Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

This is the critical moment and what caused the crash. Park & Cav are looking down to Viviani about to come under in order to drop down and get on their wheel. Because Park is looking too, he doesn't notice how much he's now overlapping Cav's wheel. Cav's not even looking at Park and so it's simply a racing incident. Park will be the first to say it wasn't Cav's fault I hope.

photo hosting

Admittedly, Park didn't do himself any favours by overlapping the wheel but it was Cav's fault

No the problem is Park. Look at the video. Both are looking at Viviani, but Park is not aware he's travelling faster than Cav and beginning to overlap. Before Park looks down he's correctly positioned in relation to Cav's rear wheel, while looking at Viviani though he speeds up unintentionally probably and ends up underlapping Cav's rear wheel. It's not upto Cav to be aware of this because Cav is infront and it's simply not how you race track anyway. It would be chaos if the rider in front is expected to speed up just because the rider behind him is and has overlapped wheels? This is how you're taught to ride the track. Never overlap wheels, it's the main thing you have to be aware of and it's the rider behind's responsibility, not the one in front to not overlap.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

No the problem is Park. Look at the video. Both are looking at Viviani, but Park is not aware he's travelling faster than Cav and beginning to overlap. Before Park looks down he's correctly positioned in relation to Cav's rear wheel, while looking at Viviani though he speeds up unintentionally probably and ends up underlapping Cav's rear wheel. It's not upto Cav to be aware of this because Cav is infront and it's simply not how you race track anyway. It would be chaos if the rider in front is expected to speed up just because the rider behind him is and has overlapped wheels? This is how you're taught to ride the track. Never overlap wheels, it's the main thing you have to be aware of and it's the rider behind's responsibility, not the one in front to not overlap.

Are you for real?
Cavendish was first riding *up* (i.e. away from Park, slowing), then suddenly down. That's not a normal move in itself. You can say Park would've done well to be more attentive, but surely most of the responsibility lies with Cavendish.

 

[jpl760]

Hi ya’ll. First time posting here. Thought I’d chime in as I have a bit of track racing experience (20+ years). The crash was not intentional at all. If anything, Park was just as careless as MC. Both riders swing up to adjust position (move back in the field), MC ahead of Park. Both riders look back at the pack, assessing when/where to re-enter. Mark dives first, while Park is still looking back. There is nothing wrong with this move – it is expected when the game is on and you are above the blue line. No-one rides high for more than a second. You’re either going up-track or down-track I have no doubt MC saw Park, and I have no doubt that MC assumed park would adjust accordingly. Unfortunately that didn’t happen. Park came up under MC, looked away, making an assumption MC would still be moving up track. Look at his line – quite possible he would have hit MC had MC held his line. Coming up under, and looking back with the assumption that the rider in front would not dive was an error in judgment on Park’s part. Usually you’re OK – but not always. Really just bad timing. Had he not looked back, he would have dove back down with MC, or cut behind if possible.

Not blaming Park here, but IMO, both riders are at fault..

 

[yaco]

Re:

While I'm usually all for riders branching out and trying to do well in proper (read Monuments ) racing, I think based on his performances this year it would be very silly of Cavendish to risk his chance of more GT stage wins by trying to win races he really doesn't have a chance in. If this year had been a repeat of the last couple I'd be all for it, but not based on his current performances.

Cavendish branched out this year by focusing on the track - It seemed to help him in the TDF.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

No the problem is Park. Look at the video. Both are looking at Viviani, but Park is not aware he's travelling faster than Cav and beginning to overlap. Before Park looks down he's correctly positioned in relation to Cav's rear wheel, while looking at Viviani though he speeds up unintentionally probably and ends up underlapping Cav's rear wheel. It's not upto Cav to be aware of this because Cav is infront and it's simply not how you race track anyway. It would be chaos if the rider in front is expected to speed up just because the rider behind him is and has overlapped wheels? This is how you're taught to ride the track. Never overlap wheels, it's the main thing you have to be aware of and it's the rider behind's responsibility, not the one in front to not overlap.

Are you for real?
Cavendish was first riding *up* (i.e. away from Park, slowing), then suddenly down. That's not a normal move in itself. You can say Park would've done well to be more attentive, but surely most of the responsibility lies with Cavendish.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/olympic-games-cavendish-admits-blame-for-omnium-crash/

 

[rehy90]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

 

[glassmoon]

even pros are not consensual about that move so how could we (the newbies/laics) be?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

No the problem is Park. Look at the video. Both are looking at Viviani, but Park is not aware he's travelling faster than Cav and beginning to overlap. Before Park looks down he's correctly positioned in relation to Cav's rear wheel, while looking at Viviani though he speeds up unintentionally probably and ends up underlapping Cav's rear wheel. It's not upto Cav to be aware of this because Cav is infront and it's simply not how you race track anyway. It would be chaos if the rider in front is expected to speed up just because the rider behind him is and has overlapped wheels? This is how you're taught to ride the track. Never overlap wheels, it's the main thing you have to be aware of and it's the rider behind's responsibility, not the one in front to not overlap.

