Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 126km

[ppanther92]

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Jumbo Visma is very disappointed. Grischa niermann tells NOS Kruijswijk and De Plus held back on Iseran because there was another climb coming.

Makes complete sense.

FFS this was just such a great stage. ***.

 

[Midnightfright]

Not having Bernal in Yellow would make tomorrow's stage more exciting I reckon but anulling today's stage altogether would be a total farce

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Re:

Jumbo Visma is very disappointed. Grischa niermann tells NOS Kruijswijk and De Plus held back on Iseran because there was another climb coming.

If that's the case Jumbo can suck it. De Plus and Kruiswijk lost seconds by sitting up at the top of the climb when the race was still on, I don't know what they were doing.

 

[thehog]

Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

 

[Frihed89]

No results have been posted on the TDF 2019 website! I can only imagine the confusion that reigns amongst the tour officials. Law suits?

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Why not take times from the descent? Too difficult to calculate?

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He caught a group, but I am not sure if it was the Thomas group. I think that I saw Poels there who had gone past the Alaphilippe on the climb, but never made it to the Thomas group if I remember correctly.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

By caught do you mean was slowly taking seconds back on the descent?

 

[Cinemaniak]

Re: Re:

Jumbo Visma is very disappointed. Grischa niermann tells NOS Kruijswijk and De Plus held back on Iseran because there was another climb coming.

If that's the case Jumbo can suck it. De Plus and Kruiswijk lost seconds by sitting up at the top of the climb when the race was still on, I don't know what they were doing.

Preparing for another climb? Come on, you must be more intelligent than this.. When they would've gone full gas, the difference would be 30 seconds or less.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

He was just behind when they made the announcement. True there was some slowing before everyone knew what was going on. Regardless he would have made time on most on the decent.

 

[Valanga]

Re:

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/part-ii---road-races.pdf?sfvrsn=448068eb_30

They can choose ;-)

 

[canarydan23]

Re: Re:

Complicated outcome, but maybe they should half the time gaps.

In Formula 1 if a race doesn't reach it's conclusion but has completed a significant percentage of it, teams are awarded half of the points on offer.

So half everyone's total time over the l'Iseran?

It'll never happen, but seems a sensible compromise.

Cycling isnt F1, thats seems like a horrible idea tbh.

Isn't it? Oh, that's where I've been going wrong.

Whats up with it? Bernal gains 22 seconds instead of 45 or whatever it's going to be. He doesn't get the complete gains he had because the stage wasn't completed.

We've no idea how Thomas, Kruiswijk and Buchmann were planning to race. They may have let Bernal get the gap he had. GC contenders race a whole stage, not bits of it. At least they should.

That means Alaf stays in yellow which would smell of incredible bias

Just cant make such a rule up. Iseran is the place where you take the time

If you can arbitrarily nominate a single point as a revised finish line on a 126.5km race then you can do what you want. Especially as it seems they have selected somewhere without an electronic timing device apparently.

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

He was just behind when they made the announcement. True there was some slowing before everyone knew what was going on. Regardless he would have made time on most on the decent.

And would have likely lost more time on the final climb.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

I would love to hear Andy Hampsten's take on the matter. I am all for rider safety. but the conditions didn't seem to come close what rider's faced in the past. Granted, I am looking at a tv screen from my couch, so my perception could be way off.

That's the crazy part. At the point they when the message of neutralisation came, it was fine.
Later the road was literally covered in mud.

Sincere apologies for suggesting the decision to stop the race was wrong. For what it's worth, I was watching the race without commentary. I do not wish harm on any rider. From my perspective --i.e. visual perspective without audio equivalent-- it seemed everything was under control. Obviously I was wrong.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

He was just behind when they made the announcement. True there was some slowing before everyone knew what was going on. Regardless he would have made time on most on the decent.

No he wasn't. He was 55 seconds behind. You're confusing the Porte/Poels group with the Thomas group.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

He caught up to them after they slowed upon being notified of race being neutralized?

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Not having Bernal in Yellow would make tomorrow's stage more exciting I reckon but anulling today's stage altogether would be a total farce

It's a farce whatever they do now though. It simply had to be communicated before the Iseran that there was a possibility that it could be the stage finish.

Now we've just got no idea who was strongest, who was holding back, who struggles with altitude but would have gone much better on the last climb (or vice versa), who messed up their eating, who would have worked together or taken more risks on the descent to close gaps, how much the motos would have paced Alaphilippe on the flatter section...?

So many unknowns mean that literally everyone can legitimately claim to have been cheated by the decision.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

He did not catch the Thomas group on the descent.

He was just behind when they made the announcement. True there was some slowing before everyone knew what was going on. Regardless he would have made time on most on the decent.

Last time gaps had him about 45” behind. The riders in front were obviously told first about the cancellation so sat up.

 

[Bonimenier]

Let's hope somehow Bernal, Alaphillipe and one of Thomas/Kruiswijk/Buchmann end up within a few seconds between them in the GC after tomorrow's race. That'll give some good discussions afterwards.

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/part-ii---road-races.pdf?sfvrsn=448068eb_30

They can choose ;-)

Thank you.

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/part-ii---road-races.pdf?sfvrsn=448068eb_30

They can choose ;-)

Thank you!

Finally some actual quality information here.

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

Allaphillipe is very fortunate with this calll.....he would have lost many minutes on the next climb.

Would have been the likely outcome. That said he reeled in already 15s to the group. If he managed to rejoin them maybe he would have clinged on to them on the last easier climb.

no chance.

 

[jaylew]

I assume most of the field wasn't even at the top of the climb yet. Did they just tell all those guys to race to the top for their time?