mail order frustrations

[Master50]

Last year I read reviews on the new 29er Red Passion wheels from Fulcrum. super light and my experience with Campy wheels makes me think these will be winners. that and I did not want Bontragers.
they finally came available early this year and I snapped up a pair from Wiggle.
The fun starts 5 days later when they arrive. the box contained 2 wheels with wheel bags and QR skewers etc.

Missing are the valve stems and the adaptors for the front wheel to use a thru axel. I knew I had to find the rear wheel adaptors elsewhere as they come separate and Wiggle did not carry them.

I inform wiggle that these parts are missing and they say they are not lost so they mustn't have come with the missing parts except the information on Fulcrums web site says they do. Wiggle exchanges a few emails leaving me the idea they are following up on the missing parts but nothing happens so I write Fulcrum who politely say Wiggle must make the claim for the missing parts. Wiggle says they can't order parts for me. and I again explain I am looking for the parts that I paid for that are supposed to come with the wheels. Limbo.

In the mean time I did order the parts I need from Niagara cycle and they arrive some $66.00 later but I get to use the wheels. the rear wheel adaptor is not listed by the part numbers on the exposed view so they were very hard to correctly identify. they arrived from Germany yesterday. Great I have a set of MTB wheels that are light and beautiful but I also paid an extra $66 for parts that were supposed to be included and my attempts to get wiggle to claim for the missing parts to Fulcrum are being frustrated by their customer service people that cannot understand what to do when they sell something that is missing parts? I completely blame Fulcrum for not including the correct parts but Wiggle is hardly backing up me as the person who did not get what he paid for.

As for the rear wheel adaptors. they are fine and about 1/3 the price of the same parts in 2014 but the included parts are missing. oddly the fulcrum web site says the wheels do not come with bags but they did. I don't need wheel bags.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Last year I read reviews on the new 29er Red Passion wheels from Fulcrum. super light and my experience with Campy wheels makes me think these will be winners. that and I did not want Bontragers.
they finally came available early this year and I snapped up a pair from Wiggle.
The fun starts 5 days later when they arrive. the box contained 2 wheels with wheel bags and QR skewers etc.

Missing are the valve stems and the adaptors for the front wheel to use a thru axel. I knew I had to find the rear wheel adaptors elsewhere as they come separate and Wiggle did not carry them.

I inform wiggle that these parts are missing and they say they are not lost so they mustn't have come with the missing parts except the information on Fulcrums web site says they do. Wiggle exchanges a few emails leaving me the idea they are following up on the missing parts but nothing happens so I write Fulcrum who politely say Wiggle must make the claim for the missing parts. Wiggle says they can't order parts for me. and I again explain I am looking for the parts that I paid for that are supposed to come with the wheels. Limbo.

In the mean time I did order the parts I need from Niagara cycle and they arrive some $66.00 later but I get to use the wheels. the rear wheel adaptor is not listed by the part numbers on the exposed view so they were very hard to correctly identify. they arrived from Germany yesterday. Great I have a set of MTB wheels that are light and beautiful but I also paid an extra $66 for parts that were supposed to be included and my attempts to get wiggle to claim for the missing parts to Fulcrum are being frustrated by their customer service people that cannot understand what to do when they sell something that is missing parts? I completely blame Fulcrum for not including the correct parts but Wiggle is hardly backing up me as the person who did not get what he paid for.

As for the rear wheel adaptors. they are fine and about 1/3 the price of the same parts in 2014 but the included parts are missing. oddly the fulcrum web site says the wheels do not come with bags but they did. I don't need wheel bags.

You DO?? You look for a bargain basement, gray market deal, they come but are undoubtedly OEM resale, from some frame maker somewhere. They have no warranty(maybe a 'self warranty from wiggle but good luck with that), and they are missing some 'stuff' that isn't included well, because that frame that these were supposed to go on, probably don't have a thru axle..so non included when they get to build the bike.

No such thing as a free lunch. If you want to get better customer service, look at other places rather than these guys, and others, in the UK.

 

[Master50]

You DO?? You look for a bargain basement, gray market deal, they come but are undoubtedly OEM resale, from some frame maker somewhere. They have no warranty(maybe a 'self warranty from wiggle but good luck with that), and they are missing some 'stuff' that isn't included well, because that frame that these were supposed to go on, probably don't have a thru axle..so non included when they get to build the bike.

