Moderators

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

The "Mechanical Doping: First Rider Caught" thread now appears to have at least two parallel discussions which can't be considered off-topic (one being the general discussion of the mechanics of installation and disguise of motor systems within bikes, and their feasibility, and one being the discussion of the specific incident at Zolder). Admittedly, as new news in respect of the van den Driessches is limited at present, the conversation is becoming less hydra-headed, but if it's feasible (appreciate the thread may be too big for that now), might it be worth dividing the discussions into two threads so that the respective narratives are easier to follow?

good idea.
one could make a new, different thread for the strictly theoretical/mechanical/technical side of bike doping, and leave the femke stuff where it is.

Yeah because you know one can only watch a few min of folks stealing birds vid's.

 

[Irondan]

RE: From members suspension appreciation/depreciation thread

....gotta say even after a couple of days the way this thread ultimately played out still feels weird ( see Flo's post above for some good thoughts on this )....

....interesting that you would bring up that particular chapter of the LeMond thread at this point because I had forgotten about that earth shattering kaboom ( rumour has it that is was so big that it actually created gravitational waves.....and the aftermath was horrific....body parts were strewn everywhere and many august posters condemned to the gulag of the banned....about the only good thing that happened is that a particulary trouble-some black-hole disappeared from this place....)....

...now where was I going with this ?......oh yeah....now, if I were a conspiratorial sort, which of course I'm not, but lets assume for a second I may be, then I could conceivably think that there is a hidden trip wire that was hit in both of those threads that resulted in bedlam, banishments, lockdowns, and a sense of frustration that has had some valued members of this forum thinking long and hard about their participation here and some in fact leaving ( which btw is in my opinion the worst outcome of this mess )....

....it might be nice to have some comments from those responsible for the lockdown ...would definitely help make sense of this....because the idea brought up was most worthwhile, and yeah the usual noise sources started their wails, but nothing out of the ordinary....so what gives....is there a trip wire ?....do we have a dark conspiracy here in our wee shire ?....some clarity would help sweep away the dark and we would be able to sleep well tonight........

Cheers

From: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1865165#p1865165

Tripwire? No, not so much a tripwire but there's a line in the sand that's based on admin/mod's interpretations of where a thread's going and what value certain comments bring to said thread.

In the certain instance that we're conversing about (Contador is cycling's one true champion) mods felt that the actual topic of the thread had long been discarded in favor of bickering, baiting, trolling, personal attacks and off topic chatter. Most of this occurred in a very short period of time, thus forcing mods to close the thread.

If anyone were to go back and read the last couple pages of the thread they would see that in the direction the thread was headed, it was inevitable it would be closed.

 

[blutto]

Re: RE: From members suspension appreciation/depreciation th

....gotta say even after a couple of days the way this thread ultimately played out still feels weird ( see Flo's post above for some good thoughts on this )....

....interesting that you would bring up that particular chapter of the LeMond thread at this point because I had forgotten about that earth shattering kaboom ( rumour has it that is was so big that it actually created gravitational waves.....and the aftermath was horrific....body parts were strewn everywhere and many august posters condemned to the gulag of the banned....about the only good thing that happened is that a particulary trouble-some black-hole disappeared from this place....)....

...now where was I going with this ?......oh yeah....now, if I were a conspiratorial sort, which of course I'm not, but lets assume for a second I may be, then I could conceivably think that there is a hidden trip wire that was hit in both of those threads that resulted in bedlam, banishments, lockdowns, and a sense of frustration that has had some valued members of this forum thinking long and hard about their participation here and some in fact leaving ( which btw is in my opinion the worst outcome of this mess )....

....it might be nice to have some comments from those responsible for the lockdown ...would definitely help make sense of this....because the idea brought up was most worthwhile, and yeah the usual noise sources started their wails, but nothing out of the ordinary....so what gives....is there a trip wire ?....do we have a dark conspiracy here in our wee shire ?....some clarity would help sweep away the dark and we would be able to sleep well tonight........

