Mediocrity Era!

[ChrisE]

I`ve a vauge recollection of it being an interview..his reply when asked about retirement being along the lines that inferred early 30`s.
Cant be more specific cus it`s just a vauge memory...like a lot of memories can be. However it was consistant with the majority of pro riders answer to that question.
The question of retirement is an individual thing. Some, like Bernard Hinault, state when and were long in advance.
Others, perhaps most, wake up one day or finish a race and realise they just dont want to do it any longer.
Peeps can read to much into it.

I view Indurain as "reluctant" doper. Maybe his quiet demeanor has influenced my opinion. Maybe that is why I give credence to the possibility that he just said screw it after 96. I dunno....I have sympathy towards him for some reason. He dodges questions about doping, but IMO that is a muich more respectful and humble way than obviously somebody like LA.

Remember, LA and Indurain are or were buds. Omerta and acceptance of doping is/was rampant. It's too easy to gloss over the participants by analyzing their publice demeanor but we are human.

There was a long discussion in a thread, perhaps before you really got into the board, about the last clean GT performances. Clean I mean "mostly" clean. It's hard to believe Indurain wasn't on something in 91 but there is no denying he was a tremendous talent. I could not stand the boring way he raced but there is no denying his talent IMO. I would like to think he wished everybody was clean when he rode.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I view Indurain as "reluctant" doper. Maybe his quiet demeanor has influenced my opinion. Maybe that is why I give credence to the possibility that he just said screw it after 96. I dunno....I have sympathy towards him for some reason. He dodges questions about doping, but IMO that is a muich more respectful and humble way than obviously somebody like LA.

Remember, LA and Indurain are or were buds. Omerta and acceptance of doping is/was rampant. It's too easy to gloss over the participants by analyzing their publice demeanor but we are human.

It's hard to believe Indurain wasn't on something in 91 but there is no denying he was a tremendous talent. I could not stand the boring way he raced but there is no denying his talent IMO. I would like to think he wished everybody was clean when he rode.

In the pro peleton its very hard to identify genuine friendships but of course they do exist.
LA @ Endurin publicly may put on a "friendship" but out of sight I woundnt bet my last Bob on it,,,as we say over the water.
Ya hit the nail on the head...the dislike for Lance is not so much for doping as it is for the total lack of humility and Iron like grip he put on the TDF.
His direspect for both the peloton with his contemtous sneers and the fans , who long ago accepted the nature of pro biking might little help along the way.."Le Bomba"..stimulents but knew the differance between that and puting the "turbo charger" in your vains that is EPO.
Course he wasnt alone in this...but without him as the central player it might not have have happened.
The pupet or the servant may well be one line of defence Gonden Nugget might go down. Somehow I doupt it.

Bernard Hinault was once asked what distinguished the real greats from the rest. His reply was Humility.

 

[ChrisE]

Indurain famously made a trip and trained with LA in Austin, where LA "learned" the high cadence technique that enabled him to win all those tours. They are more than acquantences I think.

 

[TexPat]

I view Indurain as "reluctant" doper. Maybe his quiet demeanor has influenced my opinion. Maybe that is why I give credence to the possibility that he just said screw it after 96. I dunno....I have sympathy towards him for some reason. He dodges questions about doping, but IMO that is a muich more respectful and humble way than obviously somebody like LA.

Remember, LA and Indurain are or were buds. Omerta and acceptance of doping is/was rampant. It's too easy to gloss over the participants by analyzing their publice demeanor but we are human.

There was a long discussion in a thread, perhaps before you really got into the board, about the last clean GT performances. Clean I mean "mostly" clean. It's hard to believe Indurain wasn't on something in 91 but there is no denying he was a tremendous talent. I could not stand the boring way he raced but there is no denying his talent IMO. I would like to think he wished everybody was clean when he rode.

Indurain doesn't speak english; and LA doesn't speak spanish, so I doubt there is much depth there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Indurain famously made a trip and trained with LA in Austin, where LA "learned" the high cadence technique that enabled him to win all those tours. They are more than acquantences I think.

Yes and no.

Indurain was in Austin - but he was over for the 'Ride of the Roses' which is what kickstarted funding back in 1997, IIRC Merckx and Kelly were in attendance too. I don't believe it goes beyond that.
Although they me 'friends' on Facebook.....



I hate Facebook

 

[Señor_Contador]

Methinks Indurain's friendship with Lance was a temporary man crush. I mean, Lance always spoke of the Spaniard from a fan perspective, amazed at what Miguel was able to accomplish when he was # 1.

Later on, back in 98 or 99, when Lance was training in the Pyrenees, getting ready for the TdF, he happened to meet Miguel in one of the hotels there, and the Spaniard was the only one who didn't laugh when told, by LA himself, that he was getting ready to win the TdF. I mean... at the time, the Texan was getting laughed at left and right by all the European media outlets who put a microphone in front of his face, so I presume LA took Miguel's reserved attitude as a sign of respect, which the Texan reciprocated.

