Mikel Landa Discussion Thread

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

That said, Porte has a better palmarès than Landa when it comes to stage races.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

It's fair to compare him with Porte, problem is he is comparing himself to Froome or Quintana. Landa is so full of himself that even teaching him a few lessons won't help. It will be fun watching him attack Quintana while Valverde will try to reel him in or having a mechanical on the pave while every Movi rider is busy helping Nairo.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

The latter has chosen a team that wanted him as their sole captain for the Tour. Landa probably could have done the same, but chose not to.

All of the posters blaming Landa's teams for holding him back during GTs tend to forget he would probably never have been in the position to challenge for the win if not riding for that very team.

 

[Netserk]

My point was simply that if Porte was in the same team as Quintana and both targeted the Tour, you'd give them both freedom to target the GC and not be bound a priori to help the other. While Quintana is more likely to win the Tour, I find it perfectly reasonable that Landa will ride to win as well. After the first rest day, we'll see if both are still in contention. If so, they should be able to benefit from that without shackling either of them.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

Yeah but Porte didn't sign for Sky after leaving Sky only to then go all "damn I don't get to ride for myself so much at Sky" later.

Twice.

 

[Koronin]

Didn't Valverde make the comment back at the teammeetings that sending himself, Landa and Quintana to the Tour would be fun. He also made some comment that they'd all be free to ride as they each see fit. So if that's the case (and I doubt he's going to say something that team won't back) then Landa is really just talking and probably trying to get into Quintana's head. With Valverde's comments it would seem that he doesn't particularly care what Landa is saying.

 

[movingtarget]

Porte needs a change of luck. His form going into the Tour was good but he always seems to find trouble of some sort and time is running out for him. Landa just has to get on with it. After his Giro podium which seems like many years ago now he needs to show that he is capable of putting it together over three weeks after riding in the service of others in recent times.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Porte needs a change of luck. His form going into the Tour was good but he always seems to find trouble of some sort and time is running out for him. Landa just has to get on with it. After his Giro podium which seems like many years ago now he needs to show that he is capable of putting it together over three weeks after riding in the service of others in recent times.

Valverde saying they can all ride for themselves is all well and good but what if someone needs to chase Porte or Uran or Bardet ??

There has to be some kind of hierarchy ...plus Valverde doesnt care as it lets him off the hook and he has his Tour podium and he knows he will not better that ...Its Quintana who is going to have the issue with the free for all and the no chasing Landa

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Porte needs a change of luck. His form going into the Tour was good but he always seems to find trouble of some sort and time is running out for him. Landa just has to get on with it. After his Giro podium which seems like many years ago now he needs to show that he is capable of putting it together over three weeks after riding in the service of others in recent times.

Valverde saying they can all ride for themselves is all well and good but what if someone needs to chase Porte or Uran or Bardet ??

There has to be some kind of hierarchy ...plus Valverde doesnt care as it lets him off the hook and he has his Tour podium and he knows he will not better that ...Its Quintana who is going to have the issue with the free for all and the no chasing Landa

Valverde's podium days are over. The last thing Quintana will want is a split team especially with the difficult first week. I think Valverde will mainly concentrate on the classics now and the shorter stage races.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

I think that's because landa hasn't shown his full climbing potential since 2015 and even then it was in the giro and not the tour. When people say landa was the strongest climber last season they say that based on the assumption that landa would have been even stronger if he hadn't had the giro in his legs and hadn't worked for froome, but people never saw that he could beat someone like froome 1 on 1.
Porte however has consistently shown he can follow froome for two years. I might forget a race but so think froome hasn't dropped Porte uphill since 2015 (when they were still teammates). Porte was the only rider capable of following froome on the Mont du Chat, he was the only one following him on any single mountain stage in the tour 2016. Without bad luck and crashes we can be pretty sure porte would have challanged froome in the last two years. With landa I'm not so sure about that

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

I don't see any difference between what Landa showed while riding in service of another and what Froome showed. The fact that Sky eventually went with Froome as their grand tour leader and Wiggins wilted and faded away has maybe tainted one's perspective. At what point did Froome wretch the leadership from Wiggins during his period of super domestique servitude? Contador and Roche's circumstance are far and away above Froome's in terms of defying their team because they knew they were the superior rider to the rival teammate.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He has proved himself more in GTs than Porte has, yet the latter has a team build around him and is considered one of the favorites to win the Tour.