Cheers

From: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1865165#p1865165

Tripwire? No, not so much a tripwire but there's a line in the sand that's based on admin/mod's interpretations of where a thread's going and what value certain comments bring to said thread.

In the certain instance that we're conversing about (Contador is cycling's one true champion) mods felt that the actual topic of the thread had long been discarded in favor of bickering, baiting, trolling, personal attacks and off topic chatter. Most of this occurred in a very short period of time, thus forcing mods to close the thread.

If anyone were to go back and read the last couple pages of the thread they would see that in the direction the thread was headed, it was inevitable it would be closed.

....thank you for the response....

Cheers

 

[Maxiton]

Re: RE: From members suspension appreciation/depreciation th

....gotta say even after a couple of days the way this thread ultimately played out still feels weird ( see Flo's post above for some good thoughts on this )....

....interesting that you would bring up that particular chapter of the LeMond thread at this point because I had forgotten about that earth shattering kaboom ( rumour has it that is was so big that it actually created gravitational waves.....and the aftermath was horrific....body parts were strewn everywhere and many august posters condemned to the gulag of the banned....about the only good thing that happened is that a particulary trouble-some black-hole disappeared from this place....)....

...now where was I going with this ?......oh yeah....now, if I were a conspiratorial sort, which of course I'm not, but lets assume for a second I may be, then I could conceivably think that there is a hidden trip wire that was hit in both of those threads that resulted in bedlam, banishments, lockdowns, and a sense of frustration that has had some valued members of this forum thinking long and hard about their participation here and some in fact leaving ( which btw is in my opinion the worst outcome of this mess )....

....it might be nice to have some comments from those responsible for the lockdown ...would definitely help make sense of this....because the idea brought up was most worthwhile, and yeah the usual noise sources started their wails, but nothing out of the ordinary....so what gives....is there a trip wire ?....do we have a dark conspiracy here in our wee shire ?....some clarity would help sweep away the dark and we would be able to sleep well tonight........

Cheers

From: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1865165#p1865165

Tripwire? No, not so much a tripwire but there's a line in the sand that's based on admin/mod's interpretations of where a thread's going and what value certain comments bring to said thread.

In the certain instance that we're conversing about (Contador is cycling's one true champion) mods felt that the actual topic of the thread had long been discarded in favor of bickering, baiting, trolling, personal attacks and off topic chatter. Most of this occurred in a very short period of time, thus forcing mods to close the thread.

If anyone were to go back and read the last couple pages of the thread they would see that in the direction the thread was headed, it was inevitable it would be closed.

The thing is, Dan, and as you well know, the clinic played an important role in gathering info about Armstrong and putting the info together. This involved a lot of speculation and discussion and it was the only place on the web where it was happening consistently, over a period of years. But not because people weren't trying in forums other than the clinic.

Whenever people tried to discuss it in other forums they were soon shot down. They were shot down by editors and moderators who were sympathetic to Armstrong, or who didn't want the exposure to his wrath, or who were just concerned about hanging on to their advertising dollars. And when they weren't shut down by editors and moderators, they were shot down by trolls, who would invade threads and derail them.

The clinic was the one place where trolls weren't allowed to do that. Whenever BPC and his trolls tried it in the clinic, it was the trolls who were shut down. When they tried to derail threads there, for any reason, their comments were deleted, and then a mod would come in to tell everyone to stop trolling. These threads stayed open, and once in a while people would add new ideas or info to them. That's why I thought the clinic might be a good place to post my controversial thread.

I was aware, of course, that calling Contador contemporary cycling's "One True Champion" would not be to everyone's taste. That's why I secured permission from an administrator before I posted the thread. Having posted it, I think I explained why I was making the claim for Contador, and made a good case for it. Of course, you had to be willing to read the thread and actually consider the idea.