No such thing as a free lunch. If you want to get better customer service, look at other places rather than these guys, and others, in the UK.[/quote]

Thanks for the support. NOT!
Grey Market? what is that exactly? Do you mean when I chose to spend less for the same product but get it outside of my retail network at home in inflated Canadian Prices? The world is changing BK.
I was waiting until later in the week to post the resolution as nothing is done until the paperwork is finished.
The wheels were destined for the retail market which is where I got them. They were packaged for a consumer aftermaket sale and not OEM. To my knowledge the Canadian Distributor has none in stock and several pairs back ordered with no predicted arrival date. They are not OEM on anyone's bike that I have discovered. they are warranted by Fulcrum through the Canadian network Albeit grudgingly because yes people want to protect their market.
Wiggle has looked after this or is looking after this now. I prefer not to say what specifically they did for me but they made it right and I am not out of pocket for more than what I paid for plus I keep the wheelbags.

In the end Wiggle was responsive and sympathetic. they eventually made it right. If anything Fulcrum has some marketing and packaging issues at the factory.

I get you are from the USA where you pay more for European stuff just because they know they can get you to pay it. At one time Campagnolo made a big effort to world pricing. The same price in Belgium as Bali. It hardly lasted very long and it still gives those Brits an advantage as they ship VAT free out of Europe. I know I can buy an Assos Bonka Jacket from Germany for $200.00 less out of a retail bike shop. I will pay much of that savings in taxes from Germany but none of it from England. my problem with both prices are that they are different at retail but still more than 100 before taxes between the USA and Canada too.
I am Canadian and you would not believe what we put up with. the Acura MDX is manufactured in Windsor Ontario. Under Free trade this car can be the same price in the USA and Canada but the MDX is about $10,000 cheaper in Hawaii than a dealer in Windsor. I am pretty sick of paying inflated prices just because I live on a certain side of an economic boarder. All those American companies you think you are protecting are doing the same thing as me to source legitimate E tailers. They move manufacturing to a cheaper labour market and put the parts together at home to call it made in America.
BTW now that I have all the parts the wheels are awesome. When they finally arrive at your local bike shop that carries Fulcrum (none here) do check them out.
there are 35 bike shops in my tiny little city of 400,000 but after you have been to 5 or 6 you have seen all the same suppliers and it is only stock on the shelf that differentiates. I support 3 primary shops based on clubs affiliation and the items they carry. I spend plenty here too but some things are too much to buy retail. Etail is thriving for good reason and while the shipping is a pain it is great for non essential and planned purchases. I still had to mail order from a bricks and mortar store too. some shops are Etailers too.
I don't have an answer to the pricing thing and I appreciate that a mail order store has lower costs but retail outlets have to expand their customer base to compensate and the ones doing it well sell by mail, often in greater volumes than others.
I think Chain Reaction does resell OEM as many things they sell come without the boxes.
Last word is Wiggle is addressing the missing parts in a way that makes me happy to use them again. Maybe when the wheels start showing up in North America I will find out what I saved too but it looks like I paid near full US retail.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Wow, you really type well.

 

[AJ101]

We used to get the same in the UK when their was major fluctuation between sterling and the USD. It sucks but then equally when the currencies swing back then the bargains come flooding in. I dread to think how expensivevFar Eastern/ US bike kit must be for the guys in the Euro zone right now.

Back to your wheel issue sounds like unfortunate luck. Ive found wiggle to be good normally at specifying exactly what you'll get included on their specs page. And if I'm not sure then a quick message to their support person gets a quick reply.

BTW gray market is where a smaller bike shop (usually) gets their kit in through unofficial channels. We used to get a couple of guys driving round the UK with van loads of components they'd picked up for cheap in the warehouses in Belgium and resold. Great kit but no after sales support naturally from the country's official importer.

If youre after any more big ticket stuff check out http://spokely.co.uk - it will find you a surprising amount of discounts from UK retailers. All of which should ship overseas no problem.

 

[dsut4392]

FWIW, my experience of mail order:

Chainreaction - spent $thousands, wheelsets, tires, components, everything has been retail packaging.
Wiggle - again spent $ thousands, 80% retail packaging with the occasional OEM (e.g. shimano cassettes)
Merlin - purchased a couple of shimano MTB groupsets, full retail packaging on everything right down to the chains
Ribble - purchased a shimano groupset which was OEM, wheelset was retail, complete bike (Ribble branded Dedacciai Scuro HCR for 1/3 the price of the frame only with Bottechia stickers as ridden in the Giro)

With both CRC and Ribble I've had things missing from an order (once each), and both companies have sorted the problem out pronto. Also had parts missing from a retail box at my LBS, so badmouthing mailorder over things like this is misguided. A friend of mine had a warranty issue with something purchased from CRC, which was also sorted out quickly, so 'self warranty but good luck with that' is a ridiculous slur. CRC and Wiggle are both huge, and in these days of social media if they were not honouring warranties word would get out quickly. A huge part of customer service is being able to sell me what I want, when I want it, and on this front Wiggle and CRC in particular do better than any LBS I've ever walked into. I don't have to take time out of my working day to go to the shop, or go in on the weekend and try to keep my 3 & 1 year olds from assisting in the workshop (they do enough of that at home ), or wait while another customer is served. Even taking delivery time into account, mail order is often as quick as my LBS would be at getting the item in from a distributor.

