Men's U23 races and talents

[Axel Hangleck]

Any news on if Boichis will stay with Bora or will focus purely on MTB in the future?

He's won the European XCO title, beating Albert Philipsen......

 

[AvA8]

He's won the European XCO title, beating Albert Philipsen......

Thats good but that doesnt say anything regarding his road future sadly :/

 

[ingsve]

I hadn't seen until now that they changed the Route for Tour de l'Avenir. They have shortened stage 6 so now it is only 42 KM starting with the HC climb so essentially they removed the easy part in the beginning. So still the HC climb and cat 1 climb and then a short uphill at goal. Then after this they added a 6b stage which is a 10 km mountain ITT at around 9%.

I don't think Nordhagen could get a better route to suite him. Is there any other of the top U-23 riders that benefit from another mountain time trial? I suppose Widar is likely not unhappy either.

 

[Samamba]

I suppose Widar is likely not unhappy either.

Widar doesn't like MTT or short stages in general (he says). Not enough fatigue. Honestly Nordhagen also prefers more fatigue, but it's enough high mountain/long climbs for him and it's at the end of the week so he should be fine. Strongest will win this, if they stay upright in all those stressfull flat and hilly stages. Like always we'll see some good climbers crashing out or get ill before the mountains even start.

 

[Red Rick]

I hadn't seen until now that they changed the Route for Tour de l'Avenir. They have shortened stage 6 so now it is only 42 KM starting with the HC climb so essentially they removed the easy part in the beginning. So still the HC climb and cat 1 climb and then a short uphill at goal. Then after this they added a 6b stage which is a 10 km mountain ITT at around 9%.

I don't think Nordhagen could get a better route to suite him. Is there any other of the top U-23 riders that benefit from another mountain time trial? I suppose Widar is likely not unhappy either.

If you like races that put on the fatigue 2 full gas stages in one day couldn't be better lol

 

[Onizuka999]

Italian team for Tour de l'Avenir: Finn - Donati - Gualdi - Turconi - Borgo - Mattio

 

[Oldman]

Louis Kitzki is quitting racing after witnessing two fatalities in his first years.

Signed by Alpecin from the Zwift background would suggest his lack of racing exposure might have placed him in jeopardy in his mind. All riders are motivated differently but is there any percentage of riders that folks here would guess come from that background?
Sad to hear a talent has such a short career but it sounds like he definitely not going to miss the racing part.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Seixas, Nordhagen, Widar, Omrzel, Torres... It's gonna be a good Avenir.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Seixas, Nordhagen, Widar, Omrzel, Torres... It's gonna be a good Avenir.

Who would be the favorite? My guess would be Seixas ahead of Widar, but I haven't been following these young guys too much.

 

[tourmabet]

Louis Kitzki is quitting racing after witnessing two fatalities in his first years.

Signed by Alpecin from the Zwift background would suggest his lack of racing exposure might have placed him in jeopardy in his mind. All riders are motivated differently but is there any percentage of riders that folks here would guess come from that background?
Sad to hear a talent has such a short career but it sounds like he definitely not going to miss the racing part.

Tough story...

 

[tourmabet]

Seixas, Nordhagen, Widar, Omrzel, Torres... It's gonna be a good Avenir.

Widar is the favourite as he is the only one behaving as a u23 rider this year

 

[Netserk]

Widar is the favourite as he is the only one behaving as a u23 rider this year

I think Seixas and Torres are the main favourites. Then Nordhagen.

 

[Berniece]

I think Seixas and Torres are the main favourites. Then Nordhagen.

He means that Widar is the only real U23 contender since the others rode a lot with the pro's.

 

[Samamba]

I think Seixas and Torres are the main favourites. Then Nordhagen.

I agree with Nordhagen (even tho I still think he's been pretty disappointing so far) and obviously definitely Seixas (if he has his level from the Dauphiné others don't stand a chance), but what is Torres based on? Just his performance from last year? That's already a long time ago.

Anyways probably at least 2 favorites crash out or get sick before the mountains even start.

If I have to give stars it would be something like this.

*****
Seixas
****
Nordhagen, Widar
***
Finn, Torres, Omrzel, Pericas, Novak
**
Tuckwell
*
Ramirez, Turcino, Meehan, O'Brien, Ward, some random Colombian, ...

And I probably forget some cause startlist is far from complete. And maybe there's some random pro participating too.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nordhagen has yet to convince me he is as good as he has been hyped up to be. Where as Widar has generally been performing better than people expected. No idea why Torres would be above most of the others, other than he now rides for UAE. Seixas should be considered the favorite based on his pro results.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Nordhagen has yet to convince me he is as good as he has been hyped up to be.

Nordhagen was pretty good in Romandie, 8th on the MTF there was very good. Then the last two stages in Babygiro he was good and he did look very good as a domestique in l’Ain last week.

I find it very hard to compare Nordhagen and Widar. Widar wins basically the whole time, but he’s basically only riding .2 and .2U races. Nordhagen is far from winning, but he races .WT, .Pro and .1 races. The Babygiro is the only “common ground” before Avenir, there Widar was strong in the start and abandoned, while Nordhagen was strong at the end (but only finished 4th).

Seixas should be the big favorite I agree.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Sexais>Widar then Nordhagen and the others is about right, Torres has struggled but you can't put it past UAE to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

I don't know if Andrew August is riding, he's in good form.

 

[tourmabet]

He means that Widar is the only real U23 contender since the others rode a lot with the pro's.