The main thing I was driving at is that the UCI is corrupt; and that corruption in the UCI is cycling's main problem, not doping. But I was also saying that the sport is not beyond redemption, by pointing out that Contador, for his own reasons, had managed to defy the people who had controlled the sport for so many years.

I was hoping the thread could stay open so that, over time, people could bring information to it, as rhubroma did when he posted info about Pantani and the ongoing investigation into his death. If mods treated the thread in the same way they treated threads about Armstrong, trolling it would not be tolerated, the thread would still be open, and we might get somewhere.

 

[blutto]

Re: RE: From members suspension appreciation/depreciation th

....gotta say even after a couple of days the way this thread ultimately played out still feels weird ( see Flo's post above for some good thoughts on this )....

....interesting that you would bring up that particular chapter of the LeMond thread at this point because I had forgotten about that earth shattering kaboom ( rumour has it that is was so big that it actually created gravitational waves.....and the aftermath was horrific....body parts were strewn everywhere and many august posters condemned to the gulag of the banned....about the only good thing that happened is that a particulary trouble-some black-hole disappeared from this place....)....

...now where was I going with this ?......oh yeah....now, if I were a conspiratorial sort, which of course I'm not, but lets assume for a second I may be, then I could conceivably think that there is a hidden trip wire that was hit in both of those threads that resulted in bedlam, banishments, lockdowns, and a sense of frustration that has had some valued members of this forum thinking long and hard about their participation here and some in fact leaving ( which btw is in my opinion the worst outcome of this mess )....

....it might be nice to have some comments from those responsible for the lockdown ...would definitely help make sense of this....because the idea brought up was most worthwhile, and yeah the usual noise sources started their wails, but nothing out of the ordinary....so what gives....is there a trip wire ?....do we have a dark conspiracy here in our wee shire ?....some clarity would help sweep away the dark and we would be able to sleep well tonight........

Cheers

From: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1865165#p1865165

Tripwire? No, not so much a tripwire but there's a line in the sand that's based on admin/mod's interpretations of where a thread's going and what value certain comments bring to said thread.

In the certain instance that we're conversing about (Contador is cycling's one true champion) mods felt that the actual topic of the thread had long been discarded in favor of bickering, baiting, trolling, personal attacks and off topic chatter. Most of this occurred in a very short period of time, thus forcing mods to close the thread.

If anyone were to go back and read the last couple pages of the thread they would see that in the direction the thread was headed, it was inevitable it would be closed.

The thing is, Dan, and as you well know, the clinic played an important role in gathering info about Armstrong and putting the info together. This involved a lot of speculation and discussion and it was the only place on the web where it was happening consistently, over a period of years. But not because people weren't trying in forums other than the clinic.

Whenever people tried to discuss it in other forums they were soon shot down. They were shot down by editors and moderators who were sympathetic to Armstrong, or who didn't want the exposure to his wrath, or who were just concerned about hanging on to their advertising dollars. And when they weren't shut down by editors and moderators, they were shot down by trolls, who would invade threads and derail them.

The clinic was the one place where trolls weren't allowed to do that. Whenever BPC and his trolls tried it in the clinic, it was the trolls who were shut down. When they tried to derail threads there, for any reason, their comments were deleted, and then a mod would come in to tell everyone to stop trolling. These threads stayed open, and once in a while people would add new ideas or info to them. That's why I thought the clinic might be a good place to post my controversial thread.

I was aware, of course, that calling Contador contemporary cycling's "One True Champion" would not be to everyone's taste. That's why I secured permission from an administrator before I posted the thread. Having posted it, I think I explained why I was making the claim for Contador, and made a good case for it. Of course, you had to be willing to read the thread and actually consider the idea.

The main thing I was driving at is that the UCI is corrupt; and that corruption in the UCI is cycling's main problem, not doping. But I was also saying that the sport is not beyond redemption, by pointing out that Contador, for his own reasons, had managed to defy the people who had controlled the sport for so many years.

