Member Suspension Appreciation/Depreciation Thread

[nhowson]

This is exactly how I feel and what I observe. Disagree with the long termers and you are branded either a troll, a sockpuppet, or a newbie idiot. A new poster it seems cant have a contrasting opinion.

This seems especially so if you are a Brit or a Sky fan. There seem to be plenty of Contador / Nibali / other fans on here - do they get the vitriol that the Sky fans get? It seems not. And its one of the reasons I dropped off over December. It seems with good reason - since I have come back I have repeatedly been accused of sockpuppeting and hacking, despite a mod telling people not to.

I hear the term 'Clinic 12' - well soon, it seems, that will be the totality of the membership.

I'm new and a Brit/Sky fan, I've just been courteous. I don't even get **** from Hog or thesceptic, to name a few. I'm not going to lie and say that it's a completely level playing field, but one simply has to be calm and generally they shut up and listen.

 

[sniper]

good posts, hog/hitch.

the 'there's no evidence'-line is comical at best, considering we're on a forum to discuss the doping angle of cycling.

I can fully understand some posters asking for more detail and not accepting the simplistic "Sky dope, period" line.
But ironically, when bobbins comes in and provides salient details about TUEs and missed ooc tests, the same posters are not amused.

 

[King Boonen]

The real problem is the clinic regulars have answered every question a new user could ask about Sky, to the point where asking them if you are not a new user is basically trolling. With people coming back as sockpuppets it means the regulars are probably expecting anyone asking these same questions to be someone returning just to stir the pot. The answers end up sounding rude because people are tired of typing out the same thing, the new user jumps to the defence of XYZ with the same old tired arguments that have been circling the drain for the past few years and the same conversations and arguments repeat.

 

[pmcg76]

And of course the posts by Hog, Hitch and sniper prove my point.

Where oh where did I mention anything about SKY fans, yet that is the automatic assumption that I was inferring. Completely wrong. It is like people cannot see beyond the obsession with SKY.

The biggest doping story in my view this year has been Ferrari and Astana, that has now long been forgotten in the headlong rush to disect, over-analyse, twist and mis-represent the latest meaningless uttering from SKY, Froome, Wiggins, Bralisford and Porte.

 

[TailWindHome]

But ironically, when bobbins comes in and provides salient details about TUEs and missed ooc tests, the same posters are not amused.

You're being disingenous there Sniper.

 

[sniper]

You're being disingenous there Sniper.

you think so?
bobbins provides details that help understand how Sky dope, yet you and some others suggest we dismiss it unless he names names, instead of being pleased with having more knowledge now than you had before.

 

[King Boonen]

This seems especially so if you are a Brit or a Sky fan. There seem to be plenty of Contador / Nibali / other fans on here - do they get the vitriol that the Sky fans get?

No, they don't.

The reasons are that Fantadors and Nibalites don't go in the clinic and argue that they are clean, Bertie and Nibs don't ride for a team who try and make out they are superior to every other team (Crazy Oleg apart obviously) while coming out with nonsense excuses etc. but the main reason is very easy to find out. Go in the clinic, dig up the Nibali thread and accuse him of doping. See how many people argue it with you. Then go and look in one of the multitude of Sky threads and see how many posters are arguing they are clean.


The clinic is there to discuss both the actual, factual news about doping as it is reported and to speculate on things that are not known. This is a discussion forum so it's very easy to which is going to be more prevalent.

I can read about doping new and facts on the front page of Cyclingnews, which will include interviews and references, but will only discuss things that are known. If I want to read speculation and the reasoned arguments behind it, I go to the clinic. Unsurprisingly, a lot of this speculation is about the team that have taken two riders who never looked like winning a GT (I still think Wiggins had it in him and showed some promise before) to winning the biggest race in cycling.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The biggest doping story in my view this year has been Ferrari and Astana, that has now long been forgotten in the headlong rush to disect, over-analyse, twist and mis-represent the latest meaningless uttering from SKY, Froome, Wiggins, Bralisford and Porte.

