Mods. Help. Please. The madness must stop

[Race Radio]

Yeah, and that is the gist of the issue isn't it?

This forum has a definite slant due to long time posters of a certain opinion, supported by equally slanted moderation as you have seen in this thread. It is possible that others think differently, and to hash things out on a public forum and agree to disagree, then see where the chips fall is the way it should be.

Instead, somebody questions the groupthink in here and they immediately get called troll and ridiculed. Called all sorts of names like I have posted in my signature at times. Then somebody gets their panties in a wad and starts a thread like this for some group commiseration. Are you guys really this pussified?

I will continue to question the status quo in here when hypocrisy rears its head (it happens alot). I probably won't be around long.

The most common reason that someone is called a troll is because they give some ludicrous BPC argument in an effort to disrupt. Certainly this label is occasionally incorrectly applied but the guy has over 100 usernames so far, there will be some shrapnel.

 

[MacRoadie]

You play these games with yourself lol. Obviously you care about what I write because you took time out of your hectic day to respond to my post. And, I believe you have responded to my posts before. You will do so in the future. You need to come to grips with this and maybe you can move on.

Nope, just relaxing here in my office. Getting paid regardless, so why not amuse myself and bring home a nice paycheck at the same time? The day is only as hectic as I choose to make it.

Anyway, reading your posts between intelligent dialog with the more rational members of the forum really takes no time, as the posts really don't require a great deal of cognizant thought. It's like white noise in the background.

In the end, it beats streaming Comedy Central, and it makes me laugh harder.

ETA: "Pussified" isn't getting you any closer...trust me.

 

[Wicked Witch]

I enjoy the (mostly) well informed arguments which are posted by most of the users on this forum. I rarely post due to being a 'newbie' who sees herself as someone with rather limited knowledge within the cycling community and I have a fear of posting something which will just be attacked by the very difficult posters who seem to have appeared over the past 6 weeks.

This forum has given me a great deal of enjoyment in my short time of being a member and I agree with placing limitations on the posts from new members in order to eliminate the posts that are pure venom.

Keep up the healthy arguments!

 

[ThaiPanda]

I do not think we agree on much but you have a point here. I will be the hatchet man.

There are plenty here that I do not agree with but I do not want them banned. I am not sure why you were banned the first time. I think it is important to have both sides, but trolls like BPC kill any discussion.

Free speech is important, otherwise you don't know who the idiots are.

At least you have moved on from calling me BPC like I was called on one of my first posts on the moderator thread. Can I also shed the label of "Public Strategy plant", "willfully stupid", and my favorite one "sick puppy"? Actually, keep that one because it does sorta describe me.

If you are the hatchet man you can unhatchet some of these uncool names that are causing me emotional harm? Thanks.

Moving on, if I am who you think I am then that proves my point. Why was I banned RR? This will get to the heart of this stupid thread and maybe the OP can go have a bowel movement.

Here's a hypothetical to ponder because you just think you know who I am ....maybe another poster called me a name on a thread and maybe I responded in kind. Then, maybe I got banned and the other poster didn't.

Maybe I got banned because I was critical of the groupthink in here, even though 99% of the time I believed in basically the same thing but just questioned some of the hypocrisy and rabidness.

Maybe the other poster is one of the good old boys in CN forums and thus I was the one that got banned and was made an example of.....an example of what the OP of this fukd up thread is really saying.

Maybe if all of that happened then maybe you can see my point. Just maybe, but I doubt it.

 

[ThaiPanda]

Nope, just relaxing here in my office. Getting paid regardless, so why not amuse myself and bring home a nice paycheck at the same time? The day is only as hectic as I choose to make it.

Anyway, reading your posts between intelligent dialog with the more rational members of the forum really takes no time, as the posts really don't require a great deal of cognizant thought. It's like white noise in the background.

In the end, it beats streaming Comedy Central, and it makes me laugh harder.

ETA: "Pussified" isn't getting you any closer...trust me.

Just so you know, my goal is to impress you. Can you PM me some talking points and the rules I must follow to join the club? Thanks.