I still use my LBS for anything I need to try on (shoes, clothing, helmets), the occasional part when I don't already have a spare at home and don't want to wait, for suspension fork/shock services and for anything where I ask their advice and they actually have something meaningful to say. I've also bought my last 2 MTBs from the LBS that lets me take a demo bike for a weekend on real trails. But mostly I know what I need/want from doing my own research online, so it would be silly to spend more at the LBS just for the sake of giving them a job. I like the guys, but you're basically saying I should visit my LBS and hand over to them any cash I save when I shop mail-order...that's merely a very inefficient version of socialism!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

FWIW, my experience of mail order:

Chainreaction - spent $thousands, wheelsets, tires, components, everything has been retail packaging.
Wiggle - again spent $ thousands, 80% retail packaging with the occasional OEM (e.g. shimano cassettes)
Merlin - purchased a couple of shimano MTB groupsets, full retail packaging on everything right down to the chains
Ribble - purchased a shimano groupset which was OEM, wheelset was retail, complete bike (Ribble branded Dedacciai Scuro HCR for 1/3 the price of the frame only with Bottechia stickers as ridden in the Giro)

With both CRC and Ribble I've had things missing from an order (once each), and both companies have sorted the problem out pronto. Also had parts missing from a retail box at my LBS, so badmouthing mailorder over things like this is misguided. A friend of mine had a warranty issue with something purchased from CRC, which was also sorted out quickly, so 'self warranty but good luck with that' is a ridiculous slur. CRC and Wiggle are both huge, and in these days of social media if they were not honouring warranties word would get out quickly. A huge part of customer service is being able to sell me what I want, when I want it, and on this front Wiggle and CRC in particular do better than any LBS I've ever walked into. I don't have to take time out of my working day to go to the shop, or go in on the weekend and try to keep my 3 & 1 year olds from assisting in the workshop (they do enough of that at home ), or wait while another customer is served. Even taking delivery time into account, mail order is often as quick as my LBS would be at getting the item in from a distributor.

I still use my LBS for anything I need to try on (shoes, clothing, helmets), the occasional part when I don't already have a spare at home and don't want to wait, for suspension fork/shock services and for anything where I ask their advice and they actually have something meaningful to say. I've also bought my last 2 MTBs from the LBS that lets me take a demo bike for a weekend on real trails. But mostly I know what I need/want from doing my own research online, so it would be silly to spend more at the LBS just for the sake of giving them a job. I like the guys, but you're basically saying I should visit my LBS and hand over to them any cash I save when I shop mail-order...that's merely a very inefficient version of socialism!

If you need to 'warranty' a Campagnolo or shimano part..they may do that no problem. BUT they don't then send it to Campagnolo or shimano Europe to warranty..they 'self warranty', meaning they take it out of stock.

I have had customers who received either the wrong item or it was busted(Front der wrong clamp and a thumb button broken off in the 'bag')..both just kept the stuff in the big box until I built the bike..both contacted the MO place, and both heard that it had been too long from purchase to contact. BUT yes, these mostly UK places do sell stuff at wholesale(as compared to what I buy it in the USA, as a bike shop)..and yes, a few places in the USA are distributors who now operate retail outlets..they still get their margin. And when warranty, checking the wee bar code on that Campag part..Campagnolo NA will not warranty these items..either sold at wholesale or from Europe.

 

[Master50]

Now that my wheels are in service and Wiggle came through, the bricks and mortar store is still waiting for the same parts I bought from a bricks and mortar store in Germany. I ordered the rear wheel adaptors at my local shop later in the same week I ordered the wrong parts from Germany, sent the wrong parts back and get the right parts. the bottle neck is always the Canadian distributors. they are abysmal at ordering small parts.
I know for example shifter pods are available in Japan for shimano Brifters. North american distributors only carry complete brifters and even getting a left or right only can be a huge challenge. Worse is they are unwilling to even special order many of these items even when they are making restock orders. If it did not come with the container order they don't want to get it for you. Add to that the generally slow response of the factory to supply small parts in single quantities and we wait. Often the only way to get these parts is if you speak italian or german and order them from a small vendor in Europe.

