Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

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kurtinsc said:
Just a point, but Cav ended up finishing with 220 points to 280 for Sagan. Simply put, if Cav was able to make the finish line on the stages he crashed on (stage 4 and stage 6) and finish ahead of Sagan, he would have won green this year.

With someone like Sagan there he can't afford to miss sprints due to crashes. But if he doesn't miss sprints, he can still win green over Sagan as long as he is clearly faster in the sprints.
Sagan had 421 points
 
Holtend said:
This tour I really missed HTC and their immense strength in chasing down so many breakaways.
I know I'm probably in the minority but I would love him to have a whole team again with 1 aim, getting him stage wins :)
You are certainly in the minority, but you're not alone, I agree completely. ;)
 
Nov 17, 2009
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burning said:
Sagan had 421 points
Okay... eye malfunction.... lined Sagan up with Greipel's total.

Still not an impossible thing for Cav to make up, but much harder. If he won stages 4 and 6 rather then not finishing in the points, he makes up 102 of the 201 points he finished down to Sagan. Were there 99 points of intermediate sprints available for cav? Let's see:

Looks like he stopped trying for them in stage 7. I think barring crashes, if he were in the hunt he could have made up 5 on stage 7 (Greipel's total), 11 on stage 12 (Goss's total and moving Sagan down a spot), 6 on stage 13 (Greipel's total), 4 on 14 (Greipel's total), 9 on 15 (beating Sagan and moving him down one), and possibly a few points on the final intermediate sprint if it were to be contested... say 5.

So only 40... still 59 short.

Any sprints for consolation points that he didn't bother with that sagan did? I'm not sure. Perhaps stage 15 to Pau? Probably Sagan could have done something there if needed.

So I stand corrected... probably not enough for Cav to do it in this parcours without a team setting up more sprints for intermediate points for him to eat up to make up for Sagan getting points on finishes Cav can't make.
 
Jun 26, 2012
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kurtinsc said:
Still not an impossible thing for Cav to make up, but much harder. If he won stages 4 and 6 rather then not finishing in the points, he makes up 102 of the 201 points he finished down to Sagan. Were there 99 points of intermediate sprints available for cav? Let's see:
If you are considers what would happen without crashes, don't forget that also Sagan crashed on, I think, stage 5, where Cavendish came 4th or 5th.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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johnnycash said:
As well as the results, the fact the world champion and the top sprinter puts aside his ego, and carries bottles, does stints on the front and takes what modest opportunties are presented, is a credit to him.
or you could look at it as a sign of disrespect that the world champ and defending green jersey holder largely had to fend for himself
 
Feb 17, 2012
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Plenty of World Champions have had to do some of the 'dirty work' in recent history. Nothing to credit for nor is it a sign of disrespect of the jersey.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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It's not like Sagan had much help from his team. Man on man Cavendish loses. I'm not a big fan of either, but Sagan is the embodiment of the green jersey: it's made for a cyclist like him. It's not made for Cav no matter how pathetic ASO gets with their rules.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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El Pistolero said:
It's not like Sagan had much help from his team. Man on man Cavendish loses. I'm not a big fan of either, but Sagan is the embodiment of the green jersey: it's made for a cyclist like him. It's not made for Cav no matter how pathetic ASO gets with their rules.
I'd go with this, Cav seems much better suited to grabbing suitable stage wins rather tactically collecting points.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
It's not like Sagan had much help from his team. Man on man Cavendish loses. I'm not a big fan of either, but Sagan is the embodiment of the green jersey: it's made for a cyclist like him. It's not made for Cav no matter how pathetic ASO gets with their rules.
Well... yes. But most more casual fans view the green jersey as an award for the best sprinter as opposed to what it really is (most consistent finisher).

The problem is it's clear that Cav is the best sprinter. Sagan is simply the best climber of the top 5-6 sprinters. Kind of like how Cippolini or Kirsipuu in some years would dominate the early sprints of the Tour then drop out and Zabel would end up in green... except that Cav isn't dropping out.

So while I'd agree that Sagan may be the emodiment of what the green jersey is, it's not really how most casual fans view the jersey.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
Sagan is the embodiment of the green jersey: it's made for a cyclist like him.
Yes, this is accurate, although Cav with a team around him probably could have posed a very strong challenge. Sagan certainly deserved it though. And unlike El Pistolero I rather like both. Cav certainly has grown on me this year by winning without a train, showing he is a little classier.
 
gustienordic said:
Yes, this is accurate, although Cav with a team around him probably could have posed a very strong challenge. Sagan certainly deserved it though. And unlike El Pistolero I rather like both. Cav certainly has grown on me this year by winning without a train, showing he is a little classier.
It would be nice to have a battle between a well supported Cav, capable of winning 5 or 6 stages, and Sagan, wouldn't it? Sagan thoroughly deserved it this year, though, and will be extremely difficult to beat in the future, based on this year's form mind.

