he has got a lot of hard stuff and he needs to hold on to that for now.

 

[Oldman]

An allegation of alleged criminal activity which will invite/require additional state/federal investigations.

Seems to me that no matter what is said (and I'm sure it will be very aggressive and ugly), RS and Armstrong can't do anything without inviting further scrutiny.

Very much so. If Floyd's willing to expose himself to charge of blackmail LA's going to expose much more. You've got everyone running for counsel in the background and someone is going to crack...who's got the most to salvage by stepping forward?

 

[RTMcFadden]

EPO is not illegal to possess in many European countries. I think Floyd would have to prove Armstrong sold him the EPO rather than just gave it to him.

Giving = distribution. Unless he's a registered pharmacist or a licensed physician, it's illegal.

 

[Barrus]

This is exactly what Landis wants. Armstrong and co. would have been up all night cutting and pasting emails together ready to present their case. Lance needs to release enough information to hang himself. Then Floyd will drip feed the rest. No one is talking at the moment. They’re all too scared because they don’t know what information Floyd has. Landis is smart to say he has nothing. But we all know he has got a lot of hard stuff and he needs to hold on to that for now.

I myself do wonder, is Lance really naive enough to believe Landis would have nothing to back it up, especially with the feds involved, for god knows how long. Or does he think he is untouchable, for the best thing to do for Lance would be to at least briefly fade into obscurity until this blows over, especially in the mainstream media. If he goes after this allegation of Landis with full force and everything this will only work against him in the general perception, ESPECIALLY in Europe where he already isn't one of the best loved persons around

I always thought of Landis as a sad (not in the bad way of the word, but someone to feel pity for) not too bright person, but I think he played this really good. He has nothing to lose, people who are against him and won't listen to him already think he is crazy and those that are not as biased are likely to believe him at this point, especially since most real cycling fans are as cynical as they come.

 

[MacRoadie]

I find the idea of posting a response to Floyd's allegations, including emails, to be a bit risky and amateurish, especially if it comes from, or is endorsed by, "@TeamRadioShack's counsel".

A more legally prudent approach would seem to be one of less response rather than more. Stooping (if you will) to the level of "he said, she said" seems a bit haphazard to me.

TeamRadioShack's lawyers can't come up with a better strategy than "Oh yeah? You have emails? Well, we have emails too!"

 

[workingclasshero]

hmmm ..... wonder how many dollars charitable old lance has made from advertisers in the last hour as i'm surely not the only one who's been hitting f5 repeatedly to refresh http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/ in the last 60 minutes or so ....

 

[Publicus]

I find the idea of posting a response to Floyd's allegations, including emails, to be a bit risky and amateurish, especially if it comes from, or is endorsed by, "@TeamRadioShack's counsel".

A more legally prudent approach would seem to be one of less response rather than more. Stooping (if you will) to the level of "he said, she said" seems a bit haphazard to me.

TeamRadioShack's lawyers can't come up with a better strategy than "Oh yeah? You have emails? Well, we have emails too!"

They are just trying to further impugn Landis' credibility so that the focus shifts from what Landis has said to Landis' credibility problem. In short, Armstrong is hoping to take control of the situation so that whatever comes out is viewed through the desired framing/lens.

The problem I think he has is that when someone is attempting to blackmail you it is because they have incriminating evidence on you. So yeah Floyd may get pinched, but the incriminating evidence is going to come out too. So I'm not sure what Armstrong's end game is here, but I'm going to enjoy watching it all play out....

AND HOW SHlTTY IS THIS FOR THE TOUR OF CALIFORNIA? WHY COULDN'T HE HOLD THIS UNTIL AFTER THE RACE?

 

[Ferminal]

hmmm ..... wonder how many dollars charitable old lance has made from advertisers in the last hour as i'm surely not the only one who's been hitting f5 repeatedly to refresh http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/ in the last 60 minutes or so ....

Was all a scam to increase the size of his war chest.

 

[McLaren]

I went to team radio shack and couldn't see anything. Where is this new stuff?

 

[rolfrae]

Well couldn't all this be dealt with by undertaking some retroactive testing on Lance at al's old samples? Aren't they all stored? Could they be looked at for more than EPO/HGH?

 

[McLaren]

AND HOW SHlTTY IS THIS FOR THE TOUR OF CALIFORNIA? WHY COULDN'T HE HOLD THIS UNTIL AFTER THE RACE?

It's too late for that, don't you think? It's already been ruined. I don't think you can hang that at Lance's door. He didn't start it.

 

[MacRoadie]

They are just trying to further impugn Landis' credibility so that it the focus shifts from what Landis has said to Landis' credibility problem. In short, Armstrong is hoping to take control of the situation so that whatever comes out is viewed through the desired framing/lens.

Oh, I understand the motivation. I'm just surprised it is coming in the form of a release sanctioned by TeamRadioShack's legal counsel.

The strategy seems more at home in a Twitter post or a DemandMedia press release.

Smearing is usually done by the PR folks: the smell and stains don't show up on them as well.

 

[Publicus]

It's too late for that, don't you think? It's already been ruined. I don't think you can hang that at Lance's door. He didn't start it.

True. But this pending email dump is in his control. This is their big stage today. I'm sure sitting on the emails for a couple of days wouldn't change anything for anyone.

 

[Barrus]

It's too late for that, don't you think? It's already been ruined. I don't think you can hang that at Lance's door. He didn't start it.