 

[Comeback 2011]

The most common reason that someone is called a troll is because they give some ludicrous BPC argument in an effort to disrupt. Certainly this label is occasionally incorrectly applied but the guy has over 100 usernames so far, there will be some shrapnel.

Can you give us some example of what BPC has done over the past few days or weeks so I can get a better understanding of what you are refering to. Because it seems to me that some people are upset with Cycling news for publishing a letter by Dr Ferrari and perhaps are taking that out on some mystery poster who hasn't actually done anything wrong.

So just point out a few of the things he has done in, say, the last few days.

 

[MacRoadie]

Just so you know, my goal is to impress you

That's pretty pathetic. You need to develop some higher goals.

 

[pedaling squares]

As it's in the open, here are some of the ideas being kicked around...

I like these ideas, especially the probation period although that might create further headaches for the mods. It would be worth it for the rest of us though. It would also be fairly easy to spot a troll who ramped up the pace circa post #11. I don't know if the parent company would want to risk any liability of having real names made public. Even though we willingly choose to post the courts (in NA anyway) would probably assign some blame to Future Publishing in the event of a real life Jackhammer incident.

Unfortunately BPC has bragged many times about being able to get a new IP address at will. He is an experienced and committed troll.

His goal is to disrupt the forum and he does so as often successful. By stirring conflict he not only insures that smooth conversation is not possible but also insures that the tone of the discussion is caustic.

Get rid of him and the forum will be a much better place to communicate.

Yep, but this has been said by you, me, and others many times before. The ONLY true remedy is for all of us to resist responding to him or debating his nonsense once he has been identified. And we have all failed at this repeatedly. We are to blame nearly as much as he is. Instead of fighting fire with fire, try ignoring ignorance.

A suggestion I posted about a year ago..

If there would be some way to capture all the screen names that other members have added to their ignore lists you could run a query every month or more and see who has is being ignored frequently and then ban them or warn them etc.. It would be similar to the way Google uses incoming links and the legitimacy of those links to determine a site ranking...

Good idea in theory, but someone with more free time than intelligence would create 20 new accounts so he could ignore his favourite targets 20 times.

Yes, because you either can't debate or are so weak mentally you can't stand to be challenged. Good luck with that.

A fine summary of the intelligent debate we have to plow through when trying to find something of interest on these forums. Absent of fact or even opinion on anything relevant to cycling. Insulting someone under a pseudonym, bravo. I don't mind reading a debate that gets intense, but I'd like to see a few ideas brought forth before the insults are dragged out.

 

[Comeback 2011]

Yep, but this has been said by you, me, and others many times before. The ONLY true remedy is for all of us to resist responding to him or debating his nonsense once he has been identified. And we have all failed at this repeatedly. We are to blame nearly as much as he is. Instead of fighting fire with fire, try ignoring ignorance

What does he do that annoys you? Because the moderator Martin says BPC is not a troll but is banned for violating a banned. But here you guys are saying he is a troll, without showing any examples, but not mentioning any of the baiting threads from the likes of Mooseknuckles and others.

I'm just a bit confused. Perhaps you too coulc cite some recent examples. Has he done any of this trolling today, for instance? Yesterday, the day before? Which threads?

 

[Anonymous]

It's a mess on both sides of the fence. If someone would admin me, I'd run a hatchet down each side.

I'd only run it down one...but you wouldn't get the axe from me, I am kinda sweet on you

 

[Fester]

Invitation only forum? Given the six degrees of separation business, everyone who might want an invite would get an invite. Then you could ban the idiot and his accomplices.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I'd be screwed, and anyone on someone elses computer would be screwed, too. Not fair imo.

I think even a free email address and a delay of several days would weed out a lot. Couple that with monitoring newbs closely for a few posts and I think a lot of these trolls will think it too much work.

Just adding, the free email sites have a limit to how many are free. BPC would be done within a couple weeks, or less.

