Most Suspicious Performances: All sports edition

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

Michael Jordan once sank a free throw with his eyes closed. During the NBA playoffs. Just because he could. Nuthin' but net.


As soon as you learn what drug it was gave him that ability, you let me know. I want to buy a gallon or three.

People get tired of the dopig accusation because they take it to mean that without the drugs, they would have been nobody.

That's not always part of the observation. Froome was still a rider for sky before Vuelta 11', Ben Johnson was still pretty fast, and MJ was a good shot. Lance survived Beloki's corner with impeccable class. Friere had the perfect instinct for timing the small group sprint. Drugs can turn donkey's into racehorses, but also racehorses into faster ones.

The best athletes in the world can still be the best natural, or mindful, or tactical, or hardworking athletes, and dope too.

Alternatively, the drug you talk about would be the one to keep his motor function so well tuned after hours of practice that those free throws at the end maintained the right movement pattern. Or the drugs that helped him get the most out of the adaptation process. Or kept his fatigue low during the game that his shot wasn't affected. Or a drug program that made him so confident to want to pull a stunt.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Tiger Woods. too.

viagra?

...

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Michael Jordan once sank a free throw with his eyes closed. During the NBA playoffs. Just because he could. Nuthin' but net.


As soon as you learn what drug it was gave him that ability, you let me know. I want to buy a gallon or three.

Oh, there's no denying that Jordan was a supremely skilled athlete. He was one of a kind. If you read my post where I first mentioned him that's the first thing that I said.

What IS suspicious about him was his constant level of athleticism, energy, form and lack of injuries. In all his time with the Bulls I think he was injured 3-4 times and started all 82 regular season games 8 times, 81 once, 80 once and 78 once.

Then there is the shift in the physique and athletic ability of basketballers during his career. Look at the big names when Jordan started out - Bird, Johnson, Stockton, Drexler, Malone etc. Athletic yes, but not powerhouses like Jordan in his later years. By the end of his career everyone was much bigger and stronger, like Barkley, LeBron, Price, Curry etc. Jordan brought a lot more muscularity into the sport, that's for sure.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Greg LeMond, 1989 Tour, final stage.

Careful! You might break the forum again!

Or get banned...

Again.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Dennis Rodman.

Peds and rec drugs. Swimming in a giant cocktail of who knows what.

Put the pipe to Madonna too. That's Olson Twins legendary.

God I miss Lance Armstrong. Michael Jackson too and for the same reason.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Bolt, without a doubt.
Reason being is he absolutely smashed records made by runners who ate steroids for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
100 metres is 100 metres. There can be no talk about race distance, stage of the race, weather conditions, quality of bikes, roads, etc. etc.
Guy made Ben Johnson seem like he was running backwards.

Not particularly picking on your post but I'm new to this and, from what I've read in the clinic generally, there seems to be a wide held belief that anyone who breaks records of previous dopers must themselves be doping. Can someone please explain the logic of this to me because it completely passes me by?

Is it really scientific fact that there can be no progression in athletic achievement, that all humans in the future cannot run, ride, swim etc better than there ancestors without the use of PED's? Your example of a runner some 25 years previously to Bolt seems a strange comparison. Anything factually enlightening would be appreciated.

over the last thousands of years of human evolution, this is just a blip, and not valid nor relevant for sport performances. We have just not evolved to a material degree, over the last century. The changes have been nutrition, where now you see some demographics in the US going backwards wrt height/weight.

then there is the overweight phenom. But all these cultural/ economic cultural issues.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

What about a fast bowler who puts on over 20kg in weight from his test debut in 1993 through to 2006, he says his coach waked him to feed in the middle of the night and he has the nickname pidgeon because he had spindly legs

but he was only bowling at about 130km when he retires. And was never as big as Ambrose, who was always about 10km faster, and probably got it up to 155 at his best.

McGrath would have struggled to get it to 150. I doubt he did.

If you wanna look at doping quicks. The Australians in the last decade. Mitch Johnson and Ryan Harris especially. And Brett Lee never could have got to 160 as a 21yo without roids. And the current 24 yo from NSW who is perenially injured. See his physique as a 17yo. #NOTNORMAL.

But McGrath, it would not have surprised me if he got some help, and recovery dope, but was he made by steroids? No way. He did not need them to be great. He probably did have recovery help. But he is no Mitch Johnson, no Ryan HArris. Point the finger at those guys.

jfyi, I never like McGrath, the automaton/metronome player, it never really took my imagination. Not a fan.

