Marion Jones interview on BBC tomorow.

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Dec 4, 2010
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These types of threads are so lame.

Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
So - nobody is allowed discuss anything outside cycling? Anything else we aren't allowed do?

Also you will find many that have contributed here have been equally vocal in their condemnation of Pro Cyclists.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
Marion, let me be the first to welcome you to the board. ;)
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Welcome to the board...

fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
Marion, let me be the first to welcome you to the board. ;)
 
Aug 13, 2009
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AnythingButKestrel said:
Someone in the know (RR?) correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the purpose of injecting vitamins is to reduce the load on the liver versus ingesting the vitamins orally. The demands on the body are enough during a grand tour that apparently the difference in rider fatigue is substantial (at least anecdotally).

That said, I've lost all respect for Marion Jones. There is no way I believe that bilge.
This is sort of correct. The key issue is absorption in the digestive system, which can be compromised during heavy work loads.

As for Marion she is lying. Conte gave a good amount of evidence about Jones and her doping. It is clear she knew exactly what she was doing. Yeah, she filed a suit against Conte when she was in her lying phase but that has been dropped fro a long time.

Jones is a great example of hubris.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
Cyclists are all innocent. Didn't you know that?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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AnythingButKestrel said:
Someone in the know (RR?) correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the purpose of injecting vitamins is to reduce the load on the liver versus ingesting the vitamins orally. The demands on the body are enough during a grand tour that apparently the difference in rider fatigue is substantial (at least anecdotally). That said, I've lost all respect for Marion Jones. There is no way I believe that bilge.
That is an acknowledged demand on cycling few other sports share. It's what makes these events really monumental. What some people are ignoring is that the history of injecting drugs into cyclists existed long before any vitamin-pushing trainer thought of it. Coaches and DSs seized on that excuse to explain injections.
Show me conclusive evidence of a direct benefit to a 3 week stage racer of actually injecting vitamins vs. oral ingestion and you might make a feeble, but not legal case.
Show us a reliable, scientific case where vitamin supplements have an advantage over naturally derived food based nutrition for that sporting period of 3 weeks and I might be even slightly convinced.
Again, show me an Olympic level sprinter that actually knows a direct injection of vitamins, illegal or not; has a benefit and Marion Jones might have an argument.
Hell, she married a shot-putter/gym-roider. She knew every thing she was doing.
 
Keeping down with the Jones

"Many moons ago, I worked briefly in criminal defence, and back then it was called 'stacking the case'.

You went out with your first line being "my client is innocent" ... but"

As a lawyer who has worked most of his career as a criminal defence lawyer I am disappointed you did not understand that it is entrenched in British, Canadian and American law that an accused is presumed by law not to be guilty. It is not "stacking the case", whatever that means. It is a presumption of law. It is the law. Only after the appropriate proof of guilt is the presumption replaced (I can understand why you decided to focus your talents in other areas of law).

Marion Jones went to jail for lying to Federal agents, not for using PEDs. That in itself should answer any question of her credibility.

As a Jon Stewart fan I am disappointed he would give her a platform to spout her incredible and doubtful story.

Thank you Hitch for alerting us to her BBC interview, because although Jones sport was different, the issues are not and her rationalizations (irrationalizations) for using PEDs are profoundly similar :D
 
Mar 17, 2009
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JPM London said:
Does anybody make any sens of what she's saying?

Just heard another tidbit of her interview. She's also saying that she thinks "society would have benefited more from just stripping her for victories and fame than putting her away for 6 months".

Sorry, didn't you also say you were innocent? Or am I missing something?
Watched the whole sorry thing last night. She was referring to the sentence for perjury which IMO makes her response worse.

Life ban is too short for her. Denise Lewis was on the show too and was of the opinion that life was all she deserved.
 
RobbieCanuck said:
As a lawyer who has worked most of his career as a criminal defence lawyer I am disappointed you did not understand that it is entrenched in British, Canadian and American law that an accused is presumed by law not to be guilty. It is not "stacking the case", whatever that means. It is a presumption of law. It is the law. Only after the appropriate proof of guilt is the presumption replaced (I can understand why you decided to focus your talents in other areas of law)...
That is the law, yes. However, how people approach and practise it around the common law world can be different, like their views of Marion Jones et al. Don't be disappointed about it.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.
No, as you will see if you read any of these threads, we are not blinkered in our view at all. Cycling does need to clean up, but we aren't discussing this to make ourselves feel better at all.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
Marion jones's situation is no different to athletes caught cheating/lying in any arena. The issue with her is that she was convicted of perjury on top of being a cheat. Does she admit her fault graciously? No, she employs the "poor me" defence. Unlike a cyclist she is in a higher profile sport so attracts much more attention by her actions both in cheating and, more worryingly, how she dealt with the consequences. She lied to investigators, then a court yet thinks that a 6 month sentence is too harsh.