I was hoping the thread could stay open so that, over time, people could bring information to it, as rhubroma did when he posted info about Pantani and the ongoing investigation into his death. If mods treated the thread in the same way they treated threads about Armstrong, trolling it would not be tolerated, the thread would still be open, and we might get somewhere.

...yeah, what Max said !....

Cheers

 

[thehog]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

 

[Jspear]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

You could call me a really mean name and I could report it.

 

[Irondan]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

If you really insist on being banned, I think we can work something out...

 

[mrhender]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

Must have been a slip up on our side.
MCE perhaps?

thehog is hereby banned one week for not being banned in a long time.

 

[the delgados]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

Must have been a slip up on our side.
MCE perhaps?

thehog is hereby banned one week for not being banned in a long time.

Hey, wait. Shouldn't you be banned for neglecting your duties to ban thehog?
Why punish thehog for your mistake?
Free thehog!

 

[Beech Mtn]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

Must have been a slip up on our side.
MCE perhaps?

thehog is hereby banned one week for not being banned in a long time.

Shouldn't this wait until Tuesday?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Dam Rick James was banned! "Cocaine's a helluvah drug"

 

[thehog]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

If you really insist on being banned, I think we can work something out...

I miss being banned. I'm not cycling enough, putting on weight.

 

[Irondan]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

If you really insist on being banned, I think we can work something out...

I miss being banned. I'm not cycling enough, putting on weight.

The Hog is banned until further notice.

Please use this time wisely to ride your bike and live your life.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

If you really insist on being banned, I think we can work something out...

I miss being banned. I'm not cycling enough, putting on weight.

Dear Hog,

If you want to get banned, there's a more heroic way.

Go into the PRR section and start a thread titled "Petition to Disallow any Threads or Posts about Chris Froome Outside the Clinic." Then proceed to make the case. At length. It will be easy, and also a service to mankind.

I'm sure there will be a quick reaction, and while you are riding out your vacation, you'll know you fought the good fight against darkness and David Walsh.

Godspeed, friend.

-Beech Mtn

 

[Maxiton]

Mods I haven't been banned in a long time, what's up?

If you really insist on being banned, I think we can work something out...

I miss being banned. I'm not cycling enough, putting on weight.

Dear Hog,

If you want to get banned, there's a more heroic way.

Go into the PRR section and start a thread titled "Petition to Disallow any Threads or Posts about Chris Froome Outside the Clinic." Then proceed to make the case. At length. It will be easy, and also a service to mankind.

I'm sure there will be a quick reaction, and while you are riding out your vacation, you'll know you fought the good fight against darkness and David Walsh.

Godspeed, friend.

-Beech Mtn

Yeah, I second this. Great idea. We got your back, Hog.

 

[red_flanders]

Not wild about the Lemond thread getting closed. Don't know what all moderation was required obviously, and certainly nothing new was getting posted, but why not just give the violators a break instead of closing the thread. Didn't seem THAT bad from the outside. Just my 2 cents, never a fan of thread closures. Whatever y'all think, obviously.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

Not wild about the Lemond thread getting closed. Don't know what all moderation was required obviously, and certainly nothing new was getting posted, but why not just give the violators a break instead of closing the thread. Didn't seem THAT bad from the outside. Just my 2 cents, never a fan of thread closures. Whatever y'all think, obviously.

Who knows why the thread was closed. Perhaps Lemond pulled an Armstrong and threatened legal action.
I really don't know. But when threads like that get closed, it leads to more questions.
For what it's worth, I don't know if Lemond took PED's; but it seems so crazy that participants on a cycling message board would without question say Lemond never took a doping product in his entire career. Not one.
That's crazy.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Not wild about the Lemond thread getting closed. Don't know what all moderation was required obviously, and certainly nothing new was getting posted, but why not just give the violators a break instead of closing the thread. Didn't seem THAT bad from the outside. Just my 2 cents, never a fan of thread closures. Whatever y'all think, obviously.