Are you for real?
Cavendish was first riding *up* (i.e. away from Park, slowing), then suddenly down. That's not a normal move in itself. You can say Park would've done well to be more attentive, but surely most of the responsibility lies with Cavendish.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/olympic-games-cavendish-admits-blame-for-omnium-crash/

Thankyou. Samhocking? Spalco?

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

not quite. The guy who won seems like a parody of a jackass. He clips the other guys wheel. The other guy falls. He crosses the line pumping his fists. Maybe there is a backstory.

 

["Jeff"]

Re:

even pros are not consensual about that move so how could we (the newbies/laics) be?

What are you trying to say ? That an opinion of a pro has more valid while most actually live under a rock ?

This is no science.


Cavendish has always been a ****head and this is no surprise.

 

[saganboss]

Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

come on, i hate what cav did, but you can't compare those 2 incidents, chiappa was an total idiot , he took down gane intentionally and he was rightfully dsq. maybe i don't know the backstory but that was pathetic

 

[saganboss]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

not quite. The guy who won seems like a parody of a jackass. He clips the other guys wheel. The other guy falls. He crosses the line pumping his fists. Maybe there is a backstory.

why do you say the french was a jackass ? the italian took him down

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Well, Cavendish really has disgraced himself and british cycling... Silver ? really ? Silver !!!? I mean surely it's because another briton won gold right ! What you say ? the winner is not even briton ? Gasp !!! Such an embarassment... Alas, poor Britain !

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

not quite. The guy who won seems like a parody of a jackass. He clips the other guys wheel. The other guy falls. He crosses the line pumping his fists. Maybe there is a backstory.

why do you say the french was a jackass ? the italian took him down

What are you looking at? There is a guy in blue kit thrusting his fists as he crosses the line and one in white with Cofidis written on the side lying on the ground?

 

[saganboss]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

not quite. The guy who won seems like a parody of a jackass. He clips the other guys wheel. The other guy falls. He crosses the line pumping his fists. Maybe there is a backstory.

why do you say the french was a jackass ? the italian took him down

What are you looking at? There is a guy in blue kit thrusting his fists as he crosses the line and one in white with Cofidis written on the side lying on the ground?

But the guy in the cofidis kit won the race. The guy in the blue kit took down him and then started to celebrate for some reason

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Thankyou. Samhocking? Spalco?

I would say it was mostly Cavendish's fault, but I don't think it was a punishable offence.

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFSSXcjJeQ just watch from 5:25, looks familiar?

not quite. The guy who won seems like a parody of a jackass. He clips the other guys wheel. The other guy falls. He crosses the line pumping his fists. Maybe there is a backstory.

why do you say the french was a jackass ? the italian took him down

What are you looking at? There is a guy in blue kit thrusting his fists as he crosses the line and one in white with Cofidis written on the side lying on the ground?

But the guy in the cofidis kit won the race. The guy in the blue kit took down him and then started to celebrate for some reason

That was where I stopped watching.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Thankyou. Samhocking? Spalco?

I would say it was mostly Cavendish's fault, but I don't think it was a punishable offence.

Taking the blame was the right thing to do when the other guy is in hospital, but I think most riders who race track will recognise this type of crash as part of racing.

 

[TMP402]

Disappointing he's not at Hamburg tomorrow.

 

[MartinGT]

Apologies if this is dumb, but is Cav a possible for a win in the Worlds? I would have thought it would but not really heard anything about him?

 

[carolina]

the worlds team is going to be built around him.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-and-ellingworth-scouting-rider-options-for-world-championships/

 

[PremierAndrew]

Cav started the season with 3 major goals: TdF Yellow Jersey, Olympic Gold and Rainbow at the Worlds.

Pretty successful season so far and definitely one of the 3 top favourites in October

Regarding the worlds, he's got a great squad too. There's potential for crosswinds, and he'll have Thomas Stannard and Rowe to help with that. Dowsett also looks nailed on to be part of the team. Dan McLay has been sprinting well and could form part of the sprint train, Adam Blythe, Ben Swift and Andy Fenn would also be able to a decent job

 

[jsem94]

Got to admit he will be a huge favorite amidst the potential chaos of Germany's team with potentially three leaders.

 

[King Boonen]

Bear in mind Cav has a WCRR title already. Yes of course he's going to want another, but it does mean that if GB are smart (which they never are) they can stick a man in the break and leave it up to the other sprinters teams to work. Even if they don't get a man in the break they can still expect the others to do the work as they have guys chasing their first WCRR on a course that is basically a sprinters dream.

 

[TMP402]