Back in 1999, when NO ONE seriously thought that Lance had a chance, Miguel was one of the few people on the face of the planet to name Armstrong as one of the favorites to win the overall. Somehow Miguel "saw" something in him... perhaps the fact that the beloved patriot was working with the same "doctors" as the Spaniard had had something to do with it. Who knows.

I sincerely doubt Miguel was somehow involved in Lance's surprising comeback, but I would bet my left nut Indurain was the one that referred the Texan to Dr. Ferrari.

I also don't think there's a friendship there. Indurain, when invited, shows up anywhere. All you have to do is get him and his friends first class seats on plane and enough wine and chuletones for an entire brigade and he just shows up.

 

[Señor_Contador]

And as far as the controversy surrounding Miguel's retirement... IMO he was gettin top dollar when riding for Banesto. When he lost the 96 TdF he was looking for a team because he felt he had 2-3 top shape TdFs left in his legs.

He found no one willing to pay him the same amount of money he was getting at Banesto. And his whole attitude, during those critical post 96 Vuelta weeks, was like "I ain't going to put all that $hit in my veins and body and haul my ass up all those mountains in France in July for half the pay. Fvck y'all".

I also think Riis' win signaled an increase in PED and EPO consumption that Indurain was not willing to endure. I remember reports from TVE (Televisión Española) about some hotels complaining about teams leaving the needles in the syringes and hotel workers getting poked and medical stuff just left in the rooms, steroid bottles left behind. The kind of crap you did not see until Riis and Ulrich showed up.

The Spaniard knew fulll well that Riis did not stand a chance unless he was riding in the 50s... and history showed he was actually in the 60s (he was known as Mr. 60%) so when you have riders risking their lives to win at Hautacam... you kinda have to call it a day.

And I think he made the best decision in recent cycling history.

The only problem is that a lot of Spanish teenagers were watching the TdF at the time and decided to pick up the bicycle... All because of Miguelón.

 

[Escarabajo]

Thanks Señor Contador. Nice summaries. The stories make sense.

Do you have the link about the interview when they ask him about the drug use? I'd like to watch it. If that was his answer is like a confession to me.

 

[ChrisE]

Yes and no.

Indurain was in Austin - but he was over for the 'Ride of the Roses' which is what kickstarted funding back in 1997, IIRC Merckx and Kelly were in attendance too. I don't believe it goes beyond that.
Although they me 'friends' on Facebook.....



I hate Facebook

Ahhh, we have common ground.

Hate is not a strong enough word to describe how I feel about facebook.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ahhh, we have common ground.

Hate is not a strong enough word to describe how I feel about facebook.

+1 although I'm not sure whether I hate it more than Twitter yet. I see them as a logical progression beyond texting to allow people to have contact with others without giving up any control of level of contact. Kind of like forums.
To me it seems like every new social contact invention is geared towards making less and less interpersonal contact with tremendously greater numbers of people.
Like...."I have 9783 friends on Facebook"......."Oh that's cool, what do you really know about the dreams or fears of any of them"........"Oh I'm not really into that"........."Ok, if you fell off your bike tomorrow and broke both your arms, how many of your 'friends' would come over and help you use the bathroom?"

 

[buckwheat]

I sincerely doubt Miguel was somehow involved in Lance's surprising comeback, but I would bet my left nut Indurain was the one that referred the Texan to Dr. Ferrari.

I'd hate to see you lose a nut, but I thought that was Eddy who made the introduction?

 

[hrotha]

+1 although I'm not sure whether I hate it more than Twitter yet. I see them as a logical progression beyond texting to allow people to have contact with others without giving up any control of level of contact. Kind of like forums.
To me it seems like every new social contact invention is geared towards making less and less interpersonal contact with tremendously greater numbers of people.
Like...."I have 9783 friends on Facebook"......."Oh that's cool, what do you really know about the dreams or fears of any of them"........"Oh I'm not really into that"........."Ok, if you fell off your bike tomorrow and broke both your arms, how many of your 'friends' would come over and help you use the bathroom?"

This is very off-topic, but: in my experience, if you're not 14 and therefore dumb, Facebook and the like are great ways to make even more interpersonal contact with people you can rightly call your friends. It's not a substitute for other ways of communication, it's just a great tool to keep constant contact, especially at times when you can't see them for whatever reason (like being separated by a big ocean or something). It's simply a matter of not judging something by the use shallow teenagers make of it.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Thanks Señor Contador. Nice summaries. The stories make sense.

Do you have the link about the interview when they ask him about the drug use? I'd like to watch it. If that was his answer is like a confession to me.

It's an interview done back in 96-97. The internet was in its early stages. I sincerely doubt there's anything out there. You can ask Spaniards and they may be able to get you something.

 

[Señor_Contador]

I'd hate to see you lose a nut, but I thought that was Eddy who made the introduction?

No, you may be right. Nonetheless I think Indurain was instrumental in the Lance Armstrong Show creation... In the sense that the Spaniard was the one who told Lance (to get to # 1 in the TdF) "This is how I won the TdF 5 times, and if you want to win it, this is what you have to do, this is how you have to do it and these are the individuals who are going to help you get there".

I think Mr. Merckx's was just an intermediary.

Am I making any sense?