Unfortunately, there are free email sites set up to provide anonymity and are not limited as you suggest. BPC is very good at what he does, and there is nothing anyone here can do about it. A commitment on the part of regular posters to cease responding to him in any way, and having a thread explaining what we have a troll, and how to ignore him is the only way to get rid of him. (those new members who respond to him could be directed to that thread.) Those who respond to him positively will not keep him here. He is not here to find agreement. He is here to disrupt. If, on an individual level, we cease letting him disrupt our posting, he will leave eventually. Quit banning him. Let him have his name. He will create new accounts when nobody responds to him, but his posting style is pretty easy to spot, so it won't take long to inform everyone.

 

[scribe]

I'd only run it down one...but you wouldn't get the axe from me, I am kinda sweet on you

In advance of my pending admining, I am accepting $100 cash donations in exchange for posting privileges!

 

[carl spackler]

I dont post a ton on here but have been reading for a while now and have found the general tone to be in keeping with the bulk of the evidence that we see. Is it biased? Is anyone who thinks differently than the consensus labeled a troll?

The very "marginal" nature of this forum makes it hard to know what constitutes bias. We are forced to a separate forum by the nature of our discussion, is this not bias? Coming here and spouting pro-armstrong rhetoric is a little like going into a black neighborhood and talking about white supremacy.

There are jerks everywhere on these forums, territorial, condescending, arrogant, whatever. But most of the people here use well reasoned arguments, and I have learned a ton. The obvious trolls actually have shown me just how ridiculous most of the pro-armstrong arguments are. When I came here I didnt know much about doping in cycling, but now I really cant imagine how any reasonable person could think Armstrong or others clean. Maybe thats why they all seem like trolls. Maybe the evidence has become so heavy as time has gone on, anyone who doesnt believe it, just seems more and more preposterous.

 

[Dunedain]

Where have all the (for want of a better word) trolls come from?

Every thread is ruined by cynical cowards posting inflammatory rubbish.

There have always been a few, but now, it's just crazy.

Mods, I implore you, please stop them. This forum is ruined otherwise.

Anyone else agree?

I have seen a lot of these posts on this forum. From what I have gathered, unless you trash Lance, Radioshack, et al. you are likely to be labeled uninformed and then a troll. This keeps the threads devoid of clear reason and a diversity of opinion. I have read threads which consist of one lance basher complimenting the next lance basher back and forth. I have also seen entire threads devoted to slandering someone as a "troll" or "fanboy". On my first post on this forum, citing a scientific article on EPO, the response from one of your regulars was "nice try". Wow, that is welcoming.

I have found myself trying to push back on the one-sidedness of this forum. I am concerned that what a troll has become to many here is one who does not share their opinion. In that case, we are all trolls and we should let it aside and go on and enjoy a diversity of opinion.

 

[creeve]

I have seen a lot of these posts on this forum. From what I have gathered, unless you trash Lance, Radioshack, et al. you are likely to be labeled uninformed and then a troll. This keeps the threads devoid of clear reason and a diversity of opinion. I have read threads which consist of one lance basher complimenting the next lance basher back and forth. I have also seen entire threads devoted to slandering someone as a "troll" or "fanboy". On my first post on this forum, citing a scientific article on EPO, the response from one of your regulars was "nice try". Wow, that is welcoming.

I have found myself trying to push back on the one-sidedness of this forum. I am concerned that what a troll has become to many here is one who does not share their opinion. In that case, we are all trolls and we should let it aside and go on and enjoy a diversity of opinion.

Couldn't agree more - many on this forum don't let "FACTS" get in the way of their shrill, childish hatred for Armstrong/Lemond. No room for diverse opinion here - guess I should just move on and let the "experts" here continue with their gossip. What a bunch of tools.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Couldn't agree more - many on this forum don't let "FACTS" get in the way of their shrill, childish hatred for Armstrong/Lemond. No room for diverse opinion here - guess I should just move on and let the "experts" here continue with their gossip. What a bunch of tools.

Well so far you have certainly shared a lot with the group. I'm thinking if you do "move on" no one will even know.

