Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[Race Radio]

Leopard says otherwise. Not the final word on it, but they're talking about UCI rules. The claim has not been refuted by the UCI since this story ran. I assume the UCI would have chimed-in by now if they were stretching it.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sch...-to-uci-about-non-payment-team-owner-confirms

How broken must the team communication be if they are getting sued by riders because of a bank account issue?

It does not pass the smell test. I can't image it would go so far that the riders are forced to go to the UCI. It makes no sense

 

[BillytheKid]

How broken must the team communication be if they are getting sued by riders because of a bank account issue?

It does not pass the smell test. I can't image it would go so far that the riders are forced to go to the UCI. It makes no sense

Imagine it. It's a labor dispute of some kind which most likely is triping on some UCI rule. The crack reporting here offers no specifics on said UCI rules. Nor does it offer a UCI comment. Did they even try? Usually you would make the effort to contact the UCI for a statement. This is called verifying the statement. I can't imagine good reporting without it.

If you don't receive a response. Then you would write: "the UCI did not comment or the situation."

I also can't imagine BSing the press on UCI rules. It's like calling the sky green or something.

It would fall apart. Clearly there are some problems. Sports with player's unions usually go on strike. Union sports keep it away from the focus on one team even though it may be so. There are sometimes many issues and not always about the amount paid. The fact that this site half-reports in this story and people like you troll about without the facts is hard to imagine.

Such disputes, you know, are not uncommon in sport. This one has blown wide open and the lawsuits are uncommon, but it is not that hard to imagine at all. The question is what will you do when the team is no more? That's hard to imagine.

Sorry to get amp up about it, and take some swipes, but I feel "it's hard to imagine" is lame.

Jens attacked on account of it? http://bcove.me/jmo6hlfg

 

[BillytheKid]

"amped"

Some Paris party pics. Look at such long faces and the disgruntled riders, and look, no fans at all.

http://www.radioshacknissantrek.com/gallery/more-paris

Images sometimes wipeout the BS of a word-herder and really smack at the truth. The team did not fall apart. They won the team classification agaisnt a raging team Sky. Yes, some problems, but in the end, best wishes to all.

 

[webvan]

Yeah great team spirit...Gallopin was saying yesterday that it was harder to hold on to the team classification than to a podium spot...says it all on the brains at work!

 

[BillytheKid]

Yeah great team spirit...Gallopin was saying yesterday that it was harder to hold on to the team classification than to a podium spot...says it all in the brains at work!

Sarcasim? Zubeldia is, all in all, a climber and realistically not on the podium here. Waiting for him on the final mountain day would have lost the team GC. That is a tough choice. I wonder if the team made the decision.

 

[Christian]

"amped"

Some Paris party pics. Look at such long faces and the disgruntled riders, and look, no fans at all.

http://www.radioshacknissantrek.com/gallery/more-paris

Images sometimes wipeout the BS of a word-herder and really smack at the truth. The team did not fall apart. They won the team classification agaisnt a raging team Sky. Yes, some problems, but in the end, best wishes to all.

Damn is that Popovych's wife? She is HOT

 

[cineteq]

Sarcasim? Zubeldia is, all in all, a climber and realistically not on the podium here. Waiting for him on the final mountain day would have lost the team GC. That is a tough choice. I wonder if the team made the decision.

It's the team spirit that's being questioned. Klöden could have easily stopped for few seconds by Zubeldia, but his body language and attitude showed he didn't care about his teammate.

Sky could have easily won this team podium without much effort than they did just by having Porte and/or Rogers finishing a bit higher. I guess the yellow helmets were too much of an embarrassment.

 

[BillytheKid]

It's the team spirit that's being questioned. Klöden could have easily stopped for few seconds by Zubeldia, but his body language and attitude showed he didn't care about his teammate.

Sky could have easily won this team podium without much effort than they did just by having Porte and/or Rogers finishing a bit higher. I guess the yellow helmets were too much of an embarrassment.

Not. Klöden was back there becasue he had flatted at beginning of the climb, he was "assigned" to be a front man for the GC. He was looking up the road and very focus on the time he had lost. It was a fast wheel change and Dirk gave hime the best push I've ever seen. Zubeldia was blown. He saw Klöden, but Andreas may have not really seen him. I think as early as stage 8, they were looking at a team podium. 5th GC was good, but with the long ITT to close it, not really the best option for a win.

"That was team rules" Horner at the source: http://link.brightcove.com/services..._bYDedNqkpR7gMGQyInJKsvED&bctid=1744320801001

 

[Race Radio]

Imagine it. It's a labor dispute of some kind which most likely is triping on some UCI rule. The crack reporting here offers no specifics on said UCI rules. Nor does it offer a UCI comment. Did they even try? Usually you would make the effort to contact the UCI for a statement. This is called verifying the statement. I can't imagine good reporting without it.

If you don't receive a response. Then you would write: "the UCI did not comment or the situation."