 

[dsut4392]

Re:

Now that my wheels are in service and Wiggle came through, the bricks and mortar store is still waiting for the same parts I bought from a bricks and mortar store in Germany. I ordered the rear wheel adaptors at my local shop later in the same week I ordered the wrong parts from Germany, sent the wrong parts back and get the right parts. the bottle neck is always the Canadian distributors. they are abysmal at ordering small parts.
I know for example shifter pods are available in Japan for shimano Brifters. North american distributors only carry complete brifters and even getting a left or right only can be a huge challenge. Worse is they are unwilling to even special order many of these items even when they are making restock orders. If it did not come with the container order they don't want to get it for you. Add to that the generally slow response of the factory to supply small parts in single quantities and we wait. Often the only way to get these parts is if you speak italian or german and order them from a small vendor in Europe.

Same story in Australia. Distributors in general (having worked with more than a few in a previous 'career' as manager of an outdoor store) aren't interested in helping bricks & mortar stores help retail customers. If they have an exclusive deal with a major brand it's usually one or two forward-orders a year from the manufacturer, arriving 3 months later. Some of them don't even carry warehouse stock that's not pre-sold. They couldn't care less about small quantities, with the lower margin & higher overhead they entail. At the same time they will *** and moan about 'grey market' and 'mail order'. Not bike related, but local Teva importer was a case in point - one order a year, only brought in euro sizes 36-48, although many styles came in sizes 34-50 or 52. Need a 34? Sorry, you'll have to mail order that from REI in the US.
Customers will go wherever their needs are bet met, whether it's price, availability of convenience. If a customer walks out of your store disappointed or dissatisfied, it probably won't be the first place they visit next time they are shopping.

 

[dsut4392]

Re: Re:

If you need to 'warranty' a Campagnolo or shimano part..they may do that no problem. BUT they don't then send it to Campagnolo or shimano Europe to warranty..they 'self warranty', meaning they take it out of stock.

I have had customers who received either the wrong item or it was busted(Front der wrong clamp and a thumb button broken off in the 'bag')..both just kept the stuff in the big box until I built the bike..both contacted the MO place, and both heard that it had been too long from purchase to contact. BUT yes, these mostly UK places do sell stuff at wholesale(as compared to what I buy it in the USA, as a bike shop)..and yes, a few places in the USA are distributors who now operate retail outlets..they still get their margin. And when warranty, checking the wee bar code on that Campag part..Campagnolo NA will not warranty these items..either sold at wholesale or from Europe.

Surely the fact that Campy NA won't warranty imported goods isn't a significant problem, Campy never breaks does it?

Distributors that also operate retail are scum. "Will beat any competitor's offer by 10%"..."Competitor? You're the bloody wholesaler you *******!"

 

[AJ101]

There was a retailer in the UK (not the one you've mentioned) whose prices were so low that other bike store bosses I spoke to showed me the prices they were doing selling items for and the prices that they would pay from official distributers and this other shop were doing them for less than cost price! Incredible.
Great for the savvy cyclist who doesn't need an official warranty. Sure the retailer is supposed to swap the item out in the event of a problem but what happens when they need manufacturer support?

When we were putting Spokely together there were some incredible prices coming through there on end of line stock that it got us wondering if unscrupulous retailers would ever start buying knock-offs from China (think Chinarellos etc) to compete. Hopefully not but at some point it's going to be an unfortunate avenue for some that are struggling.

 

[AJ101]

And yeah I agree - CAMPY NEVER BREAKS!

 

[Master50]

Re:

There was a retailer in the UK (not the one you've mentioned) whose prices were so low that other bike store bosses I spoke to showed me the prices they were doing selling items for and the prices that they would pay from official distributers and this other shop were doing them for less than cost price! Incredible.
Great for the savvy cyclist who doesn't need an official warranty. Sure the retailer is supposed to swap the item out in the event of a problem but what happens when they need manufacturer support?

When we were putting Spokely together there were some incredible prices coming through there on end of line stock that it got us wondering if unscrupulous retailers would ever start buying knock-offs from China (think Chinarellos etc) to compete. Hopefully not but at some point it's going to be an unfortunate avenue for some that are struggling.

Yes he is cheap and he claims to buy his product legit. Definitely a Grey source. A lot of mark ups between the factory and the local shop and he seems to buy at factory margins. There is another way to save big on a bike too. I bought a team bike. very high end. No warrantee at all. I saved %66. on retail but it was crashed and used. I have probably put 25,000 of my own KM since I got it in the beginning of 08. The rider that used it did not offer enough star power to add any value either. I only had to change the bars, stem, and seat.