Problem is that we don't know who did it, this is something I'm really interested in, is there some employee, either at one of the doping agency, or at one of the sponsors, who is disgruntled with the current approach by these groups and really wants to clean this sport up? If so, that person deserves to come out and become the new president of the UCI

 

[Anonymous]

It's too late for that, don't you think? It's already been ruined. I don't think you can hang that at Lance's door. He didn't start it.

Sure you can, The Uniballer could have gotten honest years ago about his drug habit. He didn't and now the ToC is suffering. Now BPC you mentally ill troll, another of your names goes in my "Ignore" pile.

 

[palmerq]

i think this is all a masterplan by vinokourov to get contador out of the tdf.... some how....... obviously astana needed to keep contador when vino came back to get the pro tour licence and get them into some earlty season races... now that this has been accomplished and vino is doing well, astana have a good chance of getting into the tdf without contador(Maybe:S)....... so when bruyneel gets caught contador will be under suspicion due to their past works..... so contador misses the tour and vinokourov never lied to contador about supporting him during the tour or have to stage a hostile leadership change during the race.... what a genius vinokourov is.......... this would be good for that lance armstrong film too an evil german and an insane soviet villian..

 

[markene2]

i think this is all a masterplan by vinokourov to get contador out of the tdf.... some how....... obviously astana needed to keep contador when vino came back to get the pro tour licence and get them into some earlty season races... now that this has been accomplished and vino is doing well, astana have a good chance of getting into the tdf without contador(Maybe:S)....... so when bruyneel gets caught contador will be under suspicion due to their past works..... so contador misses the tour and vinokourov never lied to contador about supporting him during the tour or have to stage a hostile leadership change during the race.... what a genius vinokourov is.......... this would be good for that lance armstrong film too an evil german and an insane soviet villian..

 

[gree0232]

Scrollwheel fodder.

Excellent response. Basically indicates:

1. Not taking time to let a situation develop.

2. Mind already made up - no point in discussing.

However, as I wrote earlier, there is a lot more to this than the euphoria of vocal Armstrong bashers. This has always been my biggest beef with Armstrong bashers, in that they love to point out the information and are absolutely astonished when the system doesn't convict Armstrong. The implication being that the system is flawed. It isn't flawed, it operates on evidence (or lack therefor) and the standard in being at least 50.1% right either way. So far, that standard has not been met with Armstrong, and it sure as hell hasn't been met with just about anyone that Landis accussed.

Here are a couple of scenarios.

1. Contador's metoric rise happened under JB. Ergo, he is now a doper?

2. Tom Boonen, coke head? Yes. Systemic doper? Apparently.

3. Tom Danielson. Doper.

4. Dave Z. Doper.

5. George Hincapie. Doper.

6. Christian Vandevelde. Doper.

7. Lief Hoste. Doper.

8. Oscar Periro, who rode with Landis, doper. What does that mean for the 2006 TdF?

9. He has effectively accussed the manager of Team BMC of supporting organized doping, with the implication that it continues today.

Are we now going to accuse Cadel Evans of doping because he rode for T-Mobile? And now the tainted BMC Team?

The sport cannot function with this kind of finger pointing acrinomy. In our zest to 'get' Armstrong we cannot simply ignore the wider implication of what Landis is saying which is pretty much that everyone is doped - only without any evidence to back it up.

I think the Lance Bashers are in for another rude introduction to an evidence based system. You get to call a guy a convicted doper when he or she is convicted of doping. It simply cannot function any other way.

Contador? Lots of specualtion for Liberty Team and then JB's squad. Never proved anything so he is not a doper.

Landis? Tested positive and sanctioned (and now admits it). Doper.

Tyler Hamilton? Twice tested positive. Doper.

Lance Armstrong? Never convicted. (Due to teflon coating, does it matter?) Not a doper.

Again, all of these guys may be doped to the hip, but we cannot make decisions about doping based on what we suspect or even accuse. We must make decisions based on what we can prove. The sport simply cannot function any other way.

 

[Ferminal]

...

You forgot Levi Leipheimer.

Oh wait...

 

[BroDeal]

Sure you can, The Uniballer could have gotten honest years ago about his drug habit. He didn't and now the ToC is suffering. Now BPC you mentally ill troll, another of your names goes in my "Ignore" pile.

Just report him when he pops up and let the mods delete his posts and ban his new account.

And people should stop responding to this sh!tstain.

 

[Jonathan]

Again, all of these guys may be doped to the hip, but we cannot make decisions about doping based on what we suspect or even accuse. We must make decisions based on what we can prove. The sport simply cannot function any other way.

I don't really understand your point - do you think that this forum is the place where decisions are made? Exactly what decisions are you talking about here?

If someone "may be doped to the hip," is it wrong to try to argue about this likelihood, and to have an opinion about that?

 

[gree0232]

I think what happens next is going to have the most impact. If someone comes forward and corroberates Landis's claims, then the issue will gain traction. If no one does, the issue not only dies but Floyd is done - totally.

This was a huge gamble, and if no evidence pops out to back these claims he will thoroughly have discredited himself. Thus far, the condemnation of these accussations has been universal, except from long term Lance Bashers like Kimmel.

In a system that is, and must be, run based on evidence, that is not a good sign for Floyd.

For those who think Lance cannot ride the Tour now .... based on what might be said about him (its been said a long time and has had zero effect on Lance) or because of Tour rules (who have zero love or affection for Landis) they may be sorely disappointed.