Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

[DFA123]

Think this one has been explained already. Nibali changed his crank lengths for the final stages last year. Which naturally gave him the extra 20+ watts to destroy Chaves and Valverde.

Following in the great Sicilian tradition of Archimedes, levers and all that. :Neutral:

 

[hrotha]

It's amazing that Nibali pulled that "handicapping yourself before the final reveal" trick straight out of an anime.

 

[Djoop]

Re:

Deleted post

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...

No, he clearly outperformed Landis on this feat. Kruijswijk crashing helped hiding the fact he made up more than 6 minutes. That his Astana teamm8s, after the 2nd rest day, were suddenly capable of dropping GC contenders. For 3 days, it was like watching US Postal all over again. The only difference is that they also attacked on the descends, and haevily fatigued GC contenders like Kruijswijk and Zakarin were more prone to crashing because of it.

Well, if SK had not crashed, we wouldn't certainly be discussing this, but one has to wonder how the hell he had the capacity to win 2/3 times to Chaves in the last 2 stages, when he was weaker than him on all the previous ones.

Exactly.

To be fair the two last Astana team mates were monster climbers

 

[staubsauger]

Chaves was always about to crack in the mountains since the rest day. It's only that Kruijswijk crashed and Nibali surpassing Chaves suddenly meant the pink jersey for him. Still suspicious of course, but normally it results in second, minutes down.

Nibali already dropped Chaves on Saturday instantly before being caught out by Kruijswijk, while Chaves recovered. On Tuesday it was Chaves on the defense all day. The surprise was that Chaves placed the original attack on Friday that originally only Kruijswijk answered. Nibali's comeback for second was to be anticipated after Aru's return from the ashes one year earlier.

 

[The Hegelian]

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Re: Re:

Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...

Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Re:

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.

Saying Astana are dirty doesn't imply Sky are clean, saying Sky are dirty doesn't imply Astana are clean. The 2015 Giro was especially preposterous though - Astana were being threatened with being thrown off the World Tour completely after the Iglinsky brothers EPO positives and the steroid positives at the associated Conti team and suddenly their entire team were ripping the field to shreds in every stage - the whole thing came off as a calculated eff you by Vino. Sky hardly come out of it well either having decided to immediately sign the most ridiculous climber in the race (although [subjective bias] one I think would outclimb Aru given a level playing field).

Let's look at the top 10s in each stage compared to Sky's highest of high points (the 2012 Tour, where they also collected a bunch of wins and high placings from having the best sprinter in the world, unlike Astana) and the race you think is the most suspicious:

Astana 2015 Giro (top 10 finishes)
Stage 1 3rd in TTT
Stage 2 10th
Stage 3 5th, 9th
Stage 4 5th, 8th
Stage 5 3rd, 6th, 7th
Stage 8 2nd, 4th, 8th
Stage 9 1st, 10th
Stage 11 6th
Stage 12 6th, 10th
Stage 14 2nd, 6th
Stage 15 1st, 4th, 8th
Stage 16 1st, 7th
Stage 19 1st, 4th, 7th
Stage 20 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th

Sky 2012 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Prologue 2nd, 5th
Stage 1 3rd
Stage 2 1st
Stage 3 2nd
Stage 4 9th
Stage 5 5th
Stage 7 1st, 3rd
Stage 8 4th, 7th
Stage 9 1st, 2nd
Stage 11 3rd, 6th
Stag 13 3rd
Stage 17 2nd, 3rd
Stage 18 3rd
Stage 19 1st, 2nd
Stage 20 1st, 9th

Sky 2016 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Stage 2 5th
Stage 5 9th
Stage 7 7th, 8th
Stage 8 1st
Stage 11 2nd
Stage 13 2nd, 7th
Stage 18 1st
Stage 19 8th, 9th

Astana had crazy strength in depth at the 2015 Giro - to be finishing 1/4/7/10 in the final mountain stage of a very tough race is insane.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.

