Later on tonight, a second rate Australian rider

[roundabout]

Meyer will be the first non-sprinter to win since TDU got bumped up in status. Even the great LL Sanchez could only finish second to a sprinter.

 

[Mambo95]

Why do so many people act as if potential = greatness in the here and now.

I don't. I just said that he wasn't 'second rate'.

I suppose that when a 23 year old Indurain won the 1988 Tour of Catalonia, you would have derided him as a second rate Spaniard.

Let's see what Meyer becomes before saying he's rubbish.

 

[The Hitch]

Meyer will be the first non-sprinter to win since TDU got bumped up in status. Even the great LL Sanchez could only finish second to a sprinter.

Thats kind of like Cadel Evans not being allowed to go in the break but Rinaldo Nocentini being allowed to get in a break and hold the yellow jersey for a week.

 

[ak-zaaf]

What dose being Australian have to do . it is Summer in Oz and if Australian cyclist are not at peak for the Australian Road champs they should be .

Note absence of some top riders Evans. O'Gradey etc from the championships. they dont want to get their but kicked by young riders they are set goals for later.
All that form will go and then they have to come back later in the year.
So what dose being Australian have to do with it means we live up side down to europe while you freez we bake in the heat.

We didnt race much road in Summer a few years ago it was track season but John Trovorrow started the australian summer of cycling in 1994 and its kicked in to something big.
is that a good thing ????? Well I dont like turning up for bike races with 10 layers of kit on so it has to be better.

That was great. I didn't understand half of it, but still great.

/edit: Please tell me you're actually Russian or something like that.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Thats kind of like Cadel Evans not being allowed to go in the break but Rinaldo Nocentini being allowed to get in a break and hold the yellow jersey for a week.

No, every race follows the exact same patern with the same type of riders each year. That's why we all hate this sport so much.

 

[The Hitch]

No, every race follows the exact same patern with the same type of riders each year. That's why we all hate this sport so much.

huh?

 

[ak-zaaf]

huh?

Sorry. Just got annoyed by people thinking 'same course = same race'.
Reacted sarcastically to you trying to talk sense into them.

 

[ferryman]

Sorry but I would call myself patriotic, not nationalist. Nationalist is something that should be despised.

Hey Aus94, wasn't referring to you, sorry if you took it that way. It's the OP that has the problem.

 

[Sanitiser]

What dose being Australian have to do . it is Summer in Oz and if Australian cyclist are not at peak for the Australian Road champs they should be .

Note absence of some top riders Evans. O'Gradey etc from the championships. they dont want to get their but kicked by young riders they are set goals for later.
All that form will go and then they have to come back later in the year.
So what dose being Australian have to do with it means we live up side down to europe while you freez we bake in the heat.

We didnt race much road in Summer a few years ago it was track season but John Trovorrow started the australian summer of cycling in 1994 and its kicked in to something big.
is that a good thing ????? Well I dont like turning up for bike races with 10 layers of kit on so it has to be better.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Ferminal]

I don't. I just said that he wasn't 'second rate'.

I suppose that when a 23 year old Indurain won the 1988 Tour of Catalonia, you would have derided him as a second rate Spaniard.

Let's see what Meyer becomes before saying he's rubbish.

Yes, "second-rate" is the wrong term, "developing" or "fledgling" is much more suitable.

Plus, Goss should win anyway. Nor does it matter... the points are "too much" regardless of who wins it. No race winner is any more/less deserving of the points on offer than an historically "superior" rider.

The bigger problem with the TdU is not the points handed out, but the lack of invites to teams outside the 18.

...and the bigger problem with the rankings is not the differences (or similarities) in the TdU and HIS calendar, but the non-inclusion of all races in all categories (CQ). Erm, but didn't they change this? What is the balance like. How many Tour of Turkeys equal one TdU?

lol @ my fractured post.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I would if the arcane rules didn't result in Britain getting 3 riders at the worlds, because everyone is now on the 'pro-tour' so we're below madeupistan in the artificially seperated continental rankings.

Well, try having your riders in more than one team so that they can pick up ranking points in more races then. More of them will get a chance to shine that way, too.

 

[usedtobefast]

No particular offense meant (although I'm not averse to getting a rise out of Evansfan), I just don't believe we should call everyone excellent.

This is professional road racing, and non of the possible winners have achieved half of what is necessary to be first rate - the term becomes meaningless if applied to more than 20 people in a given field.

i agree. this is the case in all walks of life. unless your name is Bill or Ted. and that is a different story. no offense to the TDU, but the TOC is better, and still
it is not Paris-Nice.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Compared to all the other PT stage race champions, Meyer just isnt in ther league. Its as simple as that.

but if you look at the field - he beat Cavendish, Farrar, Mckewen, Greipel ..... he beat the best sprinters in the world. So for mine, that makes his race top class.

I do agree the points are not right for this event. But then - the UCI stuffs everything up. Why would this be any different

 

[M Sport]

Plus, Goss should win anyway.

The most sensible sentence of this thread.

