Lemond Interview from 1998

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May 23, 2010
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Polish said:
"best shape" - Myth.
Greg's results speak for themselves. Not in the "best shape" in 91 lol.
Greg's palamares:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lemond

"victimized" - Myth.
In the OP article Greg states " Here in America you can train at altitude any time you want and get the same benefit from altitude as from EPO."
Hardly the words of someone who felt victimized.
Clean riders could and did keep up - see Andy Hampsten

"trained harder" - Myth
Lance trained much harder than Greg. Lance is the training standard.
Besides, greg did not need to train. He could "get off the couch" and be ready to race. That actually is NOT a myth lol.

"overtrained" - omg Myth
It was a medical issues related to the gunshot wound.
Lance dope trained...It would stand to reason that he (might) have trained harder...The standard????? Yeah probably...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Polish said:
Lance trained much harder than Greg. Lance is the training standard.
I assume you're right, since no one ever trained hard before or after Lance. The entire pro peloton is just a bunch of weekend warriors... I bet they're selfabsorbed masters racers, too...
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
I assume you're right, since no one ever trained hard before or after Lance. The entire pro peloton is just a bunch of weekend warriors... I bet they're selfabsorbed masters racers, too...
I love that cartoon sketch of all Lance's rivals gorging themselves in chicken and not being able to fit into their jerseys being so fat - because one would think he was the only guy who trained and watched his weight - not Greg, not Kelly, Roche - anyone.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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"..what we really need are guys like Lance Armstrong who are capable of doing well in Europe to proper television coverage on events."

Funny to read that now
 
Polish said:
"best shape" - Myth.
Greg's results speak for themselves. Not in the "best shape" in 91 lol.
Greg's palamares:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lemond

"victimized" - Myth.
In the OP article Greg states " Here in America you can train at altitude any time you want and get the same benefit from altitude as from EPO."
Hardly the words of someone who felt victimized.
Clean riders could and did keep up - see Andy Hampsten

"trained harder" - Myth
Lance trained much harder than Greg. Lance is the training standard.
Besides, greg did not need to train. He could "get off the couch" and be ready to race. That actually is NOT a myth lol.

"overtrained" - omg Myth
It was a medical issues related to the gunshot wound.
Link???????????
 
Sep 30, 2010
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Paul Kimmage wrote in his book that "you rode yourself into the ground trying to keep up with the doped riders" or words to that effect,and that was before EPO.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Digger said:
Link???????????
These guys said so
http://www.versus.com/

Wow, Polish is really stepping up the silliness. Wonder what he is scared of?

It is possible to believe both possibilities, that Greg's health deteriorated resulting in him becoming less competitive. This was amplified with the arrival of EPO
 
Oct 22, 2009
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Polish, your argument involves an error of logic known as petitio principii.

It is a given that LeMond had poor results in 1991. The question we are debating is whether those poor results are attributable to (1) him being in bad shape or (2) the competitive effects of EPO.

Your argument is that he must have been in bad shape, because he had poor results.

Do you see the problem?

And RR, I recognize that it could be, and most likely is, a mixture of (1) and (2). Just trying to get my pedantic point across here.

Also, the fact that LeMond didn't attribute it to EPO in 1998 means nothing. Many people didn't appreciate the impact of EPO at that point in time. There's nothing inconsistent about him saying what he said in 1998 and later, with the benefit of hindsight, attributing the competitive disparities to EPO.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Speedzero said:
Polish, your argument involves an error of logic known as petitio principii.

It is a given that LeMond had poor results in 1991. The question we are debating is whether those poor results are attributable to (1) him being in bad shape or (2) the competitive effects of EPO.

Your argument is that he must have been in bad shape, because he had poor results.
And you would argue that LeMond was in his Greatest Tour Winning Shape in 1991 -but his poor result in the slowest TdF in years was only because others were doing EPO?

Dude, Petito was not even riding in the 1991 TdF. And even if he did, he would have been a worker bee for fellow Italian Copachi. You have to watch out for those Italians lol.

Race Radio said:
Wow, Polish is really stepping up the silliness. Wonder what he is scared of?

It is possible to believe both possibilities, that Greg's health deteriorated resulting in him becoming less competitive. This was amplified with the arrival of EPO
Yes, at least "both possibilities". And there were many additional factors affecting the outcome of that TdF edition. Many great insights on this thread alone.

"EPO Defeated Greg" - Myth
"EPO Transformed Lance" - Myth
There were many other factors involved.
Training, motivation, diet, injuries,....I can list plenty more if Barrus insists.

And what am I scared of?

At this stage of my life - bike commuter and father of a 15yr old - drunk drivers and bad drivers in general are pretty scary:(

In my little town, many many bicylists and teenagers are killed by drunk drivers every year. Heck, every month. A bicyclist was killed by car yesterday in my town. Friday nights are bad, also late Sunday afternoons during Football season. The former Chief of Police here, an avid cyclist, refuses to ride Sunday Afternoons during football season - he has first hand insight into the carnage.
 
Oct 22, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Wasn't Petitio Principii on the Ferrari list? From what I've heard, that guy was dirtier than anyone...
Heh.:rolleyes:

Polish, you still don't get it. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
Polish said:
And you would argue that LeMond was in his Greatest Tour Winning Shape in 1991 -but his poor result in the slowest TdF in years was only because others were doing EPO?

Dude, Petito was not even riding in the 1991 TdF. And even if he did, he would have been a worker bee for fellow Italian Copachi. You have to watch out for those Italians lol.