Saying Astana are dirty doesn't imply Sky are clean, saying Sky are dirty doesn't imply Astana are clean. The 2015 Giro was especially preposterous though - Astana were being threatened with being thrown off the World Tour completely after the Iglinsky brothers EPO positives and the steroid positives at the associated Conti team and suddenly their entire team were ripping the field to shreds in every stage - the whole thing came off as a calculated eff you by Vino. Sky hardly come out of it well either having decided to immediately sign the most ridiculous climber in the race (although [subjective bias] one I think would outclimb Aru given a level playing field).

Let's look at the top 10s in each stage compared to Sky's highest of high points (the 2012 Tour, where they also collected a bunch of wins and high placings from having the best sprinter in the world, unlike Astana) and the race you think is the most suspicious:

Astana 2015 Giro (top 10 finishes)
Stage 1 3rd in TTT
Stage 2 10th
Stage 3 5th, 9th
Stage 4 5th, 8th
Stage 5 3rd, 6th, 7th
Stage 8 2nd, 4th, 8th
Stage 9 1st, 10th
Stage 11 6th
Stage 12 6th, 10th
Stage 14 2nd, 6th
Stage 15 1st, 4th, 8th
Stage 16 1st, 7th
Stage 19 1st, 4th, 7th
Stage 20 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th

Sky 2012 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Prologue 2nd, 5th
Stage 1 3rd
Stage 2 1st
Stage 3 2nd
Stage 4 9th
Stage 5 5th
Stage 7 1st, 3rd
Stage 8 4th, 7th
Stage 9 1st, 2nd
Stage 11 3rd, 6th
Stag 13 3rd
Stage 17 2nd, 3rd
Stage 18 3rd
Stage 19 1st, 2nd
Stage 20 1st, 9th

Sky 2016 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Stage 2 5th
Stage 5 9th
Stage 7 7th, 8th
Stage 8 1st
Stage 11 2nd
Stage 13 2nd, 7th
Stage 18 1st
Stage 19 8th, 9th

Astana had crazy strength in depth at the 2015 Giro - to be finishing 1/4/7/10 in the final mountain stage of a very tough race is insane.

Also, the Tour 2016 was a team of superstars.
There was the reigning LBL winner(WP), a Paris-Nice winner(GT), Runner-up of the Tour of Basque Country(SH), KOM winner of that years Giro(MN), multiple classic winners(IS, LR), the then world TT champion(VK), 2015 editions Giros 3rd place finisher(ML) and ofcourse the then 2 time TDF winner(CF).

What did Astana have?

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Re: Re:

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.

Saying Astana are dirty doesn't imply Sky are clean, saying Sky are dirty doesn't imply Astana are clean. The 2015 Giro was especially preposterous though - Astana were being threatened with being thrown off the World Tour completely after the Iglinsky brothers EPO positives and the steroid positives at the associated Conti team and suddenly their entire team were ripping the field to shreds in every stage - the whole thing came off as a calculated eff you by Vino. Sky hardly come out of it well either having decided to immediately sign the most ridiculous climber in the race (although [subjective bias] one I think would outclimb Aru given a level playing field).

Let's look at the top 10s in each stage compared to Sky's highest of high points (the 2012 Tour, where they also collected a bunch of wins and high placings from having the best sprinter in the world, unlike Astana) and the race you think is the most suspicious:

Astana 2015 Giro (top 10 finishes)
Stage 1 3rd in TTT
Stage 2 10th
Stage 3 5th, 9th
Stage 4 5th, 8th
Stage 5 3rd, 6th, 7th
Stage 8 2nd, 4th, 8th
Stage 9 1st, 10th
Stage 11 6th
Stage 12 6th, 10th
Stage 14 2nd, 6th
Stage 15 1st, 4th, 8th
Stage 16 1st, 7th
Stage 19 1st, 4th, 7th
Stage 20 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th