Judging by your two posts you aren't a cyclist nor a fan. So do yourself and the rest of us a favour, go back out the way you came unless you want to contribute to the discussion.
 
Nov 24, 2010
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
hello fujisst. Like me, you are a junior member too - ie small number of posts. If I may comment - you really have jumped in "boots and all" on your second post(maybe I did too!). Of course that is your right. Enjoy the clinic

In reply to your first paragraph - a certain percentage of forum members would probably acknowledge cycling's dirty laundry(myself included). As for deflecting, I totally disagree there. fujisst, let me offer my opinion. With all professional sports, there are financial incentives(ie money) at the end of the rainbow.
Why does a stockbroker become involved in illegal insider trading? answer -> financial incentives. The stockbroker is trying to gain an unfair $$advantage.
Why does a professional sport participant dope(ie use peds) answer -> financial incentives. The player is trying to gain an unfair $$advantage.
The possibility of cheating(ie fraud) is always present in ANY professional sport. In the clinic, I live in reality and look outside the back yard. Reality is - peds use is in a lot of professional sports

Agreed - Marion is no worse than any other peds using cyclist and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial.

and finally fujisst - What results would Marion have achieved at sydney 2000 olympics without a "boost"?
How much money had marion earned since her initial involvement with balco up until her conviction?

cheers dallas
 
Don't bother with fujisst. He/she made pretty much the same post in another thread, several people rebutted it, they never got a counter-argument, and now he/she's spouting the same nonsense again. Not worth your effort.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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I've not seen it yet, was hoping to get it on catch up but it doesn't seem to be available yet. From the few clips it seems like the same old stuff, but I'm interested to see what Denise Lewis and Michael Johnson have to say.
The whole 'society would have benefited' thing is rubbish, she can still make as much of a difference to society, if not more, having been to jail for lying about her crimes. A point that her website (http://www.marionjones.org) misses also, in the many buzz words and phrases it contains.
Also interesting, or not, are some of the tweets by @gabby_logan (who interviewed her) e.g "her lawyer sat on me (almost literally)" + "yes was only allowed to ask what was in her book" etc.
@katharinemerry , who will have raced against her, also says "Marion was always savvy and known how to play the game since i 1st raced her aged 17.... also clearly full of crap!"
It's all PR spin for a book, same old lies disguised as half-truths.
In my opinion....
p.s. first post, break me in gently.... Ta.
 
RobbieCanuck said:
"Many moons ago, I worked briefly in criminal defence, and back then it was called 'stacking the case'.

You went out with your first line being "my client is innocent" ... but"

As a lawyer who has worked most of his career as a criminal defence lawyer I am disappointed you did not understand that it is entrenched in British, Canadian and American law that an accused is presumed by law not to be guilty. It is not "stacking the case", whatever that means. It is a presumption of law. It is the law. Only after the appropriate proof of guilt is the presumption replaced (I can understand why you decided to focus your talents in other areas of law).

Marion Jones went to jail for lying to Federal agents, not for using PEDs. That in itself should answer any question of her credibility.

As a Jon Stewart fan I am disappointed he would give her a platform to spout her incredible and doubtful story.

Thank you Hitch for alerting us to her BBC interview, because although Jones sport was different, the issues are not and her rationalizations (irrationalizations) for using PEDs are profoundly similar :D
Nothing is stopping a lawyer from saying "my client is presumed innocent"

If the lawyer knows their client is guilty an says they are innocent, he is still lying - even if it is allowed.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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D-Queued said:
And JV has confirmed directly that they are a 'no needles' team.

I don't believe Marion's BS. And, am skeptical of vitamin injections. Please provide confirming chemical analysis and third party oversight.

Dave.
Dave, since I am lazy and have not checked yet, does any team especially Garmin have third party oversight for their training methods or supplement use? Seems like it would be hard to monitor during the time a cyclist is away from the team. When they are all together for training and competition it would be an easy target.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...