That said, Porte has a better palmarès than Landa when it comes to stage races.

...and Porte is in his thirties and Landa his twenties, approximately 4 year difference in age. Landa has a better palmares than Porte in the grand tours despite being 4 years his junior, if you're looking at final gc placements.

 

[monsieur_hulot]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

I don't see any difference between what Landa showed while riding in service of another and what Froome showed. The fact that Sky eventually went with Froome as their grand tour leader and Wiggins wilted and faded away has maybe tainted one's perspective. At what point did Froome wretch the leadership from Wiggins during his period of super domestique servitude? Contador and Roche's circumstance are far and away above Froome's in terms of defying their team because they knew they were the superior rider to the rival teammate.

I think Froome took the leadership during the 2012 tour when it was clear he was the strongest rider and that he could have dropped Wiggins in the mountains. He could have probably won the overall, but he definitely would have wrecked Wiggins chances by attacking. He offered his continued support in exchange for all future leadership (and a lot of additional money according to some).

While Landa has looked exceptionally strong he has never quite been in this position.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

In a peloton of mostly boring riders and a mostly boring, PC fandom, we're complaining about Landa's interviews in which he demonstrates some personality and spunk?

That is not personailty or spunk....that is just idle talk
He had opportunities to show spunk and he didnt ....he didnt at Astana and he didnt at SKY

Any rider can talk as if a champion....few can deliver

Froome, Contador, Roche, etc delivered when push came to shove

What has Landa done....talks as if someone needs to clear his way

At Movistar there will be a plan by managment ...and it will not be the Landa plan

But he does sound funny...with his proclamations

I don't see any difference between what Landa showed while riding in service of another and what Froome showed. The fact that Sky eventually went with Froome as their grand tour leader and Wiggins wilted and faded away has maybe tainted one's perspective. At what point did Froome wretch the leadership from Wiggins during his period of super domestique servitude? Contador and Roche's circumstance are far and away above Froome's in terms of defying their team because they knew they were the superior rider to the rival teammate.

I think Froome took the leadership during the 2012 tour when it was clear he was the strongest rider and that he could have dropped Wiggins in the mountains. He could have probably won the overall, but he definitely would have wrecked Wiggins chances by attacking. He offered his continued support in exchange for all future leadership (and a lot of additional money according to some).

While Landa has looked exceptionally strong he has never quite been in this position.

I thought we were talking about during that same race. The Roche circumstances are more similar to Froome's than Contador's. The difference I thought was being debated is who actually made the decision to ride for themselves, going against the team plans and eventually proved themselves correct by winning that particular Tour. Roche did. It could be argued that Contador did the same as Bruyneel was obviously backing Armstrong and was opposed to much of Contador's aggressive riding. In this vein if Froome were to have taken the lead from Roche and Contador, he would have been riding for himself throughout that fated Tour, not just on one or two stages.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re:

As for finishing high as a team mate we have seen several examples of that in recent years

Kreuziger was 5th (and could have been higher) at the 2013 Tour while burying himself for Contador
Tejay was 4th at the 2012 Tour while working for Cadel Evans
Valverde 3rd riding for Quntana at 2015 Tour
Frank Schleck 3rd riding for Andy at 2011 Tour


Being on or near the podium while riding for another is nothig new but it certainly does not herald a GT winner
Afterall you are unmarked and do not carry the responsibility of leadership.. you can attack at times without being chased or gains seconds ..high places are common in these circumstances if a rider is in top form

At no point did any of those four riders you cite look like the strongest rider in the race. Landa did, particularly by the third week. Review the footage if you doubt me.