Sky 2012 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Prologue 2nd, 5th
Stage 1 3rd
Stage 2 1st
Stage 3 2nd
Stage 4 9th
Stage 5 5th
Stage 7 1st, 3rd
Stage 8 4th, 7th
Stage 9 1st, 2nd
Stage 11 3rd, 6th
Stag 13 3rd
Stage 17 2nd, 3rd
Stage 18 3rd
Stage 19 1st, 2nd
Stage 20 1st, 9th

Sky 2016 Tour (top 10 finishes)
Stage 2 5th
Stage 5 9th
Stage 7 7th, 8th
Stage 8 1st
Stage 11 2nd
Stage 13 2nd, 7th
Stage 18 1st
Stage 19 8th, 9th

Astana had crazy strength in depth at the 2015 Giro - to be finishing 1/4/7/10 in the final mountain stage of a very tough race is insane.

Except the level of the race wasn't very high as explained by Dr.Ferrari (VAM never higher than 1730), with only the climb of the colle delle finestre by Landa showing some exceptional power outputs. Compare that to Team Sky in 2016 TDF (one of the most ridiculous performance wise TDFin the last 16 years) who pretty much always had 4-5 riders protecting Froome on the climbs... Even Indurain and Armstrong would be alone in the final part of the final climb. They had 4-5 riders capable of holding 400+W on any climb, riders who until they joined Sky where considered mediocre (except Nieve) who could've been leaders in any other team...

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Nibali's recovery was suspicious, but ignoring the crashed Kruijswijk, he only gained around 2:30 on his rivals over 2 mountain stages. Before the 2 mountain stages:
2. Chaves -1:43
3. Valverde -1:20
4. Nibali

After the 2 stages:
1.Nibali
2.Chaves +52
3.Valverde +1:17

A part of his prior deficit was due to a mechanical in the ITT. Landis, on the other hand, came from 11th place, 5-6 minutes behind the trio of Sastre-Kloden-Evans, and gained 6-8 minutes on them in a single stage, all by himself.

 

[zlev11]

nothing recent is anywhere close to what Landis did. taking into account the way modern cycling stage races are raced it's probably the greatest ride ever.

 

[meat puppet]

As single performances go, Landis is the ***. Batshit.

Accounting for all the contextual factors, such as the sudden ability to climb without zigzagging, froome is.

 

[BullsFan22]

Well fortunately for Landis, he is out of the woods in this particular category.

 

[deValtos]

Honestly I don't anything is going to beat that Landis performance.

Only maybe if someone crushes Pantanis Alpe d'Heuz record would I have to think about it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...

Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

The Alpe wasn't in the infamous Landis stage, that was stage 15.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pulling 6,1 w/kg up Joux Plane (I doubt he did that after that performance) would be out of this world.

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Re: Re:

Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...

Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

The Alpe wasn't in the infamous Landis stage, that was stage 15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rxh-AWyVr4 you're right.

 

[Cookster15]

Astana 2015 for me. Landa's underwhelming performances since leaving Astana is also
suspect.
Also Landis 2006 raid finished over Joux Plane descending into Morzine.

 

[Djoop]

Re: Re:

Deleted post

 

[V3R1T4S]

Re: Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rxh-AWyVr4 you're right.

LMAO, 3:00 into that video they show the top-10 but also include at the bottom everyone's favorite OBE Knight, Sir BW, who is down at 127th and 2:34:14 behind. :lol:

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Re:

Astana 2015 for me. Landa's underwhelming performances since leaving Astana is also
suspect.
Also Landis 2006 raid finished over Joux Plane descending into Morzine.

Portoleau clocked him at 5.65 w/kg on the Joux Plane.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.

Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.

It doesn't follow that by asserting that X is most suspicious, Y is not suspicious.

My reason for giving the 'most' gong to Astana's Giro 2015 was because they were blowing things apart on flat stages as well as mountains. In fact, all the way through, from go to woe. They had the hammer down the whole tour. It was insane. Neither Sky, nor Banesto, nor Postal ever did that.

 

[QuickZulu]

Wout Poels in last year's TDF stuck out like a sore thumb. I couldn't believe his mountain performance.