Libel law discussion thread

[martinvickers]

Ireland's corporation taxes are irrelevant as Belfast is in Northern Ireland not Eire.

1. Don't use 'Éire' in English. It's wrong, and for historic reasons it's often considered offensive. The correct name for the country, in the English language, as set out in the constitution ("Bunracht na h'Éireann) and recognised at both the EU and the UN, is Ireland.

You don't say "I live in Deutscheland", nor "ich wohne in Germany". Same here.

2. It is the current policy of the NI Executive to have Ireland level corporation tax rates in Northern Ireland. Negotiations with Whitehall are ongoing, to my personal knowledge.

The reason for said policy is directly linked to 'Dublin' rates - so it's relevant, just not connected.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

1. Don't use 'Éire' in English. It's wrong, and for historic reasons it's often considered offensive. The correct name for the country, in the English language, as set out in the constitution ("Bunracht na h'Éireann) and recognised at both the EU and the UN, is Ireland.

You don't say "I live in Deutscheland", nor "ich wohne in Germany". Same here.

2. It is the current policy of the NI Executive to have Ireland level corporation tax rates in Northern Ireland. Negotiations with Whitehall are ongoing, to my personal knowledge.

The reason for said policy is directly linked to 'Dublin' rates - so it's relevant, just not connected.

OT
Mr. Vickers Do you think Veronica's work (before she died) could have been more effective..like putting people behind bars if there was no libel laws?

 

[diorgen]

please stop quoting martinvickers

Just a sky shill designed to get the thread derailed constantly.

 

[ToreBear]

please stop quoting martinvickers

Just a sky shill designed to get the thread derailed constantly.

What is it you find pressing to discuss? Has there been a sky positive that a derailed thread prevents you from posting? A confession?


As someone who thinks sky are clean, I hope you are not keeping something from me which could make me change my mind?

 

[martinvickers]

OT
Mr. Vickers Do you think Veronica's work (before she died) could have been more effective..like putting people behind bars if there was no libel laws?

I don't think the Garda were unaware of the identities Guerin had to restrict. Her murder, and her treatment before hand were vile; but I'm not convinced looser libel laws would have helped her. I wonder how much Guerin uncovered, and how much she simply chronicled. JMO.

That said, O'Reilly's book is a hatchet job. And one thing the commissioner knows is you can't libel the dead.

 

[BigClinicIsGoingToJail]

Part of a sworn affidavit from one rider in the suit against the clinic.

"Google alerts has become a living hell. Once I checked them just as my wife and 4 year old daughter walked in. My wife started to cry and then my daughter burst into tears. I reacted by crying myself, and we sat there in tears as I read the latest clinic bile with my name attached. It's always the same users saying the same things. These people are ruining our lives with these lies. Are they sociopaths? They must be stropped. I hope this court will take action."

 

[hrotha]

Part of a sworn affidavit from one rider in the suit against the clinic.

"Google alerts has become a living hell. Once I checked them just as my wife and 4 year old daughter walked in. My wife started to cry and then my daughter burst into tears. I reacted by crying myself, and we sat there in tears as I read the latest clinic bile with my name attached. It's always the same users saying the same things. These people are ruining our lives with these lies. Are they sociopaths? They must be stropped. I hope this court will take action."

Pro tip: parody/joke accounts need to be funny.

 

[ToreBear]

Pro tip: parody/joke accounts need to be funny.

I laughed, at both post, but I'm sleep deprived so it doesn't take much though.

 

[TheGame]

The first point of approach would be CN, not the courts. Posters on this forum adhere to Futures T&C's. The moderation team then ensure members adhere to the T&C's. Any suit would need to be filed against CN if the plaintiff believed their T&C's did not adequately prevent libel. Or in the case that the T&C's do adequately prevent libel, then they would file against CN for not ensuring their "unpaid" staff ensure adherence to the sites T&C's.

This has jack **** to do with any members.

 

[thehog]

Part of a sworn affidavit from one rider in the suit against the clinic.

"Google alerts has become a living hell. Once I checked them just as my wife and 4 year old daughter walked in. My wife started to cry and then my daughter burst into tears. I reacted by crying myself, and we sat there in tears as I read the latest clinic bile with my name attached. It's always the same users saying the same things. These people are ruining our lives with these lies. Are they sociopaths? They must be stropped. I hope this court will take action."

"In a counter suit. The wives and girlfriends of the Sky riders are suing the team because riders won't reveal their weight loss secrets. It's also understood the class action suit will also be mounted in LA by group of weight obsessed actresses along with a group of teenage girls from Miami.