 

[msjett]

There are a lot of second rate riders out in the pro-peloton, without them the first rate riders would have noone to work for them, and we wouldn't be able to pick out who the first rate riders are.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Would you consider him capable of winning any other race on the WorldTour calendar? I know I wouldn't. Not yet, at least.

ENECO. The same move by the same riders with the same luck could give a rider like Meyer roughly the same chance to win that race. And there too, there'd be a strong chance that he'd lose to a sprinter in the end. Any sprinter's race inherently gives a strong breakaway a chance to win the overall if the sprinter's teams botch the chase.

 

[Ferminal]

The most sensible sentence of this thread.

In hindsight...

 

[M Sport]

In hindsight...

Haha ... we can only call it as it should logically pan out. We can't help the team stuffing up the lead out trains

 

[ingsve]

ENECO. The same move by the same riders with the same luck could give a rider like Meyer roughly the same chance to win that race. And there too, there'd be a strong chance that he'd lose to a sprinter in the end. Any sprinter's race inherently gives a strong breakaway a chance to win the overall if the sprinter's teams botch the chase.

The diffrence is that Eneco Tour has a ITT so anyone who wants to win usually needs to show at least two talents.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

+ Eneco always has a Flanders & an Ardennes (& an "amstel gold race'?) stage.
But I agree these stages aren't decisive enough. Too much bunch sprints.

 

[Tuarts]

This thread is a

 

[Dewulf]

Can we not make this a nationalist thread where people try to insist black is white out of patriotism.

It is patently laughable for a race which is purely used as base miles by any genuinely good riders with a hope of winning major races later in the year (honourable exceptions to the odd genuinely decent Australian sprinter), to be accorded such a weight in the process of picking world championship points.

I'm all in favour of breakaways winning occasionally and so on within a stage race, but when a GC is decided by a 20 second breakaway, it tells you all you need to know about the futility of the race.

Oh have a winge, you poor pommie baby, you only get to send 3 riders, w/e. I mean I would have more sympathy because yes the UCI's system has countries like I think Iraq (?) fielding more riders than the UK (which yes is crazy), but listen to yourself..."it doesn't go for 99 days or up Mount Everest, it must be a $hit race". Just a tad elitist there methinks.

However to give you a moment's consideration (and apologies to all if this has already been said), the points for the TdU serve to:

a) incentivise attendance at a race far from Europe, and this is fair enough..if you're going to ask them to go all that way, yes, you have to give something in return.

b) Make it worthwhile for top riders to attend...and the field at this year's TdU (just for example), was anything but second rate.

c) recognise that these guys left it on the road. I'm not a huge fan of sprinting, would rather watch guys killing each other on a mountain, BUT there should be races for all types, and with top guys attending the outcomes have been exciting, and yep the winner of a week long race deserves the same points as mr.5th place TdF.

 

[Tuarts]

There's a lot of good UK riders this year. I'd be surprised if you only get 3 riders with results from the likes of Cavendish, Swift, Dowsett, Millar, Blythe, Hammond, Thomas etc the riders would have to have a catastrophic year not to get at least 5...

 

[ultimobici]

Can we not make this a nationalist thread where people try to insist black is white out of patriotism.

It is patently laughable for a race which is purely used as base miles by any genuinely good riders with a hope of winning major races later in the year (honourable exceptions to the odd genuinely decent Australian sprinter), to be accorded such a weight in the process of picking world championship points.

I'm all in favour of breakaways winning occasionally and so on within a stage race, but when a GC is decided by a 20 second breakaway, it tells you all you need to know about the futility of the race.

With all due respect, you opened the door to nationalism with your jingoistic comment right at the beginning.

I would if the arcane rules didn't result in Britain getting 3 riders at the worlds, because everyone is now on the 'pro-tour' so we're below madeupistan in the artificially seperated continental rankings.

By all means bemoan the fact that the points awarded are too high for the race's stature, but to use terms like you did in the above post as well as labelling a rider "second rate" undermine the rest of your argument which is a valid criticism.

 

[Dewulf]

Compared to all the other PT stage race champions, Meyer just isnt in ther league. Its as simple as that.

But the idea of stage races is that you have some stages for sprinters, some stages for climbers. Prefferably a tt as well. Best all round rider wins.

You dont have any stage races with 7 mtfs, why should there be a race with 7 sprints.

"other PT stage race Champions"? I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting Meyer is in that top bracket of riders yet. Then again, no race is won solely by the individual rider is it. Meyer largely got the lead through the smarts of Wilson who knew just how to string the peloton along, tho Meyer had the strength to finish it off after that.

The point is, any stage race could be won this way, through teamwork and smarts, and no doubt some have. Therefore winners of those stage races stand alongside Meyer, who is therefore not second rate.

But the idea of stage races is that you have some stages for sprinters, some stages for climbers. Prefferably a tt as well. Best all round rider wins.

You dont have any stage races with 7 mtfs, why should there be a race with 7 sprints.

The Willunga Hill stage was won by LL Sanchez last year (the first year they did the hill twice), this year Meyer got away to win a stage....it's not necessarily 7 sprints.

And it's a season opener race, that's why there are no mountains, the pros have made it pretty clear this is what works for them.