Mancebo in the Pog era

[BahamontesPhantom]

Francisco Mancebo had 5 top 10 finishes in the tour from 2000-2005 (9,13,7,10,6,4)
Could he replicate this run in 2020-2025? Does he do better or worse? Can he go better than 4th?

 

[Red Rick]

I have no answer apart from I rate this thread 5/7 perfect score

 

[ice&fire]

Bored of Pog vs Merckx and Nibali vs Valverde let's bring Mancebo for a change

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Mancebo has won a national level MTT this year the day before his 50th birthday and he must have been twice as good when he was half as old, so I‘d say Pogačar is lucky (unsurprisingly) that Superstar Mancebo isn‘t in his prime right now taking Tours left and right.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Francisco Mancebo had 5 top 10 finishes in the tour from 2000-2005 (9,13,7,10,6,4)
Could he replicate this run in 2020-2025? Does he do better or worse? Can he go better than 4th?

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/hx0pmBLPjeg?si=SZHgzrTz4Acmc0gl

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/hx0pmBLPjeg?si=SZHgzrTz4Acmc0gl

Why are you confused ? 😕

 

[SHAD0W93]

Why are you confused ? 😕

Since this thread is so random.

Take him out of 2000-2005, no he couldn’t. If he has all the upgrades in everything maybe he does. Heck maybe he wins.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Unpopular opinion, any legit gt rider from the 90ies and late 2000s would be a top dog the current era if given access to current preparation, training, nutrition and so on, way deeper talent pool back then.

 

[jmdirt]

Unpopular opinion, any legit gt rider from the 90ies and late 2000s would be a top dog the current era if given access to current preparation, training, nutrition and so on, way deeper talent pool back then.

Mayo, I couldn't decide if I should use the WOW! or laughing emoji because I'm not sure if you are serious here. You are joking right?

 

[jmdirt]

Comparing eras is pointless IMO. Apples to printer cartridges.

 

[topcat]

I have no answer apart from I rate this thread 5/7 perfect score

I only wish I could come up with a thread as obscure as this one. I don't think the op is in on the joke.

 

[perico]

Isn’t Paco still a pro? Or at least was still a pro a year or two ago.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Unpopular opinion, any legit gt rider from the 90ies and late 2000s would be a top dog the current era if given access to current preparation, training, nutrition and so on, way deeper talent pool back then.

I agree , a rider like Mancebo was more conistent than most in this era , I think it would be Pog, Vingo and then Mancebo

 

[Valv.Piti]

Unpopular opinion, any legit gt rider from the 90ies and late 2000s would be a top dog the current era if given access to current preparation, training, nutrition and so on, way deeper talent pool back then.

I think you mean early 2000's because late 2000's were quite poor IMO.

 

[Potomac]

Unpopular opinion, any legit gt rider from the 90ies and late 2000s would be a top dog the current era if given access to current preparation, training, nutrition and so on, way deeper talent pool back then.

I have the 2003 Tour de France on DVD.
I watch it if I'm stuck having to ride a stationary bike.

What a top 10! And that's with an awful DNF from Beloki

Rnk	Rider	Team	Pnt		Time
1	Armstrong Lance	US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor			83:41:12
2	Ullrich Jan	Team Bianchi	380		1:01
3	Vinokurov Alexandr	Team Telekom	340		4:14
4	Hamilton Tyler	Team CSC	300		6:17
5	Zubeldia Haimar	Euskaltel - Euskadi	280		6:51
6	Mayo Iban	Euskaltel - Euskadi	260		7:06
7	Basso Ivan	Fassa Bortolo	240		10:12
8	Moreau Christophe	Crédit Agricole	220		12:28
9	Sastre Carlos	Team CSC	210		18:49
10	Mancebo Francisco	iBanesto.com	200		19:15
11	Menchov Denis	iBanesto.com	190		19:44

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Mancebo has won a national level MTT this year the day before his 50th birthday and he must have been twice as good when he was half as old, so I‘d say Pogačar is lucky (unsurprisingly) that Superstar Mancebo isn‘t in his prime right now taking Tours left and right.

If they give him Colnago V4Rs this would end cycling as we know it.

