Law for cyclists to comply with the same rules as drivers?

[Tonton]

Re: Law for cyclists to comply with the same rules as driver

One major problem is that the French, in general, are undisciplined. This means that all user groups of the public space (pedestrians, cyclists, drivers just to name a few) tend to show little respect for the rules and other users. Implementation of the "Idaho stop" could lead to chaos, or maybe those who already act like idiots will continue to do so and those who are responsible will continue to be so.

Another problem here is that we often don't have the space in our cities for separate cycling infrastructure. When there is the space, there isn't a cycling culture so most roadway modifications totally ignore the needs of any users other than cars. There is a huge lack of awareness and knowledge among roadworks departments, except in a few regions.

I love that one . That's probably why I always followed the Idaho Rule even when not legal . On a more serious note, lack of discipline is widespread: it's not a French/Italian monopoly (and I know you didn't mean/write that). Living now in the US, people are just as bad. And bike lanes are often no more than the shoulder of the road, with debris of all sorts. That's the problem, I think. These bike paths/lanes were designed with users as an after-thought. Politicians said so, a few "fonctionnaires" got it done, too often putting at odds car drivers and bike riders.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

The Idaho Rule makes cyclists safer because it resolves conflicts before they occur. Whenever a cyclist (is due and) takes the right-of-way at, say, a 4-way intersection, with a cager waiting for him to pass, he necessarily is in conflict with that motorist because their individual objectives (negotiating the intersection and being on their merry way) are not simultaneously achievable.

And all humans make misteaks. Sometimes we drive impaired. Tired. Distracted. Drunk. Sometimes we lose our temper and lash out at the source of our vexation. Or a convenient scapegoat. But motivations neither soften nor harshen the blow when cyclist is struck by tonne and half of Ellesmere Port steel. The Idaho Rule gives cyclists the potential to avert conflicts by not stopping under some circumstances where it is the act of stopping itself that produces the conflict. Blow through the intersection and you are gone before the motorist arrives.

What's more, because our speed over the roadway almost universally is substantially less than that of all motorised traffic. So we have substantially more time before reaching the intersection, time in which to -- case-by-case -- ruminate upon whether there is even any material need to stop. The same lack of speed that makes us so vulnerable at intersections also provides us the ideal aid in deciding -- to paraphrase The Clash -- "Should I stop or should I blow?" Which also illustrates why The Idaho Rule has no application to operation of motor bikes or scooters. Because they do not suffer from the cyclist's profound speed deficit, and because the motor bike's pistons, which are fed from a great bag of dead dinosaurs, are not fatigued by endless stop and restarts.

And while cagers will tend to see the decision as self-serving, truth be told it benefits us both, because our averting the conflict with them also obviates them of their obligation to yield right-of-way and sit, stopped, waiting while the idiot in the carnival-coloured shirt and tight breeches (and fumbling for the proper side of the pedal to clip into) ambles across the intersection before them.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Law for cyclists to comply with the same rules as driver

Great post, extremely well written, yet, as I brought up, if you generalize the Idaho Rule, you will find proponents or arguments designed to expand it to mopeds: a bogey in Switzerland goes about 30-40km/hr (although Cancellara's goes a lot faster ), which makes some of your point not so solid. Same goes for a mobylette or any 50cc moped. Discussing a change will bring a lot of "but" from what I would call "libertarians".

IMO it's a great rule, I have always done it that way, watching for traffic (and cops), and the same goes for sneaking between cars at a red light.

 

[winkybiker]

An interesting statistic on the behaviour of motorists was brought to my attention this week. On a stretch of Vancouver suburban road, reducing the lane widths brought the average amount that motorists exceeded the posted speed limit down to 18km/hr from 31km/hr. These are the AVERAGES.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re:

An interesting statistic on the behaviour of motorists was brought to my attention this week. On a stretch of Vancouver suburban road, reducing the lane widths brought the average amount that motorists exceeded the posted speed limit down to 18km/hr from 31km/hr. These are the AVERAGES.

There was a time when posted speed limits (at least in some places) were scientifically derived. The theory goes that 85% of all drivers habitually will operate their vehicles in a safe and reasonable manner based on the prevailing conditions, and only 15% are devil may care. So they would measure the speed of the traffic over a particular stretch of roadway to determine the 85th percentile of all vehicle speeds, and that is where they would peg the speed limit. That the motorists slowed when the roadway narrowed would seem to support that theory. The majority have are governed by a sense of self-preservation.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

Yep, under the imperious Duncan Gray they're close to banning cycling on the roads altogether, I think. To make room for more tollways, I imagine.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

Yep, under the imperious Duncan Gray they're close to banning cycling on the roads altogether, I think. To make room for more tollways, I imagine.

Duncan Gay actually seems to think the answer to congestion n traffic issues is more single occupant car trips...

The ID one seems interesting, considering any driver pulled over who doesn't carry their driving licence has 24hrs to front up to the copshop with it...

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

Early April Fools surely?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

Early April Fools surely?

If only! There was also a 1 metre minimum passing space brought in but there's been no mention of that for some reason

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

new laws for cyclists in NSW (Aussie)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11594102

In a week, riders in Sydney and the rest of New South Wales state will be subject to a package of new laws aimed at cutting deaths and the more than 1000 serious injuries a year among cyclists.

The penalty for cycling without a helmet more than quadruples to A$319 ($NZ344), stiffer than many speeding fines for drivers, and riders jumping a red light will get a A$425 (NZ$458) fine. Adult riders will have to carry identification, or face a A$106 (NZ$114) penalty from March 2017.

Yep, under the imperious Duncan Gray they're close to banning cycling on the roads altogether, I think. To make room for more tollways, I imagine.

Duncan Gay actually seems to think the answer to congestion n traffic issues is more single occupant car trips...

The ID one seems interesting, considering any driver pulled over who doesn't carry their driving licence has 24hrs to front up to the copshop with it...

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/strict-new-cycling-laws-australia

"....Chris Rissel, a professor at the University of Sydney’s school of public health, told Bloomberg, “There are many things that could be done to make cycling safer and to encourage more people to ride. These things are not it.”"

Which is exactly the point. Duncan Gray has no desire, nor intention to make cycling safer, nor to encourage cycling in any form. He just wants it gone.

 

[movingtarget]

Research from the University of Adelaide has found that motorists were responsible for 79% of road accidents with cyclists.