Men's U23 races and talents

[WKA311]

Just too strong on stages like this... 2nd win for Ayuso and the maglia rosa!
Won more than a minute on the other GC contenders. Obviously we'll have to see how he'll do in the big mountains, but damn this guy looks impressive.

Apart from Healy, the longer climbs should suit everyone of those behind Ayuso better than the short stuff. But with Ayuso in this shape it'd need an ambush or bad luck for him.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Apart from Healy, the longer climbs should suit everyone of those behind Ayuso better than the short stuff. But with Ayuso in this shape it'd need an ambush or bad luck for him.

Yeah, he's just too strong. It's worth mentioning that he has been followed and coached by the UAE staff for over a year now, so he's pretty much already a pro.

 

[RedheadDane]

I see Tobias won the Battle of the Johannesens.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ok, according to Hellemose's Strava he did the final climb only 17 sec slower than Bettiol and 10 sec slower than Caruso on stage 4 of the Giro (yes, the stage at the Giro d'Italia was harder) and yet Ayuso put over 1min into everyone on that climb, the guy's just crazy strong!
Hellemose's ride on Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/5429084242#2836973319552834056

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok, according to Hellemose's Strava he did the final climb only 17 sec slower than Bettiol and 10 sec slower than Caruso on stage 4 of the Giro (yes, the stage at the Giro d'Italia was harder) and yet Ayuso put over 1min into everyone on that climb, the guy's just crazy strong!
Hellemose's ride on Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/5429084242#2836973319552834056

It was raining and cold during the Giro. What were the conditions today? Ayuso was great during Coppi/Bartali, but not strong enough to rival Vingegaard or Vansevenant. I don't think he'd be putting 40 seconds into Bernal on a 5k climb. So it's all rather vague.

Obviously he's insanely strong compared to his peers. I think he's more of a "next Evenepoel" than Brenner or Simmons were.

 

[Lui98]

It was raining and cold during the Giro. What were the conditions today? Ayuso was great during Coppi/Bartali, but not strong enough to rival Vingegaard or Vansevenant. I don't think he'd be putting 40 seconds into Bernal on a 5k climb. So it's all rather vague.

Obviously he's insanely strong compared to his peers. I think he's more of a "next Evenepoel" than Brenner or Simmons were.

Today it rained too

 

[Mayomaniac]

It was raining and cold during the Giro. What were the conditions today? Ayuso was great during Coppi/Bartali, but not strong enough to rival Vingegaard or Vansevenant. I don't think he'd be putting 40 seconds into Bernal on a 5k climb. So it's all rather vague.

Obviously he's insanely strong compared to his peers. I think he's more of a "next Evenepoel" than Brenner or Simmons were.

Today it was raining during the final part of the stage and we had a hard race from the start because a group of 25 with many riders who were less than 2min behind on the gc got away early on. Raccani, Baldaccini, Van Tricht, Thompson, Mifsud, Johannessen, Porta and Healy. Pena, who was 2:02 behind on the gc, was also part of the group.
The weather wasn't as nasty as it was during the Giro, but it was a hard race with many teams sending riders who weren't far behind on the gc on the attack.

About Ayuso, he's tall and rather lanky, but not super skinny, 183cm tall and 65kg heavy.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Looking back at the u23 Peace Race, that was a good showing by Mathias Vacek, who finished 6th on the gc as a first year u23 rider.
Valentin Paret-Peintre is one of the skinniest looking cyclists that I've ever seen, apparently he's 176cm tall and only 52kg.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Today it was raining during the final part of the stage and we had a hard race from the start because a group of 25 with many riders who were less than 2min behind on the gc got away early on. Raccani, Baldaccini, Van Tricht, Thompson, Mifsud, Johannessen, Porta and Healy. Pena, who was 2:02 behind on the gc, was also part of the group.
The weather wasn't as nasty as it was during the Giro, but it was a hard race with many teams sending riders who weren't far behind on the gc on the attack.

About Ayuso, he's tall and rather lanky, but not super skinny, 183cm tall and 65kg heavy.

That's quite skinny for his height though. Not anorexic, but skinny nontheless. Kelderman is 185 and 65k. Pogacar is 176 and 66kg supposedly. Vlasov 186 for 68kg.

