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McQuaid's Marion Jones Defense

Pat's tried a Marion Jones defense. "No new positives. The sport of cycling is clean!"

-They got rid of Gripper and got a far more compliant employee with Rossi. Pat's handling of the interview shows this.
-Pat confirmed they aren't performing as many tests.
-They confirmed Ashenden's claims of missing data from profiles, but then Pat launches a personal attack against Ashenden as the reason there's nothing wrong with missing data.

There's a huge story yet to be told when data goes missing off a profile. I mean, what could possibly be wrong with that? We won't know for a couple of years. But the zero positives is a strong clue.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-rossi-and-mcquaid-hold-worlds-press-conference
 
Dec 30, 2010
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I posted a poll after the TDF that captured the sentiment of cyclingnews forumgoers. About 2/3 of the respondents said that they believe that cycling never had a doping problem, or that the problem is getting (more than just temporarily) better.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14768


I find this astoundingly naive. We have the exact same corrupt regime in place today at the UCI as we had before the TDF. We also have the same conflicting interests (promote the sport/clean it up) at play as we did before.

It is clear to me that the only reason that this year's TDF was (likely) cleaner, was the new "plasticizer" test, and the more sensitive Clenbuterol test. The riders were clearly caught off guard, and hadn't enough time to adjust their doping programs. As we saw at the Vuelta, things are getting worse, not better.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Andynonomous said:
I posted a poll after the TDF that captured the sentiment of cyclingnews forumgoers. About 2/3 of the respondents said that they believe that cycling never had a doping problem, or that the problem is getting (more than just temporarily) better.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14768


I find this astoundingly naive. We have the exact same corrupt regime in place today at the UCI as we had before the TDF. We also have the same conflicting interests (promote the sport/clean it up) at play as we did before.

It is clear to me that the only reason that this year's TDF was (likely) cleaner, was the new "plasticizer" test, and the more sensitive Clenbuterol test. The riders were clearly caught off guard, and hadn't enough time to adjust their doping programs. As we saw at the Vuelta, things are getting worse, not better.
what happened at the Vuelta?
 
Jul 14, 2009
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powerste said:
Take investigative power away from the national feds = one step forward
Put it under the aegis of the UCI = a million steps back

Take the entire non-pro status out of it= 10 steps forward

Have pro cyclists and cycling become professional under one company and say if you have any of these list of substances in your system while working for the company you are fired. Still get the union stuff like other major sports but it would still be far better than current situations like Spain or Kazakhstan where the fed is afraid to punish it's start athletes.

Thank god other pro sports don't go back 10-15 years every time a doping or rules violation comes up. Love to see the NHL send guys back to Canada or Russia to be punished for infractions they committed while doing there job. Whoever they played for before they were a "real pro". NFL sending players back to college tribunals to get wacked. Basketball would be the best because some players go from HS to the pros so there is sometimes no federation, so they would need to get in trouble from their old high school coach or their mom for a doping violation.
The UCI not handling the housekeeping is what makes everything such a mess to begin with, McQuaid and his other chumps profiting all the time from the complete chaos way it's regulated currently. The bucks don't only stop at McQuaid's desk there are dozens of other ways to get yourself off the hook.

The UCI deferring things to other feds,WADA, Court for Sport and who knows who else will keep cycling unprofessional for many years to come. No other pro sport is looking to get advice from the UCI but they should surely be looking to get advise from other profitable pro sports.
 
Andynonomous said:
I posted a poll after the TDF that captured the sentiment of cyclingnews forumgoers. About 2/3 of the respondents said that they believe that cycling never had a doping problem, or that the problem is getting (more than just temporarily) better.

I find this astoundingly naive. ........

Many thanks for arranging the poll. Sadly your findings and conclusion make a very serious statement about the sport, the supporters and the more importantly the quality of the media that drive both. The "naivety" is driven by the media who are probably more faithful, if unwittingly so, disciples of the Omerta than the riders.
 
Freddythefrog said:
Many thanks for arranging the poll. Sadly your findings and conclusion make a very serious statement about the sport, the supporters and the more importantly the quality of the media that drive both. The "naivety" is driven by the media who are probably more faithful, if unwittingly so, disciples of the Omerta than the riders.

Which is exactly how the UCI and the media like it.

Absolutely nothing has been learnt from the Armstrong years by either the media or the UCI. The UCI lies to the fans that the sport is clean, the media repeats it as gospel truth and most fans accept it unquestioningly.

It's pretty clear that neither the UCI nor the media gives a **** about the sport cleaning up. What they care about is making sure that the money comes in, that the advertisers are kept happy and no one asks any difficult questions.