 

[Peyresourde]

Paco Mancebo was quite good especially in the 2004 Vuelta and 2005 Tour. With this level he could have probably podiumed in the 2021 and 2022 Tour de France. Top 10 would have been absolutely no problem for him in any year.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think you mean early 2000's because late 2000's were quite poor IMO.

Yes, 2000-2005/6

 

[Brullnux]

I think you mean early 2000's because late 2000's were quite poor IMO.

To be fair, the current crop of GC riders feel as if there's one five star contender, one four star, and then a bunch of two-stars and one-stars. The depth at the moment is not great and I don't think it's much better than that period.

Feels harsh to put Vingegaard and Pogacar at 4 and 5 stars respectively, but you know what I mean. Two generational talents and a big, big gap to people who are not better than the 2010s B tier. Onley is a good rider but 4th at the Tour? Really? He feels like he would be a 6th-10th guy back then

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Isn’t Paco still a pro? Or at least was still a pro a year or two ago.

He rides races on the Asian racing circuit. I don't think they are UCI races though.

Speaking of Mancebo, I rewatched the entire 2005 Vuelta this weekend because it is simply one of my favourite grand tours of all time. One of the things that I find extremely charming about this era of grand tour riding is riders like Mancebo. He was a great example of an imperfect hero with his diesel climbing and crooked position on the bike. Probably not very efficient in his pedalling and very far from the machine-like perfection that almost every pro today exudes.

His stage win to Arcalis stands out in particular, where he was first dropped by Heras and Menchov, then grinded his way back and did all the pacing the rest of way and somehow managed to win the sprint. The fact that he, out of everyone in a quartet, managed to win that sprint also tells a story about how GC riders / climbers of that era were really not very explosive, unlike today. In general, when watching grand tours pre-2010, and compare with todays GC riding, the riders of the old era really appears much slower in comparision. Or rather, the "old" races have much more of a fatigue build up/endurance feel.

To be honest I liked this era better than today. The characters were more colorful and the sport was less professional. Mistakes, that would be obvious today, were made back then. Cycling in the modern era is almost too perfect, like it is clinical and impersonal.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Isn’t Paco still a pro? Or at least was still a pro a year or two ago.

Paco is still registered to a Continental team, this year it's Pingtan Tourism Island - until the end of last year it was Matrix-Powertag. He's not entered any UCI races so far this season but he'll probably enter some as the year goes on. He won an MTT on Haza del Lino on the Spanish amateur scene last month, although it's very much a minor thing as a race - only one other entrant is on a division one amateur team in Spain - and is currently as of today partway through a national calendar race in Sichuan in China.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

https://www.domestiquecycling.com/e...ebo-on-puerto-rock-racing-and-riding-past-50/

A nice read, where Paco reflects a bit on his career.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Bored of Pog vs Merckx and Nibali vs Valverde let's bring Mancebo for a change

We could also bring Haimar Zubeldia.

Gr. Jegat's top 10 on the last Tour seemed very similar to Haimar Zubeldia.

So the answer could be yes, that kind of top10 was also present in a Tour won by Pogacar. The difference is that, being French, we always had reference to Gr. Jegat; otherwise, his tenth place would have gone as unnoticed as Zubeldia's.

 

[YavorD]

To be fair, the current crop of GC riders feel as if there's one five star contender, one four star, and then a bunch of two-stars and one-stars. The depth at the moment is not great and I don't think it's much better than that period.

Feels harsh to put Vingegaard and Pogacar at 4 and 5 stars respectively, but you know what I mean. Two generational talents and a big, big gap to people who are not better than the 2010s B tier. Onley is a good rider but 4th at the Tour? Really? He feels like he would be a 6th-10th guy back then

Voeckler and Van Den Broeck were 4th in early '10s.
The jury is still on, but Onley may end up as a better rider than them.
But yes, I agree, the average depth of fuel feels rather low now.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

We could also bring Haimar Zubeldia.

Gr. Jegat's top 10 on the last Tour seemed very similar to Haimar Zubeldia.

So the answer could be yes, that kind of top10 was also present in a Tour won by Pogacar. The difference is that, being French, we always had reference to Gr. Jegat; otherwise, his tenth place would have gone as unnoticed as Zubeldia's.

Zubeldia's 5th in the Tour'2003 was quite impressive. He beat a very in-form Mayo, Basso, Sastre and Mancebo then. Less than 7' behind Armstrong, 2 and half min. off the podium.