Exactly! And I thing it counts a lot in this race. Torres hasn't had a great season. Seixas is in my opinion Widar's biggest rival

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Where as Widar has generally been performing better than people expected.

This is only true if you think 'people expected' he would be worse than last year. His U23 showings have been similar to last year's and his pro results, while not bad, have also not been at the level of an elite-level talent. It hasn't been terrible by any means, but I was expecting a bit more. Overall his season has been quite similar to Staune-Mittet's final U23 year, and while the latter was admittedly a year older at the time that wasn't exactly a harbinger of great things to come.

Obviously Nordhagen and especially Torres have been worse, but that says more about how bad this season has been for the 2005 generation of climbers. Unless their development kicks back up a notch (or two) next year, maybe we've just been looking at three early bloomers.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nordhagen was pretty good in Romandie, 8th on the MTF there was very good. Then the last two stages in Babygiro he was good and he did look very good as a domestique in l’Ain last week.

I find it very hard to compare Nordhagen and Widar. Widar wins basically the whole time, but he’s basically only riding .2 and .2U races. Nordhagen is far from winning, but he races .WT, .Pro and .1 races. The Babygiro is the only “common ground” before Avenir, there Widar was strong in the start and abandoned, while Nordhagen was strong at the end (but only finished 4th).

Seixas should be the big favorite I agree.

I saw most of the MT stages in Tour de L'Ain, but he did not give me the impression of being better than Tulett, let alone close to Uijtdebroeks, which might very well be where he needs to be in Avenir. Uijtdebroeks was pushing his '22 numbers in Ain. That's the year he won Avenir, and Nordhagen was not remotely at that level last week. I have no reason to put him clearly above the others of this list.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This is only true if you think 'people expected' he would be worse than last year. His U23 showings have been similar to last year's and his pro results, while not bad, have also not been at the level of an elite-level talent. It hasn't been terrible by any means, but I was expecting a bit more. Overall his season has been quite similar to Staune-Mittet's final U23 year, and while the latter was admittedly a year older at the time that wasn't exactly a harbinger of great things to come.

Obviously Nordhagen and especially Torres have been worse, but that says more about how bad this season has been for the 2005 generation of climbers. Unless their development kicks back up a notch (or two) next year, maybe we've just been looking at three early bloomers.

Up until 14 months ago, Widar was considered a puncher who could do some climbs and finish off solos on hilly stages. Basically somewhere between 2018 Alaphilippe and 2019 Evenepoel. That's why i said that he has performed better than expected. Since he has become an elite (u23) climber.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Up until 14 months ago, Widar was considered a puncher who could do some climbs and finish off solos on hilly stages. Basically somewhere between 2018 Alaphilippe and 2019 Evenepoel. That's why i said that he has performed better than expected. Since he has become an elite (u23) climber.

I don't think what the expectations of Widar were in April 2024 are particularly relevant in a discussion of Avenir favourites in August 2025...

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I saw most of the MT stages in Tour de L'Ain, but he did not give me the impression of being better than Tulett, let alone close to Uijtdebroeks, which might very well be where he needs to be in Avenir. Uijtdebroeks was pushing his '22 numbers in Ain. That's the year he won Avenir, and Nordhagen was not remotely at that level last week. I have no reason to put him clearly above the others of this list.

Uijtdebroeks basically matched THJ's Avenir 2021 winning time on the same side of Grand Colombier (which was an unipuerto MTF stage), having already done one easy and one hard climb, while having to keep enough in reserve to solo the next 40 kilometres, so he was IMO above Avenir-winning level.

Doesn't mean Nordhagen wasn't poor in that race, but even so.

 

[Samamba]

This is only true if you think 'people expected' he would be worse than last year. His U23 showings have been similar to last year's and his pro results, while not bad, have also not been at the level of an elite-level talent. It hasn't been terrible by any means, but I was expecting a bit more. Overall his season has been quite similar to Staune-Mittet's final U23 year, and while the latter was admittedly a year older at the time that wasn't exactly a harbinger of great things to come.

Obviously Nordhagen and especially Torres have been worse, but that says more about how bad this season has been for the 2005 generation of climbers. Unless their development kicks back up a notch (or two) next year, maybe we've just been looking at three early bloomers.

Widar has been insanely consistent for 2 years long, not comparable to anyone else, and definitely not Staune Mittet. Also I've had this dicussion before, but he is not having the same year as last year, he has won literally everything he could. Last year he got smoked in Isard and didn't win LBL and Fleche Ardennaise for example. He was also way stronger in pro races this year, even without being really fit in France. In Coppi e Bartali he was only out of GC cause he was behind a crash at a crucial point (positioning is still a problem ofc).

Expecting him to make an even bigger step this year was just stupid. He's not going to that without actually racing pro races (and that's his own choice, even tho I don't agree with that). Absolutely 0 reason to think Widar is an early bloomer (well relatively, basically almost everyone is nowadays cause everyone lives like a pro early on).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Uijtdebroeks basically matched THJ's Avenir 2021 winning time on the same side of Grand Colombier (which was an unipuerto MTF stage), having already done one easy and one hard climb, while having to keep enough in reserve to solo the next 40 kilometres, so he was IMO above Avenir-winning level.

Doesn't mean Nordhagen wasn't poor in that race, but even so.

I never said Johannessen is the benchmark. I think he would be outmatched against this field. That year Daan Hoole, weighing 5 tractors, finished 9th.