Lightweight Review 10/10 ???

[gregkeble]

What a poor review. How can they score 10 out of 10? I have a set and they certainly are amazingly stiff and lights but they have 2 big flaws:
(1) Hopeless in crosswinds. HED, Zipp and others have developed wheels that are both aerodynamic and handle in crosswinds. The basic simple V section of the wheels really needs to be updated.
(2) After an hour or 2 of riding the rims are no longer spotless and no matter what pads you have braking gets very sketchy into low speed corners. These wheels may gain you 30seconds on the way up an Alpine climb but they will lose you a few minutes on the decent due to hopeless control into the hairpins. After every ride you need to thoroughly clean the braking surface to get back some half reasonable braking control.

Great wheels for sprinters when there is no much crosswind.

 

[BroDeal]

Oh, come on. How can you doubt a review that contains a sober and honest assessment of the wheels' merits like this?

"Simply put, they're incredibly fast wheels, being ridiculously quick to accelerate and giving you the feeling of a constant tailwind on the climbs"

You have to wonder how much the going rate is to have idiocy like this printed in the guise of a review.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Oh, come on. How can you doubt a review that contains a sober and honest assessment of the wheels merits like this:

"Simply put, they're incredibly fast wheels, being ridiculously quick to accelerate and giving you the feeling of a constant tailwind on the climbs"

You have to wonder how much the going rate is to have idiocy like this printed in the guise of a review.

Copy to Sheltowee

 

[karlboss]

not yet heard of someone complaining about the crosswind effect on a rim less than 50mm. Maybe a really small rider. Aero wise, data suggests these aren't the best wheel out there.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

not yet heard of someone complaining about the crosswind effect on a rim less than 50mm. Maybe a really small rider. Aero wise, data suggests these aren't the best wheel out there.

Only 2 things you can measure in a shop(assuming there are shops out there that actually carry these things)-weight and price. Light? Expensive? Gotta be good!

 

[Speedneedle]

They are good. Trust me. I have had two sets. Compared to my Zipp 404, they are so much more responsive and inspiring to ride. Yes, they are expensive but IMO, worth it. They can also be repaired in a way no other carbon wheels can. I have a friend with a set from 2001 which have new braking flanges done last year. Try that with a set of Bora's...

 

[rgmerk]

They are good. Trust me. I have had two sets. Compared to my Zipp 404, they are so much more responsive and inspiring to ride. Yes, they are expensive but IMO, worth it.

Did you pay for them with your own money?

I'm unconvinced that a rider's senses are entirely trustworthy on picking the faster wheel in a race situation. A lighter wheel might give a better initial acceleration (which you'll easily notice), but a heavier but more aero wheel might more than make it up by allowing you to travel a little faster at the same wattage (which you won't notice, unless you have a very accurate power meter, speedometer, and conduct repeated tests in still conditions).

 

[karlboss]

Only 2 things you can measure in a shop(assuming there are shops out there that actually carry these things)-weight and price. Light? Expensive? Gotta be good!

The aero data is out there, from a study which has been posted in this forum before, and also two tests from tour magazin, a german cycle mag, I'm sure I have them some where. If you want, ask.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The aero data is out there, from a study which has been posted in this forum before, and also two tests from tour magazin, a german cycle mag, I'm sure I have them some where. If you want, ask.

Yep, take a bike part, put it in a wind tunnel, by itself and measure it. Then put a person on bike with that bike part, with all the variables and then try to draw some conclusion, "6 seconds faster per mile over a 40 mile course', type thing.....righto-"all things being equal' comes to mind, which of course, they never are.

 

[James Huang]

Hi all,

First off, let me preface this response by saying that this wasn't my review but rather that of a colleague of mine, Mat Brett, who is located in the UK. With that being said, I tested the tubular version of these two years ago and my experiences really weren't much different at all, and on what I presume to be quite different riding conditions (front range Colorado with endless stretches of long and twisting downhills and oftentimes lots of crosswinds).

I can fully understand the skepticism that can go along with Mat's enthusiastic write-up but also remember that these wheels aren't just a little bit lighter than other carbon clinchers of similar dimensions: they're more than a full POUND lighter, and it's all rotating weight. Moreover, they're not just slightly stiffer in torsion than most other superlight wheels out there; I've yet to speak to anyone who's sampled these themselves that didn't notice the dramatic difference in responsiveness right away. Doubt if you want but the only people who can legitimately argue this fact are those that have ridden them.

In terms of aerodynamics, no, the V-shaped cross-section isn't as good in crosswinds as a more rounded one either in terms of drag or handling stability. But unless I'm heading up US-36 with an especially brutal wind coming out of the foothills to the side, it was still manageable most of the time unless it was particularly gusty.

Braking quality: the included made-by-SwissStop pads are noticeably spongier and a little grabbier than the Yellow King compound that I usually prefer but even so, braking on the Lightweights wasn't appreciably better or worse than other carbon wheels I've tested over the years, which is to say that it's still not as good as aluminum.

The 'having to clean the rims every hour or two of riding' comment by gregkable makes me wonder, though. The only time I've ever experienced a situation like that on a carbon rim was when there was tubular glue residue on the sidewalls. Under braking, those spots start to gum up and get very grabby whether at low speed or high and no amount of cleaning with acetone/isopropanol/brake cleaner/solvent-of-your-choice will get rid of it completely.

Scraping the area with a straight razor does the job very nicely, though, and restores the braking quality to as-expected levels. Had this exact issue come up with the Edge Composites 1.68 tubulars I tested a few months ago. Those wheels are almost universally lauded for their consistent braking but if someone isn't very careful with the glue job and leaves even the tiniest bit of residue on the sidewall, I can definitely see how someone might disagree.

 

[Speedneedle]

Did you pay for them with your own money?

I'm unconvinced that a rider's senses are entirely trustworthy on picking the faster wheel in a race situation. A lighter wheel might give a better initial acceleration (which you'll easily notice), but a heavier but more aero wheel might more than make it up by allowing you to travel a little faster at the same wattage (which you won't notice, unless you have a very accurate power meter, speedometer, and conduct repeated tests in still conditions).

Yes, I did. And it was two sets at different times. The one I have now is a set of Standards Gen.3. And as James mentions, their torsional stiffness is unparalleled.

The thing I mean is, that these wheels are just so inspiring to race. I race a bit differently with these, as they make me want to jump and attack more. Maybe my Zipps are faster in crosswind, but I'm not doing a 180 IM leg. I'm racing for fun. I'm never gonna be pro, so I just want to get the most fun out of it.

I will sell my Zipp soon and try a set of Edge 1.65s. These seem interesting. Time will tell.

 

[karlboss]

Yep, take a bike part, put it in a wind tunnel, by itself and measure it. Then put a person on bike with that bike part, with all the variables and then try to draw some conclusion, "6 seconds faster per mile over a 40 mile course', type thing.....righto-"all things being equal' comes to mind, which of course, they never are.

Actually in this case I was going to note that they really aren't that good, about the same as shimano dura ace, shallow, not the 50mm. These tests can be done well or poorly. Speedplay's pedals is an example of a poor test.