Yes, at least "both possibilities". And there were many additional factors affecting the outcome of that TdF edition. Many great insights on this thread alone.

"EPO Defeated Greg" - Myth
"EPO Transformed Lance" - Myth
There were many other factors involved.
Training, motivation, diet, injuries,....I can list plenty more if Barrus insists.

And what am I scared of?

At this stage of my life - bike commuter and father of a 15yr old - drunk drivers and bad drivers in general are pretty scary:(

In my little town, many many bicylists and teenagers are killed by drunk drivers every year. Heck, every month. A bicyclist was killed by car yesterday in my town. Friday nights are bad, also late Sunday afternoons during Football season. The former Chief of Police here, an avid cyclist, refuses to ride Sunday Afternoons during football season - he has first hand insight into the carnage.
Evidence for lance training harder
 

Barrus

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Apr 28, 2010
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Polish said:
"EPO Defeated Greg" - Myth
"EPO Transformed Lance" - Myth
There were many other factors involved.
Training, motivation, diet, injuries,....I can list plenty more if Barrus insists.
You don't get it, I don't insist on it because I am a moderator, but because I believe you cannot holkd a discussion if you do not substantiate or elaborate in any manner what you are saying
 
slcbiker said:
I don't know whether he overtrained or not. But he was clearly on his way down, and what I remember from the time was mostly speculation around lead poisoning from the shot, or some sort of weird mitochondrial thing.
I don't remember much of Greg coming out and saying doping was a problem then, which is why I have somewhat of an issue with him condemning it now.
Could it be because it has come to light over the recent past that EPO was introduced to the sport around the time of Lemond's final years in the sport?
I recall a quote from back in the day where someone, maybe Lemond, said that when he saw riders cruising by him that he used drop with little effort in mountains, some of those heavier than himself, that then he knew the sport had changed.
 
May 26, 2010
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Barrus said:
You don't get it, I don't insist on it because I am a moderator, but because I believe you cannot holkd a discussion if you do not substantiate or elaborate in any manner what you are saying
Polish is not here to debate, let alone hold a discussion, he is here to annoy, disrupt while trying to dispute the allegations and facts around Armstrongs doping.

Trying to debate, discuss, talk or basic communication in an open and honest manner with Polish and others of his ilk is like nailing jelly to a wall
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Barrus said:
You don't get it, I don't insist on it because I am a moderator, but because I believe you cannot holkd a discussion if you do not substantiate or elaborate in any manner what you are saying
Barrus, you are going to have to help me out here...

I feel I OVER substantiate and OVER elaborate.

My offer to list things out (things I have listed a few times already) was tonque in cheek. Do you REALLY need me to go over them again oh no.

Sure, many people do not agree with me. And the immature debaters will respond with the tried and true "ball polisher" or "troll" or "fanboy" gambit.

But seriously Barrus - what specific point do you feel I have not elaborated or substantiated?
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Whatever other reasons , carrying lead in his body, riding clean, not undertanding the impact Epo was having on the peloton, ageing etc...all of which have degrees of validity the one thing I dont see mentioned and not just in the case of Greg but in the case of many rider when there form dips..somtimes never to return, is the psychological factors.
With poor moral almost no amount of condition matters.
It doesnt matter what condition your bodies in.if ya aint motivated ya can do very little..just keeping up can become to much.
Poor moral can be caused by all manner of things, some public but many more private.
"There is No health without mental health" is a statement im fond of using.
By way of demonstration Steven Hawkings , would by most peoples understanding appear a mentaly very healthy individual yet he is trapped in a sick body.
As for Polish, is that Avitar "Radar" from MASH?..certainly looks like it.
He was very stupid.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
I have the Cycle Sport issue which was dedicated to LeMond on his retirement and he gave his health as the biggest reason for his decline but also said that there were a lot of unsavoury things happening in cycling at the time and he was definitely alluding to the rise of EPO, that was 1994 so its not like he didnt talk about it.
Any chance you could scan some of it please?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Polish said:
Barrus, you are going to have to help me out here...

I feel I OVER substantiate and OVER elaborate.

My offer to list things out (things I have listed a few times already) was tonque in cheek. Do you REALLY need me to go over them again oh no.

Sure, many people do not agree with me. And the immature debaters will respond with the tried and true "ball polisher" or "troll" or "fanboy" gambit.

But seriously Barrus - what specific point do you feel I have not elaborated or substantiated?
No what you have done in this thread is merely repeat your assertions. No supporting evidence at all just the word myth over and over.

The multiple DNF's amount to two 1993 & 1994. Of 8 starts in the Tour he had this record 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st & 7th followed by a DNS before the 2 DNF's. That 7th was in 1991 just as EPO was taking hold in the peleton. He also finished 9th in Paris-Roubaix having played support to Duclos Lassalle's first win.

By 1993 the make-up of the sport had changed beyond recognition. Just look at the top 10 of the Tour, Riis was 5th having "blossomed" at 29!! Strange that until he popped across to Italy he was a virtual nobody. All he had won was a stage of the Giro while on his way to a lofty 86th place more than 2 hours down on Fignon.

Had Indurain not been so crushingly imperious in his wins I could almost believe he was just a real freak of nature. But the list of doped riders he beat resoundingly for 5 years straight is too big to ignore. Pantani, Chiappucci, Zulle, Rominger, just doesn't add up for me.
 
LeMond was actually in pretty good shape in 1991. He took the yellow jersey after the time trial and held it for four days until they hit the mountains.

He finished with most of the leaders on the first day but cracked big time on Val Louron. Still hung on for seventh, but if others were on EPO then that was a pretty good performance.
 

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