Just like the media never asked any questions about Armstrong's rise, or the sudden success of German riders in the 2000s, or the rise and rise of Spanish cycling you won't see anyone asking questions about the GDR like success of UK cycling, nor will you see anyone asking any questions of the next nation that 'discovers' a golden generation.
 
fatandfast said:
Have pro cyclists and cycling become professional under one company and say if you have any of these list of substances in your system while working for the company you are fired. Still get the union stuff like other major sports but it would still be far better than current situations like Spain or Kazakhstan where the fed is afraid to punish it's start athletes.
You've got it wrong. The incentive to cover up a positive is still present and still completely obfuscated. There's no incentive to behave in a transparent manner.

I believe the interview mentions 60% of the Vuelta rider testing was for EPO. I think we can all agree the doped riders have moved on. Testing with a guarantee that the only positive will be the very dumbest doper. Certainly not a GC contender.

Hopefully today's dope won't kill riders these days like the dopers did in the 80's and 90's.
 
Nov 20, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Isn't there quite strong evidence linking HGH use to cancer? If HGH is one of the drugs of choice then it looks like the oncologists (and dentists) will be busy in future years
IIRC, for a number of years there has been anecdotal evidence of riders having facial and podiatry surgery done due to the side effects of HGH abuse.
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
Isn't there quite strong evidence linking HGH use to cancer? If HGH is one of the drugs of choice then it looks like the oncologists (and dentists) will be busy in future years

It's not the under-23's killed-dead in the late 80's EPO experimenting though. There will be lots of indifference because people are okay with it. At this rate it will be another 10 years before people figure out how doped this era was.
 
DirtyWorks said:
It's not the under-23's killed-dead in the late 80's EPO experimenting though. There will be lots of indifference because people are okay with it. At this rate it will be another 10 years before people figure out how doped this era was.

I don't think we need to wait 10 years to know that the current peloton is dirty and the UCI is still corrupt.

I don't even think deaths will cause there to be any changes either. Those in charge and the media will always sweep the doping issue and its role in the deaths of athlete under the carpet.

It's not just cycling but look at other sports - athletics, NFL, football, rugby, the deaths are building up but no one dares mention the 'd' word.

Even in something like wrestling - not even the Benoit murder-suicide was able to cause any shift in the culture there.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
It's not the under-23's killed-dead in the late 80's EPO experimenting though. There will be lots of indifference because people are okay with it. At this rate it will be another 10 years before people figure out how doped this era was.

Can't argue with that...

I have few dellusions that cycling CAN be cleaned up, it's now (almost) become the accepted norm that "of course they're all doing it". Unless you have your head in the sand - or squarely up your pooper...

Between major organizers, self-interested federations, and an international governing body that all want no scandals to taint their sphere of operations, I think we may be doomed.

I might be slightly more understanding of it if I hadn't seen so much youg, clean talent shoved to the wayside. That's the shame of it - honest talent missing out on their chance...
 
May 26, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Can't argue with that...

I have few dellusions that cycling CAN be cleaned up, it's now (almost) become the accepted norm that "of course they're all doing it". Unless you have your head in the sand - or squarely up your pooper...

Between major organizers, self-interested federations, and an international governing body that all want no scandals to taint their sphere of operations, I think we may be doomed.

I might be slightly more understanding of it if I hadn't seen so much youg, clean talent shoved to the wayside. That's the shame of it - honest talent missing out on their chance...

I agree and it is amazing how many people in the clinic know this but still insist on seeing actual evidence of doping to say whether winners are doping or not.

It is amazing that some guys think the sport is mostly clean. Take the Sky(clean team?) train at the worlds, rode the whole race on the front at a hight tempo so no one could get away and those who did were not staying away and came back. Remind you of USPS/Disc train of the 00's anyone?
 
Dec 21, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Isn't there quite strong evidence linking HGH use to cancer? If HGH is one of the drugs of choice then it looks like the oncologists (and dentists) will be busy in future years

If there is (and I don't really doubt it), then the number of cyclists will not even be a blip in the statistician's spreadsheet.

So many people are being duped into buying HGH over the internet as a "enternal youth" pill, beauty supplement, etc, the cancer count will skyrocket in the coming years, and the cases involving cyclists, athletes and other pro-sports participants will be nothing in comparison.

Flo-Jo was probably the highest profile victim of HGH thus far that I am aware of - going from a fading star who ran 3rd in LA 1984, to a world record holder in less than three years. Of course it was credited to her stunning performance of 3000 sit-ups/day, if you listen carefully to what she said.

Sit-ups have become a health hazard, they caused massive podiatric and dental problems, not to mention the over-muscling and surface venous development that Flo-Jo experienced in 1985/86.......:rolleyes:

Oh, maybe a "sit-up" is the term for an IU* of HGH....

*International Unit.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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MacQuack:
The UCI President has also warned riders against using micro-dosing techniques, insisting they will eventually be caught.