Cav's rep has certainly improved around these parts. Not so long ago, he was Public Enemy No. 1. There's now a grudging respect, even a slight warmth towards him generally. He's grown up, for sure, but of course Wiggins's exploits have caught the attention of the hatchet men.
 
Sep 23, 2011
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Sagan is the embodiment of the green jersey: it's made for a cyclist like him.
I can't agree with this: If there is a dominant sprinter in the race then he should have a good chance of winning the green jersey. It would be ridiculous if that weren't possible.

Actually I think the current balance looks pretty good. It sets up the chance of a fascinating contest between an outstanding sprinter and an outstanding all-rounder, which hopefully we will see for a few years to come.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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On a Tour route with less Sagan stages Cav could win green again. But if he stays interested in it, Sagan probably has it sown up for the foreseeable.
 
Mar 28, 2012
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Has anyone noticed Cav is starting his sprints from farther out in the last few sprints? I wonder if he will do that for the Olympics, and if the other sprinters have taken notice and will adjust their style.

He may have to, because he has less men to lead out in the Olympics.

Thoughts?
 
robert_c said:
Has anyone noticed Cav is starting his sprints from farther out in the last few sprints? I wonder if he will do that for the Olympics, and if the other sprinters have taken notice and will adjust their style.

He may have to, because he has less men to lead out in the Olympics.

Thoughts?
He shows he's capable of doing it, that's for sure, so that renders sprint trains from other contenders pointless. Best chance would be to sit in his wheel, wait for when he goes (hopefully for you early), then try to kickstart your own sprint with 100 or 50 meters to go. Easier said than done, because the acceleration of Cav is brutal as well, so staying in his wheel is a tall order.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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robert_c said:
Has anyone noticed Cav is starting his sprints from farther out in the last few sprints? I wonder if he will do that for the Olympics, and if the other sprinters have taken notice and will adjust their style.

He may have to, because he has less men to lead out in the Olympics.

Thoughts?
the last 2 sprints were from alot further out because he'd not done much all tour and was bursting with energy
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Arnout said:
He shows he's capable of doing it, that's for sure, so that renders sprint trains from other contenders pointless. Best chance would be to sit in his wheel, wait for when he goes (hopefully for you early), then try to kickstart your own sprint with 100 or 50 meters to go. Easier said than done, because the acceleration of Cav is brutal as well, so staying in his wheel is a tall order.
Goss tried to do just that on the Champs-Élysées . when Cav accelerated Goss was right on his wheel. he was going so fast however, Goss was simply unable to hold his wheel
 
Mar 28, 2012
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Kender said:
the last 2 sprints were from alot further out because he'd not done much all tour and was bursting with energy
So I assume he is still bursting with energy, so perhaps another long sprint. Unless of course, Peta has sucked the energy out of him since he's been home.
 
Apr 25, 2009
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Morbius said:
I can't agree with this: If there is a dominant sprinter in the race then he should have a good chance of winning the green jersey. It would be ridiculous if that weren't possible.

Actually I think the current balance looks pretty good. It sets up the chance of a fascinating contest between an outstanding sprinter and an outstanding all-rounder, which hopefully we will see for a few years to come.
I know what you mean, but stage wins are a reward in themselves, as is winning on the Champs D'Elysees.. I think the green jersey is a perfect way to reward a rider of Sagan's calibre and type, it was always inspiring seeing Kelly in Green hanging with the main guys in the mountains, he wasn't going to win the Tour, KOM or be the fastest sprinter but not having a jersey would have seemed unfair, same for Sagan. The green jersey rewards consistency and you have to get over the lumps to win it.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Morbius said:
I can't agree with this: If there is a dominant sprinter in the race then he should have a good chance of winning the green jersey. It would be ridiculous if that weren't possible.

Actually I think the current balance looks pretty good. It sets up the chance of a fascinating contest between an outstanding sprinter and an outstanding all-rounder, which hopefully we will see for a few years to come.
just like the KoM is won by the best climber right? As opposed the the rider that goes out in breaks on 2 or 3 stages to hunt for it.

Who is currently regarded as the best climber? you'd be hard pressed to find many that would vote against Contador. how many GT KoM overall wins has he had? none.


Green jersey was introduced to give spinters something to ride for. It doesn't mean it's theirs by right. The Giro equivilent is even less of a sprinters jersey as mountain and flat stages all carry the same points
 
Aug 13, 2010
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Orla Chennaoui ‏@SkyOrla
Mark Cavendish says he's considering going back to the track for 2016 live on @skysportsnews

Sounds like the lack of an Olympic medal is still niggling at him. Back to the Madison perhaps?
 
Aug 13, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Lol, giving up road for track?
Just because you don't think much of the track I don't see why it it so lol. Funny how you complain about riders not being multi-dimensional e.g. only sprinters but if they compete in different disciplines such as track or cycle cross then you dislike them.

Besides, depending on the event he chooses he can combine the two.
 

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