 

[_yngve_]

As it's in the open, here are some of the ideas being kicked around. Whether they come to fruition or not remains to be seen. I have NO votes in the decision as to what changes will be implemented:

--snip--

Perhaps another worth considering would be the prohibition of accounts registered with the use of anonymous email services (hotmail, gmail, yahoo mail, etc.). This likely wouldn't stop the multiple account trolls, but it would put up a nice barrier

 

[creeve]

Well so far you have certainly shared a lot with the group. I'm thinking if you do "move on" no one will even know.

But it would be hard to miss you, huh? I think you are the exact type that is making everyone crazy on this forum. Judging by your profile statistics, you must have very little to do with your life - over 2600 posts in a year - you are a stud! But you do have a cool cat avatar

 

[Cobber]

As it's in the open, here are some of the ideas being kicked around. Whether they come to fruition or not remains to be seen. I have NO votes in the decision as to what changes will be implemented:

1. E-mail verification required before registering. While someone like BPC would probably create new e-mail addresses just to post, most people wouldn't, and considering he's probably been banned over 100 times now, it would at least cut it down.

2. The first 10 posts or so from a new user would have to be verified by a mod before the person were allowed to post freely.

3. Members must use their actual name and contact information when registering, and that this information should be accessible by administrators only (not mods, and certainly not members).

Or

3b. Everyone must include their actual name in their profile, with certain individuals of fame, or in the business able to have this waived by administrators upon pro-approval, allowing them to post under a pseudonym.

Hit them where it hurts - sign up fee!

.... or at least credit card verification. It wouldn't have to be much, but enough so that people that get banned over and over again would hurt.

Of course, those of us that have been around for a while without misbehaving too much would be exempted.

 

[scribe]

But it would be hard to miss you, huh? I think you are the exact type that is making everyone crazy on this forum. Judging by your profile statistics, you must have very little to do with your life - over 2600 posts in a year - you are a stud! But you do have a cool cat avatar

Actually, I hate it that he uses that avatar.

Carry on.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Couldn't agree more - many on this forum don't let "FACTS" get in the way of their shrill, childish hatred for Armstrong/Lemond. No room for diverse opinion here - guess I should just move on and let the "experts" here continue with their gossip. What a bunch of tools.

Here she is...

 

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree more - many on this forum don't let "FACTS" get in the way of their shrill, childish hatred for Armstrong/Lemond. No room for diverse opinion here - guess I should just move on and let the "experts" here continue with their gossip. What a bunch of tools.

You are a new signup with a grand total of 2 posts.

I've stated here before... I was an uninformed Armstrong fanboy. Unfortunately for the LA fanbase, I took it upon myself to actually read the info that is out there. Cozy Beehive has a very informative blog that lays out a compelling case. Race Radio and some others really do know what they are writing about. What you call hatred is in reality a lack of patience for those who refuse to get up to speed.

I'm fairly certain the above paragraph will be lost on you, but I thought I would give it a shot.

 

[Hugh Januss]

But it would be hard to miss you, huh? I think you are the exact type that is making everyone crazy on this forum. Judging by your profile statistics, you must have very little to do with your life - over 2600 posts in a year - you are a stud! But you do have a cool cat avatar

Up to an even pair of posts now, that is excellent, good job.
Perhaps tomorrow we can work on actually contributing to a discussion on some thread here having something to do with bike racing or bike riding or even just some bike racer or bike rider.
What you want to do is try reading some of the threads (a lot of them do disintegrate into pissing matches it's true) but if you find one that interests you read it. Then try to form an opinion, preferably about what is being discussed and not about who is discussing it. Extra points for an informed opinion. Then express said opinion, in your case I'm not sure how that will go, but I wish you luck.
Quite possibly though it will go better than the approach you have taken here, which is akin to walking into a strange bar, listening for five minutes and then standing up and shouting "you guys are just a bunch of assholes" and then ordering a drink.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Actually, I hate it that he uses that avatar.

Carry on.

You don't like samurai cantaloupe cat (I think that's what it is). I think it is the coolest avatar ever. Which is why I stole it from someone else here the minute he took it down.