And if our memories could only work for the last 12 months Astana would be the focus of discussion, no doubt.

For me, Sky are uncaught but more damning in their impact on the results of cycling since 2012 than anything Astana have done, despite the tests. Doms are useless in terms of being caught and having an impact.

So we're left (in my admittedly short memory) with the performance of Sky vs Astana in the past few years, and they kicked Astana to the curb.

 

[Benotti69]

And of course the posts by Hog, Hitch and sniper prove my point.

Where oh where did I mention anything about SKY fans, yet that is the automatic assumption that I was inferring. Completely wrong. It is like people cannot see beyond the obsession with SKY.

The biggest doping story in my view this year has been Ferrari and Astana, that has now long been forgotten in the headlong rush to disect, over-analyse, twist and mis-represent the latest meaningless uttering from SKY, Froome, Wiggins, Bralisford and Porte.

Yeah and they only won the '14 TdF due to Contador and Froome's exits! So the real story is that Ferrari and Astana were caught and they are not even the strongest team out there!!!!

 

[King Boonen]

Yeah and they only won the '14 TdF due to Contador and Froome's exits! So the real story is that Ferrari and Astana were caught and they are not even the strongest team out there!!!!

Complete assumption. Nibali was the best rider in that race when both of those idiots crashed out

 

[Benotti69]

Complete assumption. Nibali was the best rider in that race when both of those idiots crashed out

It is an assumption, but Nibali did nothing all season till July unlike Froome who showed form. Contador showed how strong he was in Spain, Nibali never matched Contador over 3 weeks never mind looked likely to ever beat him.

 

[King Boonen]

It is an assumption, but Nibali did nothing all season till July unlike Froome who showed form. Contador showed how strong he was in Spain, Nibali never matched Contador over 3 weeks never mind looked likely to ever beat him.

Not listening! Nibali is the best!

(I'll disappear when he gets smashed into fourth in July...).

 

[Benotti69]

Not listening! Nibali is the best!

(I'll disappear when he gets smashed into fourth in July...).

It appears either Ferrari has lost his magic or Nibs 'crazy adaptive physiology' aint as good as others......

 

[ebandit]

seek

to question 'evidence' is not saying team sky are clean................

but a step towards finding the truth

Mark L

 

[Parker]

No, they don't.

The reasons are that Fantadors and Nibalites don't go in the clinic and argue that they are clean, Bertie and Nibs don't ride for a team who try and make out they are superior to every other team (Crazy Oleg apart obviously) while coming out with nonsense excuses etc. but the main reason is very easy to find out. Go in the clinic, dig up the Nibali thread and accuse him of doping. See how many people argue it with you. Then go and look in one of the multitude of Sky threads and see how many posters are arguing they are clean.

But there's only one Nibali thread and one Contador. But a new Sky related one pops up almost every week. It's just simple trolling and if you can't see that then you're stupid.
The Clinic regulars are desperately pining for Armstrong. But he's not coming back, so they're trying to recreate the mid 2000s years of that scandal in the social media age.

 

[thehog]

But there's only one Nibali thread and one Contador. But a new Sky related one pops up almost every week. It's just simple trolling and if you can't see that then you're stupid.
The Clinic regulars are desperately pining for Armstrong. But he's not coming back, so they're trying to recreate the mid 2000s years of that scandal in the social media age.

A new one every week? Errrr evidence?

I've seen for Contador 3 threads, a Saxo thread x 2, one for his doctor, drug dealer and Riis. And one for Oleg.

Nibali has one for him, three on Astana and a few for the doctors involved.

 

[King Boonen]

But there's only one Nibali thread and one Contador. But a new Sky related one pops up almost every week. It's just simple trolling and if you can't see that then you're stupid.
The Clinic regulars are desperately pining for Armstrong. But he's not coming back, so they're trying to recreate the mid 2000s years of that scandal in the social media age.