Who knows why the thread was closed. Perhaps Lemond pulled an Armstrong and threatened legal action.
I really don't know. But when threads like that get closed, it leads to more questions.
For what it's worth, I don't know if Lemond took PED's; but it seems so crazy that participants on a cycling message board would without question say Lemond never took a doping product in his entire career. Not one.
That's crazy.

This really isn't the place to re-open the discussion or launch into conspiracy theories.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Not wild about the Lemond thread getting closed. Don't know what all moderation was required obviously, and certainly nothing new was getting posted, but why not just give the violators a break instead of closing the thread. Didn't seem THAT bad from the outside. Just my 2 cents, never a fan of thread closures. Whatever y'all think, obviously.

Who knows why the thread was closed. Perhaps Lemond pulled an Armstrong and threatened legal action.
I really don't know. But when threads like that get closed, it leads to more questions.
For what it's worth, I don't know if Lemond took PED's; but it seems so crazy that participants on a cycling message board would without question say Lemond never took a doping product in his entire career. Not one.
That's crazy.

I agree, it does seem a little crazy. But, then again, in years past there was more than one cycling board that wouldn't tolerate any questioning of Armstrong (although the Clinic thankfully wasn't among them).

It's just as well that the thread was closed, in my view. We made some progress and developed some new info, and all that was getting buried in several pages of antagonistic posting.

I learned some new stuff while the thread was open. Maybe when we learn a little more we can get the thread opened again.

 

[Irondan]

I gave an explanation on why the lemond thread was closed.

Any conspiracy theories that are generated are just plain false.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

I gave an explanation on why the lemond thread was closed.

Any conspiracy theories that are generated are just plain false.

Irondan,

Are you sure it wasn't you on the grassy knoll?

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I gave an explanation on why the lemond thread was closed.

Any conspiracy theories that are generated are just plain false.

Irondan,

Are you sure it wasn't you on the grassy knoll?

Not entirely.

 

[the delgados]

I don't believe there is a conspiracy behind shutting down an a thread.
It was a bad attempt at making a joke.
Point I was trying to make is I don't agree with a thread getting shut down simply because some participants tend to bicker. That's what happens on the internet. No biggie.
That said, I need to make a mental note to remind me that there's probably a lot more going on that the general public doesn't see.
So kudos to the mods for doing a thankless job.

 

[sniper]

In my view the discussion shifted towards the question who introduced EPO into the peloton.
Now, from memory, there once was a thread with that title (something like "first epo users in the peloton").
Would the mods be ok with bumping that thread in order to review the new evidence posted by Fearless Greg?

@redflanders.
lol at your constant claim that "nothing new" was posted.
when i posted about dhaenens, i first checked to see if he'd been mentioned before. 0 times.
yet there you were "nothing new". "rehashing". Etc.
Then i posted the boogerd rumor. Again, first checking if it hadn't been posted in the lemond thread previously.
0 times. Yet again, in came Red and others to claim "nothing new". "Same old same old".
gisbers. 0 times. Red: "Nothing new."
Sergeant rumor: 0 times. Red (and others) "same old rehashing"
Inconsistencies in kidney story: zero times.
Eddie and the juniors going to Poland: zero.
Lemond's father in law being an MD: zero.
Yet Red et al first on the scene to claim "rehashing, nothing new, move on".
Now on the last two or three pages, Fearless posted some indisputably new stuff up.
The Donati-vanmol link. 0 times mentioned before.
The anonymous whistleblower in that Dutch newspaper.
Or the name of Castoings: both mentioned 0 times before in the thread.
Yet here you are, again, claiming "nothing new was posted".
Hilarious.
And out of all those new pieces of info you didn't seriously engage with one single one of them. All you mustered, time and time again, was "Nothing new. Baseless rumors. I saw him ride, I made up my mind decades ago, nothing like the EPO-fueled racing of the nineties".
Talking about rehashing old arguments...