 

[Walter1234]

Giro u23; when you register you can re-watch the finals here;

Giro d'Italia Giovani Under 23 - RaiPlay

I migliori giovani ciclisti del panorama italiano e internazionale si affrontano sulle strade dello stivale

www.raiplay.it

There is no live broadcast.

 

[hayneplane]

Curious to know how those with more in depth knowledge of the age group ranks would judge Ponomar to be. Insane effort to finish the Giro at 18 and be top 70 on GC as well as highly prominent in at least 5 breakaways.

How does he compare to the baby Giro contenders I.e. could he have got a podium finish in this race had he targeted it.

Will make an interesting case study in whether riding at the very highest level like this is the best thing for a riders longer term development or if it stunts their potential.

 

[Samamba]

Giro u23; when you register you can re-watch the finals here;

Giro d'Italia Giovani Under 23 - RaiPlay

I migliori giovani ciclisti del panorama italiano e internazionale si affrontano sulle strade dello stivale

www.raiplay.it

There is no live broadcast.

Only in Italy or with an Italian VPN right (and I dont know any free ones)?

EDIT: NVM, this works, thanks.

Looks like Hellemose rode a really fast climb catching up to the Vandenabeele group. He wasnt in the big group just before the top of the 2nd to last climb. Same for Verre and guys like Van Eetvelt. Think they missed an important split that happened in an earlier descent.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Curious to know how those with more in depth knowledge of the age group ranks would judge Ponomar to be. Insane effort to finish the Giro at 18 and be top 70 on GC as well as highly prominent in at least 5 breakaways.

How does he compare to the baby Giro contenders I.e. could he have got a podium finish in this race had he targeted it.

Will make an interesting case study in whether riding at the very highest level like this is the best thing for a riders longer term development or if it stunts their potential.

We can only compare what we 've seen in relation to others we've seen. The idea i had, was that he was "one of the most talented riders of his year". But not the most talented of all, and certainly not "by far". If i were to name 5 riders of 2002, he'd probably be among them. I don't think he'd automatically podiumed in the baby Giro this year, but not impossible. He's got a good TT, and he's a good climber, and aside from Ayuso, there is no out and out favorite for pink imho. But still, hard to say, there are guys a couple of years older present.

That said, i don't follow the youths that closely either and there are certainly others better places to give an opinion. I try to keep an eye on these kids when they hit the juniors, before that, i'm basically clueless. Last 2 seasons have been difficult to assess with most junior/espoir races cancelled. On top of that, i don't overly care about sprinters or punchers.

 

[SafeBet]

Only in Italy or with an Italian VPN right (and I dont know any free ones)?

EDIT: NVM, this works, thanks.

Looks like Hellemose rode a really fast climb catching up to the Vandenabeele group. He wasnt in the big group just before the top of the 2nd to last climb. Same for Verre and guys like Van Eetvelt. Think they missed an important split that happened in an earlier descent.

Wasn't Verre the Colpack rider pacing Ayuso during the second to last climb?

 

[Walter1234]

Only in Italy or with an Italian VPN right (and I dont know any free ones)?

EDIT: NVM, this works, thanks.

...

The live broadcast of the days race is only from Italy. But you can watch it later from anywhere (you wonder what rules they apply)....

 

[Mayomaniac]

Wasn't Verre the Colpack rider pacing Ayuso during the second to last climb?

Accrding to Ayuso himself it was Gazzoli.
Source: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article...giro-italia-u23-2021-tappa-5-intervista-ayuso
Verre has looked really good on the climbs so far. He has always been more of a specialist for the hilly one day races and short MTTs on 5-6% climbs in the junior ranks, so I don't expect him to be as good on the longer climbs, but you never know.

 

[WKA311]

Ok, according to Hellemose's Strava he did the final climb only 17 sec slower than Bettiol and 10 sec slower than Caruso on stage 4 of the Giro (yes, the stage at the Giro d'Italia was harder) and yet Ayuso put over 1min into everyone on that climb, the guy's just crazy strong!
Hellemose's ride on Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/5429084242#2836973319552834056

Those numbers are a bit skewed. Hellemose started the climb behind Ayuso and the other Top finishers, because he missed the split before and had to chase in the descent and in the final climb. He said he did the 2nd fastest ascent behind Ayuso though. Could only manage to get to the group behind Healy/Johannessen and never actually saw Ayuso in the final climb. So, not sure by how much Ayuso was faster than Hellemose on the final climb, but it wasn't as much as the result is implying.