The law suits could prove troublesome for Sky an insider has said. Their weight loss techniques which apparently doesn't come with the usual side effects of fainting are a closely guarded secret. One source close to the team said that the riders won't even eat with their wives in fear of their eating habits being made public."

 

[martinvickers]

The first point of approach would be CN, not the courts. Posters on this forum adhere to Futures T&C's. The moderation team then ensure members adhere to the T&C's. Any suit would need to be filed against CN if the plaintiff believed their T&C's did not adequately prevent libel. Or in the case that the T&C's do adequately prevent libel, then they would file against CN for not ensuring their "unpaid" staff ensure adherence to the sites T&C's.

This has jack **** to do with any members.

em...false. Again, see Sally Bercow.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Your "RESPONSE" was and is straw.
This is a forum, not a court of Law.

Damn, Mas, that's some rhyming and verse worthy of the late, great, Johnnie Cochran. Chapeau, sir.

(side note: more rhymes in the vortex, please. )

 

[horsinabout]

That kinda of nudge, nudge didn't save Sally Bercow.



The McAlpine twitters thought that too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22652083

OMG Martin.... cut it out your putting the frighteners on!


Well that's me done then, gonna stick to critiquing other posters, winding up the hog, and correcting blackcats vernacular. Hopefully that way I'll stay OUT OF TROUBLE. No guarantees.

 

[del1962]

I can confirm that sky and other members of the pro peloton are drawing up suits to file in British courts that will target many key members of the clinic. Two names that repeatedly come up in the suits are "TheHog" and "BroDeal". Richie Porte took particular offence to being likened to Ricco by TheHog. Bradley Wiggins has singled out BroDeal for claiming he dopes like Riis but is a worse rider.

More worrying for the clinic is the suits will try to make the clinic criminally liable for the behaviour of these users. The two mentioned users have over ten thousand posts whilst other users are permanently banned for trivial offences often without any reason given. Moderators like "Netserk" quote the infamous trolls in their post signature, implicitly endorcing their behaviour. Time and time again, the suits ask why these users are banned from every other forum on the Internet - ChewbaccaD is even banned from twitter - yet they are celebrated on this one forum for spouting their false and libellous beliefs.

The suits are expected to be completed and filed by early next month.

If you want to be taken seriously it would be better if you had the biggest cheat in Premier League Football as you avatar, while posting with a hypocritical moral stance on twitter with a potty mouth. Especially if you can post your anger towards the man who wrote seven deadly sins.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What state are you in, then? I know some states have attempted to exclude enforcement of E&W judgements on their soil, but that's perhaps a different thing...

It doesn't have to do with the state, it has to do with the fact that I am writing in the United States and thus no UK court has personal jurisdiction for anything I write here. If I visit a country and make a statement that violates their libel statute, I could then be charged and tried as I would be on their soil. They could also make me pay before leaving I believe; however, If I made it back to the US without paying, I would still make a case in a US court for not enforcing the judgment because it is a violation of my constitutional rights to have my freedom of speech abridged in that manner. I looked into this a long time back when dealing with the Landis suit brought by the UCI, and I am pretty sure I found some cases that gave precedent for not enforcing a judgment from another country that is based on a law that violates the fundamental rights of a US citizen. I will look to see what I can find.

Irrespective, a UK court can bring a case against me if they want, but if I made the statement or wrote it on US soil, no US court will recognize the judgment because there is no personal jurisdiction. It would only take about two pages (the header making up most of the first page) to get a case such as that seeking to enforce a judgment in a US court dismissed. I wouldn't even bother consulting another attorney before filing with the court.

EDIT: What I couldn't do is travel to the UK or any jurisdiction that would allow them service of process without the danger of being served and held. However, I would immediately contact the US Consulate wherever that is and let them deal with it because I still made the statement on US soil, and any suggestion the UK had personal jurisdiction would be complete bullsh*t that the US would never recognize.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The first point of approach would be CN, not the courts. Posters on this forum adhere to Futures T&C's. The moderation team then ensure members adhere to the T&C's. Any suit would need to be filed against CN if the plaintiff believed their T&C's did not adequately prevent libel. Or in the case that the T&C's do adequately prevent libel, then they would file against CN for not ensuring their "unpaid" staff ensure adherence to the sites T&C's.

This has jack **** to do with any members.

This is correct in relation to me. There may be countries that would enforce a judgment against a citizen of their country who made a statement on their soil about someone in the UK, but that country needs a new constitution if that is the case because they are providing sh*t protection to their citizens.