I also can't imagine BSing the press on UCI rules. It's like calling the sky green or something.

It would fall apart. Clearly there are some problems. Sports with player's unions usually go on strike. Union sports keep it away from the focus on one team even though it may be so. There are sometimes many issues and not always about the amount paid. The fact that this site half-reports in this story and people like you troll about without the facts is hard to imagine.

Such disputes, you know, are not uncommon in sport. This one has blown wide open and the lawsuits are uncommon, but it is not that hard to imagine at all. The question is what will you do when the team is no more? That's hard to imagine.

Sorry to get amp up about it, and take some swipes, but I feel "it's hard to imagine" is lame.

Jens attacked on account of it? http://bcove.me/jmo6hlfg

Riders filing complaints to the UCI against their team is very unusual. The UCI sending in auditors is very unusual. Not paying vendors is unusual. Losing $7 million in 6 months is unusal

Yes, these things have happened in the past, usually in a team about to collapse

I doubt Chris is going to say much in public but he is the most dependable guy on the team and they treat him like a Neo-Pro

 

[BillytheKid]

Riders filing complaints to the UCI against their team is very unusual. The UCI sending in auditors is very unusual. Not paying vendors is unusual. Losing $7 million in 6 months is unusal

Yes, these things have happened in the past, usually in a team about to collapse

I doubt Chris is going to say much in public but he is the most dependable guy on the team and they treat him like a Neo-Pro

I am more interested in the riders and races than Becca's problems. We still don't know the whole of it. Hopefully the title sponsors will be allowed to do the right thing in aiding the situation, and all payments will be honored. I am sure they want kill the bad press as soon as possible.

 

[Christian]

Losing $7 million in 6 months is unusal

This is - at least partially - false. Leopard S.A. lost €7 million in the first business year, which was in reality 18 months since the company was started around May 2010. The number that you are refering to is from the first report which was done in december 2011. Also the debts of others towards Leopard S.A. are €3.6 million.

According to the press agent of Leopard S.A. the company calculated with this loss from the beginning and had foreseen it in their business plan which they (I believe) submitted to the UCI. The press agent also said that finding a sponsor was part of the business plan for the second year.

That being said I agree that losing such a large amount of money does not bode of financial stability. However, while I am unaware of the financial details of other teams, I imagine most of them are money-losing-machines

 

[Morbius]

Teams should not be "money losing machines" as the income from sponsorship, prize money, merchandising etc should balance expense on salaries, equipment, transport, hotels etc. It is possible that this is not the case in the first year, in which case the owner(s) will have to put up cash, but in the long run this is not sustainable. See Team Highroad for an example of what happens next.

 

[ElChingon]

Teams should not be "money losing machines" as the income from sponsorship, prize money, merchandising etc should balance expense on salaries, equipment, transport, hotels etc. It is possible that this is not the case in the first year, in which case the owner(s) will have to put up cash, but in the long run this is not sustainable. See Team Highroad for an example of what happens next.

Cycling teams are money losing machines, the sponsors toss it all out there in hopes of gaining business, there is no guarantee. How the sponsors measure the worth is headlines, brand name awareness, sales after the fact but there is no direct correlation between the cycling aspect because most companies are also marketing in other ways (as they should) so unless they give out vouchers/coupons at cycling events specifically labeled as such or sell their wares at the cycling events there is no correlation. Sure you can start a survey, and anyone who's ever done one knows it is pretty meaningless, a cycling fan will say they bought it because of cycling (if they know it benefits them) but most don't put two and two together.

I could see a bike or component manufacture correlate it. though, but the above is for the general non-cycling specific sponsor which almost all are, the big money that is.

 

[El Oso]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ctory-was-not-a-reward-for-the-best-team.aspx

 

[Christian]

I could see a bike or component manufacture correlate it.

Even for them there is often no real profit. Gerard Vroomen said the worst selling Cervélo model was the one Carlos Sastre used to win the Tour

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ctory-was-not-a-reward-for-the-best-team.aspx

Radioshack - not the best team at TdF
Peter Sagan - not the best sprinter at TdF
Thomas Voeckler - not the best climber at TdF
Wigans - not the best rider at TdF

 

[Clemson Cycling]

Radioshack - not the best team at TdF
Peter Sagan - not the best sprinter at TdF
Thomas Voeckler - not the best climber at TdF
Wigans - not the best rider at TdF

Tejay was the best youngster though

 

[Angliru]

Tejay was the best youngster though

Tejay was great and was well deserving of the white jersey but I was even more impressed with Pinot. The Tour was his first grand tour, he finished in the top 10, with a stage win and equally as impressive was the fact that on the final mountainous stage he outclimbed all but Wiggins and Froome only losing a few seconds to them in the end. Tejay is obviously more well-rounded with his stellar tt performance but Pinot upside is scarey to think about if he can improve his tt.

