Merckx: I fell in to a trap

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May 14, 2010
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coinneach said:
I don't think Merckx should be seen in isolation here: it's easy to complain with hindsight about what dupes Merckx, Liggett and co were.
But I think it shows what a cunning manipulative scheming dangerous man Lance is/was. He could spot who might be useful for him at the blink of an eye.
Merckx, Induran, Hinault are vulnerable: they all took stuff, yet know that's not the main reason they won the tour multiple times. Armstrong was different: doping was the reason he won.
Liggett is different: he is a journalist who should be informing us rather than misleading us. I reserve most scorn for him, but then I think, if Lance gave me a beautiful new Trek bike, might it have influenced me?:confused:
Wrong. No one is complaining about them being dupes. We're complaining about them being complicit.
 
Maxiton said:
Wrong. No one is complaining about them being dupes. We're complaining about them being complicit.
Bingo. It's the sheer scale and breadth of the complicity that triples the damage to any perception that Pro Cycling is actually a sport instead of WWE entertainment wrestling.

It's been mentioned 1000 times already, but Merckx's era of "doping" was nothing like Wonderboy's either. Lemond's last TdF illustrates this very well. Mid-pack performers Lemond never saw at the front suddenly killing him because they were EPO responders.
 
May 14, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Bingo. It's the sheer scale and breadth of the complicity that triples the damage to any perception that Pro Cycling is actually a sport instead of WWE entertainment wrestling.
True. But see my first answer, above. To quote myself:


In [Merckx's] world, medical preparation is part and parcel of racing. Anti-doping is a fairy tale for the fans and the sponsors who want to sell to the fans. Controls are there to be beaten, and as long as you listen to the doctors the controls won't be a problem and there won't likely be ill-health effects. The doctors keep you healthy and help you win. This is why he had no problem introducing his son to Ferrari.

That's been the thinking in racing, and when you combine that thinking with good, old fashioned European corruption, you get the sport we have today. The only thing that's different from days of old is the type of doping, and the rise and fall of that North American outlier, Lance Armstrong.
 
Maxiton said:
True. But see my first answer, above. To quote myself:


In [Merckx's] world, medical preparation is part and parcel of racing. Anti-doping is a fairy tale for the fans and the sponsors who want to sell to the fans. Controls are there to be beaten, and as long as you listen to the doctors the controls won't be a problem and there won't likely be ill-health effects. The doctors keep you healthy and help you win. This is why he had no problem introducing his son to Ferrari.

That's been the thinking in racing, and when you combine that thinking with good, old fashioned European corruption, you get the sport we have today. The only thing that's different from days of old is the type of doping, and the rise and fall of that North American outlier, Lance Armstrong.
I agree 100%.

But, the difference about today is if you are an extraordinary responder to whatever the peloton is using today, then you get the ridiculousness that was the 2012 TdF and Olympics. In Merckx's era, the doping didn't catapult you to the front.

The only thing left is the UCI picking winners by selectively enforcing doping. The UCI has this authority. WADA can only recommend opening a case to the UCI. UCI "catches" their annual 2% of minor elite athletes and they pick the winners for their biggest properties. Cycling is the new Entertainment Wrestling!
 
May 14, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
I agree 100%.

But, the difference about today is if you are an extraordinary responder to whatever the peloton is using today, then you get the ridiculousness that was the 2012 TdF and Olympics. In Merckx's era, the doping didn't catapult you to the front.

The only thing left is the UCI picking winners by selectively enforcing doping. The UCI has this authority. WADA can only recommend opening a case to the UCI. UCI "catches" their annual 2% of minor elite athletes and they pick the winners for their biggest properties. Cycling is the new Entertainment Wrestling!
I did cover the new doping by saying that the doping is different. :) But I think the ridiculousness of this year's TdF was not because Sky are great responders, it was because the UCI is already selectively enforcing doping. They did that with Armstrong and his team, after all. By now they have it down to a science.
 
Maxiton said:
I did cover the new doping by saying that the doping is different. :) But I think the ridiculousness of this year's TdF was not because Sky are great responders, it was because the UCI is already selectively enforcing doping. They did that with Armstrong and his team, after all. By now they have it down to a science.
Great post.
 
Angliru said:
You both are a bit off kilter. Merckx seems to be straddling the fence. Saying Armstrong has been correct his entire career and how "deeply unjust" the entire case is. I'd say he's leaning more to the pro-LA side than saying anything that is highly critical of him.
reading comprehension 101: Hrotha said Hrotha had criticized Merckx.
 
No_Balls said:
Great thread! The holy graal himself has been STRANGELY "forgotten" in these days of searching the villians. Lets see what his holyness himself says:



There he pulls an "Indurain, Contador" and whatever and questions the motifs of the whistleblowers.



[url]http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx-fell-into-the-trap-of-armstrong[/url]

Yep. Yep. There he questions the witnesses accuracy. As much Omertá if i ever saw one
.

This was before the reasoned decision

Question: Is it Mr Merckx who adjusts his position towards the evil spaniards or is it the evil spaniards who adjusts themselves close to his holyness Merckx in this question?

And another question: Were is the angry mob?
Everyone knows he introduced Armstrong to Ferrari and hasn't been taken seriously by the clinic. Mainstream media still take him seriously though.
 

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