 

[ToreBear]

I would also be interested to know how I might be pursued for libel in a UK court for statements I made on the Internet. I have trouble seeing how that could happen to be frank.

The only case I'm aware of where that might have been of interest to the plaintiff was in the Trafigura case and their super injunction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafigura#Super-injunction

Uk media were apparently silenced by the gagging order put on the Guardian but the Norwegian broadcasting corporation published all material relevant to the case and the gagging order. Apart from a few legal threats I think Trafigura and it's lawyers gave up.

They probably correctly summized that they would get laughed out of a Norwegian court due to the gagging orders violation of freedom of speech.

I think the US and the UK system is similar, in that they have some common principles. But I think they are incompatible with many other countries like Norway, Sweden and Denmark for example. Or as I would put it, the more developed countries.

 

[ebandit]

laugh

interesting chat...............but i laugh..............the likes of team sky will not

give a jot what tosh a member states as fact here on the forum

because such tosh carries no weight...............no damage

it would be a different matter if such tosh appeared in a national newspaper

as 1 info there is seen as absolute fact

2 far more people would read.............so damage could be caused

Mark L

 

[ChewbaccaD]

interesting chat...............but i laugh..............the likes of team sky will not

give a jot what tosh a member states as fact here on the forum

because such tosh carries no weight...............no damage

it would be a different matter if such tosh appeared in a national newspaper

as 1 info there is seen as absolute fact

2 far more people would read.............so damage could be caused

Mark L

I couldn't care less what Sky does or doesn't do. I was merely expressing a legal point.

 

[ToreBear]

interesting chat...............but i laugh..............the likes of team sky will not

give a jot what tosh a member states as fact here on the forum

because such tosh carries no weight...............no damage

it would be a different matter if such tosh appeared in a national newspaper

as 1 info there is seen as absolute fact

2 far more people would read.............so damage could be caused

Mark L

It would depend on which nation it originated. I think silencing UK media is quite easy, but I it's not that easy in other countries. I highly doubt one can silence foreign media from a UK court.

For that one needs a powerful army, and no democratic inclination.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I would also be interested to know how I might be pursued for libel in a UK court for statements I made on the Internet. I have trouble seeing how that could happen to be frank.

The only case I'm aware of where that might have been of interest to the plaintiff was in the Trafigura case and their super injunction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafigura#Super-injunction

Uk media were apparently silenced by the gagging order put on the Guardian but the Norwegian broadcasting corporation published all material relevant to the case and the gagging order. Apart from a few legal threats I think Trafigura and it's lawyers gave up.

They probably correctly summized that they would get laughed out of a Norwegian court due to the gagging orders violation of freedom of speech.

I think the US and the UK system is similar, in that they have some common principles. But I think they are incompatible with many other countries like Norway, Sweden and Denmark for example. Or as I would put it, the more developed countries.

I would not worry.

For the most part those that shout 'libel, libel' here are merely trying to stop people saying something that they disagree with.
Unless they are the person being referred to, then they have no idea if any statement is true or libelous. It is straw.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

interesting chat...............but i laugh..............the likes of team sky will not

give a jot what tosh a member states as fact here on the forum

because such tosh carries no weight...............no damage

it would be a different matter if such tosh appeared in a national newspaper

as 1 info there is seen as absolute fact

2 far more people would read.............so damage could be caused

Mark L

Really? Someone got upset last year, remember.

'I say they're just f****** w******. I cannot be doing with people like that.
'It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.
'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a**** in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.
'And that's ultimately it. C****.'

 

[BroDeal]

Really? Someone got upset last year, remember.

'I say they're just f****** w******. I cannot be doing with people like that.
'It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.
'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a**** in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.
'And that's ultimately it. C****.'

I think I may have been slandered by Wiggins. How do I go about filing suit in the kangaroo courts over there?

 

[ToreBear]

I would not worry.

For the most part those that shout 'libel, libel' here are merely trying to stop people saying something that they disagree with.
Unless they are the person being referred to, then they have no idea if any statement is true or libelous. It is straw.

Not worried at all. I usually skip posts were someone mentions the word libel, unless I sense a good chuckle might be under way.

But now, I'm really more curious how people think such a case might be brought forward and how they might see it ending in anything but a resounding failure.

 

[ToreBear]

I think I may have been libeled by Wiggins. How do I go about filing suit in the kangaroo courts over there?

Call defame-9800, press number:
1 for libel
2 for injunction
3 for super injuction and the gold package

For ambulance chasers, you should ask the Wookie, thats more common in his country.