Marion Jones subject is very interesting for a comparison to the current US Federal Investigation into USPS & Lance Armstrong. It is very relevant when some consider what type of punishment some Pro Cyclist may be facing if they have lied to the Federal investigation. So for my opinion I think it is worth discussion. YMMV
 
Apr 13, 2010
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Dave, since I am lazy and have not checked yet, does any team especially Garmin have third party oversight for their training methods or supplement use? Seems like it would be hard to monitor during the time a cyclist is away from the team. When they are all together for training and competition it would be an easy target.
I've heard they dip all the riders in water whenever they come in. If there are bubbles in the water they know the rider's been using needles...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
Marion Jones subject is very interesting for a comparison to the current US Federal Investigation into USPS & Lance Armstrong. It is very relevant when some consider what type of punishment some Pro Cyclist may be facing if they have lied to the Federal investigation. So for my opinion I think it is worth discussion. YMMV
I heard they do all of their testing at Red Lobster
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
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fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
I resent that. Ours (cycling) is the most tested sport, the sport with the highest moral standard, nicest and most honest participants.

We in cycling follow the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule with impunity.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I heard they do all of their testing at Red Lobster
Now that would be something no doubt.

I said jail was the best place for Marion Jones just after she was sentenced. Now she has these interviews and her current comments. I think my initial assessment was dead nuts. She is still trying to make excuses and lies regarding her original lies.


RR
They could hold the testing at a local Red Lobster and pass out Cheddar bay biscuts for snacks!

I heard that even Bob Stoops of the OK Sooners holds his weekly radio call in show at the red lobster in Norman OK. I wonder if there is anything other than a Red Lobster in Norman?????????
"Radio - Sooner Sports Talk with Bob Stoops

Each Tuesday throughout the season, Sooner Sports Talk provides fans with the opportunity to talk to OU head coach Bob Stoops. The state-wide broadcast airs live from 7:05-8 p.m. CT at Red Lobster in Norman."
http://www.soonersports.com/ot/footbl-broadcasts.html
 
Dallas_ said:
hello fujisst. Like me, you are a junior member too - ie small number of posts. If I may comment - you really have jumped in "boots and all" on your second post(maybe I did too!). Of course that is your right. Enjoy the clinic
cyclo-chris said:
p.s. first post, break me in gently.... Ta.
Relax guys. Posting count means nothing.

I've not seen it yet, was hoping to get it on catch up but it doesn't seem to be available yet. From the few clips it seems like the same old stuff, but I'm interested to see what Denise Lewis and Michael Johnson have to say.
Why do you choose MJ and Denise Lewis? Do they have a doping history. To me michael johnson is suspicious.
1 because this is the clinic so i can find people suspicious when i want to. Especially since olympic 400m champions who have been caught doping cant touch his record years later.
2 when usain bolt showed himself to the world at the olympics by winning the 100m while jogging half the route, Johnson boasted how clean bolt was, while Bolt was still celebrating on the track. He said "and the best thing is, he is 100% clean" before Bolt had even taken the doping test.


fujisst said:
Just another attempt at cycling fans to deflect moral culpability with regard to cycling's dirty laundry - go and disparage someone from another sport. Suppose it most make you folks feel better in some ridiculous way.

Marion Jones is no wors than ALL the other pro cyclists and their ridiculous stories and charades of denial. You folks really need to get a grip and cease with the judgements on a non-cyclist...you only need to look in your own back yard for targets of your venomous barbs...
Your a troll. I await your rebuttal

hrotha said:
Not worth your effort.
But it makes me feel big:eek:
 
Dec 7, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Relax guys. Posting count means nothing.



Why do you choose MJ and Denise Lewis? Do they have a doping history. To me michael johnson is suspicious.
1 because this is the clinic so i can find people suspicious when i want to. Especially since olympic 400m champions who have been caught doping cant touch his record years later.
2 when usain bolt showed himself to the world at the olympics by winning the 100m while jogging half the route, Johnson boasted how clean bolt was, while Bolt was still celebrating on the track. He said "and the best thing is, he is 100% clean" before Bolt had even taken the doping test.



Your a troll. I await your rebuttal



But it makes me feel big:eek:
Michael Johnsons gold shoes said it all. He knew that all that “preparation” was going to “give” him gold. His comments on the television broadcast concerning Bolt was good for a laugh. Maybe as much of a laugh as when Carl Lewis made mention after Ben Johnson had just dusted him----------“ I ran as fast as any normal human could”. Come to find out Carl Lewis had been busted by the USOC for doping but it was all quiet during those days. I guess we need to show them Russians who the sporting boss was.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Why do you choose MJ and Denise Lewis? Do they have a doping history. To me michael johnson is suspicious.
THey were the other people interviewed as part of the programme.

Their views were pretty contrasting. He came across as sympathetic to her "poor choices" defence, whereas Denis Lewis was arguing that a lifetime ban was more appropriate for breaking rules of sport.
 

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