 

[BillytheKid]

Even for them there is often no real profit. Gerard Vroomen said the worst selling Cervélo model was the one Carlos Sastre used to win the Tour



Radioshack - not the best team at TdF
Peter Sagan - not the best sprinter at TdF
Thomas Voeckler - not the best climber at TdF
Wigans - not the best rider at TdF

You think too much of yourself. It is really unfortunate that you make an attempt here to rob these men of what they have accomplished. The results speak for themselves. Come down off you high horse.

 

[pugdog]

You think too much of yourself. It is really unfortunate that you make an attempt here to rob these men of what they have accomplished. The results speak for themselves. Come down off you high horse.

That's not Christian being pompous beyond belief. It's Velonation.

 

[El Oso]

You think too much of yourself. It is really unfortunate that you make an attempt here to rob these men of what they have accomplished. The results speak for themselves. Come down off you high horse.

Sorry, but Christian's right. Yes, the respective winners won "the game" by scoring the most points and objectively winning the competition, but subjectively, anybody actually watching the Tour would not agree with the results.

Team Competition - Watching the Tour can you honestly say that RSNT was better than Sky? If there was a TTT Sky would have smoked them. Sky was chasing the GC and did a brilliant job of working as a team to win the GC. I'm confident in saying that if Porte and Rogers were not sacrificing themselves for Wiggins and Froome they would have finished higher than Kloden, Horner or Monfort. RSNT did not ride as a team, they rode as individuals who happen to be wearing the same jersey, with the end result being the third place rider on Sky who sacrificed himself for the team came in below the third individual riding for himself on RSNT.

Green Jersey - Here I actually agree with Sagan winning. I think a legit argument could be made on his case, especially given the huge margin. It could have been different if Cav was on HTC, but I still think Sagan wins due to his ability to sprint after a climb and consistency in flat sprints.

Polka Dot - Be honest, can you say with a straight face that Tommy V is the best climber?? If your answer is anything other than a resounding "No" then you're lying. Same for Kessiakoff as the second best climber. This has been a long standing issue that the Tour has tried to resolve, but it's nearly impossible to get. The best climbers don't care about anything other than the final climb.

Yellow Jersey - I think Froome would have put in more than 3:30 to Wiggins if he attacked in the mountains, but unfortunately we will never know.

It's not taking away from their accomplishments, it's just honest.

 

[Christian]

(deleted)

I don't want to belittle these performances at all, I think the classifications were all well deserved! All I'm trying to say is that not always the "best" or "strongest" rider/team ends up winning, for a variety of reasons. But I hardly think Thomas Voeckler would be offended if you told him he wasn't the best climber in the Tour. Same with Peter Sagan and same with RadioShack. Definitely agree that Van Gerderen was the strongest youngster though!

 

[Marcuccio]

Sorry, but Christian's right. Yes, the respective winners won "the game" by scoring the most points and objectively winning the competition, but subjectively, anybody actually watching the Tour would not agree with the results.

Team Competition - Watching the Tour can you honestly say that RSNT was better than Sky? If there was a TTT Sky would have smoked them. Sky was chasing the GC and did a brilliant job of working as a team to win the GC. I'm confident in saying that if Porte and Rogers were not sacrificing themselves for Wiggins and Froome they would have finished higher than Kloden, Horner or Monfort. RSNT did not ride as a team, they rode as individuals who happen to be wearing the same jersey, with the end result being the third place rider on Sky who sacrificed himself for the team came in below the third individual riding for himself on RSNT.

Agree with all you've said, specially this point above.
RSNT have never once seemed united as a team, ever.
In fact their team presentation pre tour was the closest I've seen them as a unit!

 

[BillytheKid]

I don't want to belittle these performances at all, I think the classifications were all well deserved! All I'm trying to say is that not always the "best" or "strongest" rider/team ends up winning, for a variety of reasons. But I hardly think Thomas Voeckler would be offended if you told him he wasn't the best climber in the Tour. Same with Peter Sagan and same with RadioShack. Definitely agree that Van Gerderen was the strongest youngster though!

And like-wise, to win the yellow a strong team, like Sky, may have to give up other the prizes, but the rules of the game are the rules of the game.

It is just so.

 

[BillytheKid]

Hey, what a pro Fuglsang is. He keeps trashing his main sponsors when the pay problems are down the food chain. I would think twice about signing up someone who throws such fits. I think he's doing more harm than good.

An American sponsored team deserves at least one American rider on the team. It was unfortunate for him, but he's young and should just quit the tantrums.

What good does it do?

We all know how deep the field was at the Tour of Austira. Still a win is a win. I think he would have been about as good as Monfort. Still, someone will dump some cash on him. I don't think it is an era where you can't shop the best teams.

He is only damaging himself.

 

[hrotha]

I'm sorry, what has Fuglsang said that's so bad? I'd like to see how you handle being unpaid and mobbed at your work place.