I'd be extremely careful about using mis-statements and hyperbolic rubbish to insinuate that people are stupid. It tends not to end very well.

 

[thehog]

I'd be extremely careful about using mis-statements and hyperbolic rubbish to insinuate that people are stupid. It tends not to end very well.

I did like the "one for Nibali and Contador" then the comparison was not to another rider but for "Sky" as a whole team.

Excellent piece of comparative analysis by Parker

 

[sniper]

But there's only one Nibali thread and one Contador. But a new Sky related one pops up almost every week. It's just simple trolling and if you can't see that then you're stupid.
The Clinic regulars are desperately pining for Armstrong. But he's not coming back, so they're trying to recreate the mid 2000s years of that scandal in the social media age.

there's no rule that forbids anybody to open threads on non-sky-related topics.
people in the clinic are highly interested in Sky at the moment, for obvious reasons.
i don't see what's unclear or problematic about that.

 

[Parker]

I'd be extremely careful about using mis-statements and hyperbolic rubbish to insinuate that people are stupid. It tends not to end very well.

I'm not insinuating that you're stupid. I'm stating that if you can't see something then you are, in my opinion, stupid. I have no idea whether you can see that or not.

For example, if I where to say that if you are an adult who thinks that babies are delivered by storks then you are stupid. And I'd be right. I didn't say that you did believe that.

 

[thehog]

there's no rule that forbids anybody to open threads on non-sky-related topics.
people in the clinic are highly interested in Sky at the moment, for obvious reasons.
i don't see what's unclear or problematic about that.

He clearly missed the infamous "Contador's head" thread!

 

[Parker]

I did like the "one for Nibali and Contador" then the comparison was not to another rider but for "Sky" as a whole team.

Excellent piece of comparative analysis by Parker

OK comparative analysis. Threads that have been posted on in the last thirty days

Connected to Astana
Team Astana's shameful legacy

Connected to Tinkoff
Will Contador be juiced up again upon his return
Bjarne Riis, saved by silence
Kreuziger to face CAS?

Connected to Sky
The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get
Dr Steve Peters - Is he really just a confidence trickster
Wiggins a man in love
Sky/Froome talk only (no way sky are cleans?)
Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?
Wigans goes the. Cadence
Ritchie Porte - what do we know about him
Froome talk only
Dave Brailsford - cycling genius
Sky

That looks proportional.

 

[thehog]

OK comparative analysis. Threads that have been posted on in the last thirty days

Connected to Astana
Team Astana's shameful legacy

Connected to Tinkoff
Will Contador be juiced up again upon his return
Bjarne Riis, saved by silence
Kreuziger to face CAS?

Connected to Sky
The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get
Dr Steve Peters - Is he really just a confidence trickster
Wiggins a man in love
Sky/Froome talk only (no way sky are cleans?)
Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?
Wigans goes the. Cadence
Ritchie Porte - what do we know about him
Froome talk only
Dave Brailsford - cycling genius
Sky

That looks proportional.

In the last 30 days only? How did you come up with that selective date range?

Are you sure you don't have a job with the Tory party?

Wow, just wow.

 

[King Boonen]

I'm not insinuating that you're stupid. I'm stating that if you can't see something then you are, in my opinion, stupid. I have no idea whether you can see that or not.

For example, if I where to say that if you are an adult who thinks that babies are delivered by storks then you are stupid. And I'd be right. I didn't say that you did believe that.

So you're going to completely ignore that your premise is based on easily disprovable rubbish, maintain the insult that just so happens to cover anyone in the clinic that disagrees with you and then make a completely ridiculous comparison to try and fortify your position?

Well done.

 

[Parker]

So you're going to completely ignore that your premise is based on easily disprovable rubbish, maintain the insult that just so happens to cover anyone in the clinic that disagrees with you and then make a completely ridiculous comparison to try and fortify your position?

Well done.

If my premise is easily disprovable rubbish then maybe you should have started there. Try it now. The floor is yours.