Translation:
Don't worry folks, micro is still safe, we'll let you know once we change the green status ("eventually") to the red ("certainly").
 
GreasyMonkey said:
If there is (and I don't really doubt it), then the number of cyclists will not even be a blip in the statistician's spreadsheet.

So many people are being duped into buying HGH over the internet as a "enternal youth" pill, beauty supplement, etc, the cancer count will skyrocket in the coming years, and the cases involving cyclists, athletes and other pro-sports participants will be nothing in comparison.

Flo-Jo was probably the highest profile victim of HGH thus far that I am aware of - going from a fading star who ran 3rd in LA 1984, to a world record holder in less than three years. Of course it was credited to her stunning performance of 3000 sit-ups/day, if you listen carefully to what she said.

Sit-ups have become a health hazard, they caused massive podiatric and dental problems, not to mention the over-muscling and surface venous development that Flo-Jo experienced in 1985/86.......:rolleyes:

Oh, maybe a "sit-up" is the term for an IU* of HGH....

*International Unit.

I agree entirely, and of course the apologists will continue to make excuses for the fact that the average age of a sportsman is considerably less than that for a non-sportsman. (Isn't life expectancy in the NFL in the 50s?)

The one that makes me laugh is when people claim that riding a GT 'naturally' takes a year off your life as a way of explaining why riders keep on dying.
 
GreasyMonkey said:
If there is (and I don't really doubt it), then the number of cyclists will not even be a blip in the statistician's spreadsheet.

So many people are being duped into buying HGH over the internet as a "enternal youth" pill, beauty supplement, etc, the cancer count will skyrocket in the coming years, and the cases involving cyclists, athletes and other pro-sports participants will be nothing in comparison.

Any attempts to associate it with doping will use the defense tobacco companies used to claim their product didn't cause cancer. It goes something like, "how do you know for sure? Have you established a causal link?" And the cycling media will mostly parrot that line. The american publication Velonews is guilty of this many times over.

As it is, I can't believe Pat can get away with publicly confirming missing passport data and less testing. I accept that cyclingnews can't break the doping story. This is material ripe for another richly deserving mainstream media story. If they started now, they can have the story ready to print in 2012.
 
I think the Flo-Jo/Marion Jones point is very relevant because it shows how little the media learns.

You'd have thought that after Flo-Jo that when a 'super-athlete' comes onto the track that there should be some scepticism. But no, we had exactly the same fawning over Jones, Montgomery, Gatlin etc etc all of whom were shown to be nothing without the drugs. And so it goes on, you won't hear questions being raised of any athletes (unless they are Chinese or Russian) at next years olympics. The media will fall into line, sell the public the usual BS and then no doubt a few years later we'll be back where we started from.

The same goes for any sport.

You'd have thought after Festina, Pantani, Gewiss, Mapei, Puerto, Telekom, Armstrong, USP, Astana (mk 1), landis and Phonak etc that the media would start to mature and be a little more reflective about the performances of riders - but no. It's the same old same old from the cycling media, fawning hagiography of riders, DSs, etc. We're asked to believe that guys who've done nothing previously in their career can suddenly become ultra climbers and TTers, and that this is all down to 'marginal gains' and finding out that you've got an illness caught from freshwater snails.

Not one cycling media outlet has once dared to question the likes of T-Mobile/Hct, Garmin, Phonak/BMC, CSC/Saxo, Leopard, USP/Disco/RS.

Not once has there been an article in CN that has dared to be critical of the UCI under McQuaid, not once have they dared to ask even the most basic questions about his management of cycling.

Instead we get sycophancy and fawning. Re-printing the last UCI or team press release is what passes for journalism, and of course the occasional obsequious 'in-depth' interview.

Less journalism, more propaganda outlet.

All of which helps to up hold omerta and make sure that no one rocks the boat.

Then those self same hacks will start wringing their hands when the **** hits the fan, completely denying their role in maintaining omerta and the lies that teams, riders and the authorities have put out over the years.

Not only is the hypocrisy of the hacks galling, the fact that they start wallowing in self-pity about how terrible it is that they are coming in for criticism for their failures, when the reality is that these ****ers deserve all the abuse that they get.

When/if Armstrong goes down is CN going to apologise to its readers for having lied to us for all these years?
 
Mrs John Murphy said:
Not once has there been an article in CN that has dared to be critical of the UCI under McQuaid, not once have they dared to ask even the most basic questions about his management of cycling.

When/if Armstrong goes down is CN going to apologise to its readers for having lied to us for all these years?

You need to be fair to cyclingnews. They can't drop the hammer on Pat. The industry aligned with Pat will stop advertising. That's true with any niche media.
They very fairly cover Pat's shenanigans. Velonews does not. Velonews might as well be called McQuaid/Tailwind News. (I'm obviously in the U.S.)