 

[Lequack]

Juan Ayuso is so popular he now has his own thread. Crazy right? (admittedly I made it)

Juan Ayuso discussion thread

In the words of Roglic: "Why not, eh?" So I made this thread. https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/juan-ayuso-pesquera Just 18 years of age, he is having quite a year, especially at the baby Giro at the moment. And of course he already got picked up by UAE, officially from August 1st...

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Mayomaniac]

Those numbers are a bit skewed. Hellemose started the climb behind Ayuso and the other Top finishers, because he missed the split before and had to chase in the descent and in the final climb. He said he did the 2nd fastest ascent behind Ayuso though. Could only manage to get to the group behind Healy/Johannessen and never actually saw Ayuso in the final climb. So, not sure by how much Ayuso was faster than Hellemose on the final climb, but it wasn't as much as the result is implying.

Looks like Ayuso was indeed faster than the pros at the Giro:

Yes the stage was a bit easier, but the race was on before the final climb. It was also raining, but it wasn't as cold as it was during the Giro stage (yesterday it was around 14°C).
Still, a super impressive performance by Ayuso.

 

[Samamba]

The live broadcast of the days race is only from Italy. But you can watch it later from anywhere (you wonder what rules they apply)....

Oh didn't even know there was a live broadcast? Are you sure about that? Cause i might wanna go thru the throuble to find a VPN for that.

 

[Walter1234]

Oh didn't even know there was a live broadcast? Are you sure about that? Cause i might wanna go thru the throuble to find a VPN for that.

I meant live broadcast of the replay/highlights If you are still following ;-).
Somewhere between 17h30 and 20h00 Rai sport broadcasts a program dedicated to that days Giro u23 ride. At that moment only visible from Italy. But later (no idea when) you can review it from anywhere - after registering , the live broadcast* is registry free.

*of the highlights....

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Looks like Ayuso was indeed faster than the pros at the Giro:

Yes the stage was a bit easier, but the race was on before the final climb. It was also raining, but it wasn't as cold as it was during the Giro stage (yesterday it was around 14°C).
Still, a super impressive performance by Ayuso.

He was 50s faster than the next guy, and he's a 1st year U23, so it's impressive in any case. Just not sure we should factor in the pro results here as the conditions were completely different. By that standard, Healy & co were only 20s slower than Caruso, 2nd in the Giro. And Foss should just retire already.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Today Alois Charrin won the stage with a late attack with less than 1km to go from a group of 23 riders after the Selvino descent.
Today they didn't let the breakaway go, the first 2 hours were raced at an average speed of 51.1km to go, only afterwards a group of 13 riders got away, but they were caught at the start of the final climb.
Hellemose attacked and went over the top of the climb with a gap of 20sec, but he got caught again on the technical descent, it was also raining once again.
With 3km to go Milesi, Mifsud and a Laboral Kutxa rider (either Iribar or Berasategi) tried to attack, but they got caught again. It looked like it would come down to a sprint, but then Charrin made his winning move, T H Johannessen finished 2nd, Baroncini 3rd.
Source: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/live/20...-u23-2021-diretta-6-tappa-live-san-pellegrino
Stage results: https://firstcycling.com/race.php?r=226&y=2021&e=06
No idea what happened to Pira, he finished the stage 2:31 behind, but according to Strava he did the climb at the same speed as the bunch behind Hellemose, so he either crashed on the descent or just lost contact on a technical descent in the rain, probably the later.

The stage (not geoblocked, but you have to register on the Raiplay website): https://www.raiplay.it/video/2021/0...021-14733754-af38-4e5e-90b5-34a73ef5ef3e.html

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Tomorrow D-day?

 

[Samamba]

Just watched the last 30kms of todays stage, some serious motorpacing going on there in the last km. Seriously, strong attack from that Charrin guy but he got gifted a stage by the guy riding that motorbike.