We have precious few examples of stronger support riders ignoring team orders and winning GTs (Roche, perhaps Cunego and Aitor Gonzalez) over the past 30 years. It's risky, even if you're headed away from the team after the season is over. If Landa had done that, he'd have been savaged. Pillaged if you do, pillaged if you don't.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

As for finishing high as a team mate we have seen several examples of that in recent years

Kreuziger was 5th (and could have been higher) at the 2013 Tour while burying himself for Contador
Tejay was 4th at the 2012 Tour while working for Cadel Evans
Valverde 3rd riding for Quntana at 2015 Tour
Frank Schleck 3rd riding for Andy at 2011 Tour


Being on or near the podium while riding for another is nothig new but it certainly does not herald a GT winner
Afterall you are unmarked and do not carry the responsibility of leadership.. you can attack at times without being chased or gains seconds ..high places are common in these circumstances if a rider is in top form

At no point did any of those four riders you cite look like the strongest rider in the race. Landa did, particularly by the third week. Review the footage if you doubt me.

We have precious few examples of stronger support riders ignoring team orders and winning GTs (Roche, perhaps Cunego and Aitor Gonzalez) over the past 30 years. It's risky, even if you're headed away from the team after the season is over. If Landa had done that, he'd have been savaged. Pillaged if you do, pillaged if you don't.

He looked stronger in the second week.

 

[Velolover2]

People say he is going to lose a lot of time on the cobbles but I wouldn't be surprise if he tried with some hazardous attacks on that stage despite being a pure climber.

He is one of the few riders who is crazy enough to do so.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Porte needs a change of luck. His form going into the Tour was good but he always seems to find trouble of some sort and time is running out for him. Landa just has to get on with it. After his Giro podium which seems like many years ago now he needs to show that he is capable of putting it together over three weeks after riding in the service of others in recent times.

Valverde saying they can all ride for themselves is all well and good but what if someone needs to chase Porte or Uran or Bardet ??

There has to be some kind of hierarchy ...plus Valverde doesnt care as it lets him off the hook and he has his Tour podium and he knows he will not better that ...Its Quintana who is going to have the issue with the free for all and the no chasing Landa

Valverde's podium days are over. The last thing Quintana will want is a split team especially with the difficult first week. I think Valverde will mainly concentrate on the classics now and the shorter stage races.

There is a hierarachy, Valverde is that team's leader regardless of who they are racing for. When it comes right down to they look to him for direction and instructions. Quintana can have all the issues he wants, but as long as Valverde is there that is who the team will look to for leadership.
At the Tour most likely, however, you're going to have fun trying to convince him he can't podium at la Vuelta which is the one he wants as he wants history there. Truthfully, I think the reason they are sending Valverde to the Tour is to basically play referee between Quintana and Landa and when the war breaks out between those two for him to keep the rest of the team from imploding. Landa has recently said that he and Valverde get along well and are good friends. He and Quintana don't really get along very well.

 

[Salvarani]

How is Landa calender looking like this season?

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

How is Landa calender looking like this season?

Andalucia
Paris-Nice
Pais Vasco
Suisse or Dauphine
Tour
San Seb
Burgos?
Vuelta
Worlds
Lombardia

 

[Valv.Piti]

Would be suicide to race Burgos after the Tour when he the Vuelta and especially WC also are important goals for him/Movistar. But a very light schedule ahead of the Tour is the right thing to do when you also have Valverde and Quintana in the cards who always are great in the spring.

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

How is Landa calender looking like this season?

Andalucia
Paris-Nice
Pais Vasco
Suisse or Dauphine
Tour
San Seb
Burgos?
Vuelta
Worlds
Lombardia

Nice.

 

[liamito]

Re: Re:

How is Landa calender looking like this season?

Andalucia
Paris-Nice
Pais Vasco
Suisse or Dauphine
Tour
San Seb
Burgos?
Vuelta
Worlds
Lombardia

You have confirmation for Paris-Nice?

 

[Serpentin]

What can we hope for in Ruta del Sol? Top 5 and maybe light the race on fire on stage 2 ?

 

[Salvarani]

Landa seems up for it at Ruta Del Sol.

Very interesting to see that he will target a few of the classic races. Probably rules out Giro for sure.