I liked Dizzy Gillespie, he could get it to 150 at his quickest, and he was often too good for the batsmen, he would never find the edge. McGrath found the line, and the corridor of uncertainty, with a little seam, that was invisible to the eye watching it on tv, it had moved the 5 centimetres it needed to catch an edge, and the perfect length. But he was damn boring. Not for me.

 

[blackcat]

del1962, no way Glen McGrath put on 20kgs. 10kgs max, dripping wet.

See him without his shirt off in his final season. Still rake thin, not as bad as Rasmussen, but not much better fo' shur

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Dennis Rodman.

Peds and rec drugs. Swimming in a giant cocktail of who knows what.

Put the pipe to Madonna too. That's Olson Twins legendary.

God I miss Lance Armstrong. Michael Jackson too and for the same reason.

Helmut, your post reads like my post, please clarify. re: inscrutability

i. Dennis? the tatts, he inspired Allen Iverson, now everyone has that many, that they would not if it was just a punk 1980s thing with Black Flag and Henry Rollins and Ozzy b4 him.

obviously he would have done a heap of coke with Len Bias and Madonna and John Thompson and other 'ballers.

2. Madonna? more coke and Italian supermodels in the 80s?

3. Olson Twins? Armstrong only did one of them didnt he?

4. Michael Jackson? Nabokov. Ok, a bit younger than Nabokov, different sex too, McCaulley Culken, Home Alone indeed.


how am i doing with my PoMo reinterpretation?

 

[del1962]

Re:

del1962, no way Glen McGrath put on 20kgs. 10kgs max, dripping wet.

See him without his shirt off in his final season. Still rake thin, not as bad as Rasmussen, but not much better fo' shur

From the horses mouth http://www.theage.com.au/news/crick...-ashes-walkover/2006/08/30/1156816968172.html

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman. clearly not doping with anything that would improve his performance, but so far beyond his peers its laughable. if he came along now you would all be adamant he doped his tits off.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman.

With the one simple quality the clinic has that people like you lack.

Common sense.

clearly not doping with anything that would improve his performance, but so far beyond his peers its laughable

If Bradman was "clearly not doping with anything that would improve his performance", then his peers were also "clearly not doping with anything that would improve their performance".

So he didn't beat any dopers.

So you don't have a point. Just a stupid attempt to extrapolate conclusions from dominating in an era where hide and seek was an olympic sport, onto today's drugfest global competitions.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman.

With the one simple quality the clinic has that people like you lack.

Common sense.

the clinic has common sense? WTF are you on about? that might be the least accurate statement i've ever read, please tell me you are being facetious. whether you are a denier or a acolyte the one thing this place doesn't have is common sense. it is cloud cuckoo land.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman.

With the one simple quality the clinic has that people like you lack.

Common sense.

the clinic has common sense? WTF are you on about? that might be the least accurate statement i've ever read, please tell me you are being facetious. whether you are a denier or a acolyte the one thing this place doesn't have is common sense. it is cloud cuckoo land.

Clearly you don't believe that because you continue to post here and get very angry about it.

No one goes to assylums to insult and troll the inmates, let alone get super aggresive at hearing their crackpot theories. No sane person anyway.
Imagine a video surfaced of a visitor at one of the NHS's mental health institutes standing outside the cell of some poor deluded bearded man who thinks he's jesus, banging on the bars and shouting insults at them?
Society would be disgusted. Its not an acceptable way to behave. Nor a rational one.

No. If you thought this place was "cloud cuckoo land", you would just ignore it. And let the "crazy" people, live in happily in their own delusions.

Its just a desperate ad hominem from someone who has no arguments left to defend their emotional position of hoping their favourite athletes were clean (why is that so important to you anyway), and, in the denial stage, is taking it out on internet strangers because they worked it out before him.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman.

With the one simple quality the clinic has that people like you lack.

Common sense.

the clinic has common sense? WTF are you on about? that might be the least accurate statement i've ever read, please tell me you are being facetious. whether you are a denier or a acolyte the one thing this place doesn't have is common sense. it is cloud cuckoo land.

Clearly you don't believe that because you continue to post here and get very angry about it.

No one goes to assylums to insult and troll the inmates, let alone get super aggresive at hearing their crackpot theories. No sane person anyway.
Imagine a video surfaced of a visitor at one of the NHS's mental health institutes standing outside the cell of some poor deluded bearded man who thinks he's jesus, banging on the bars and shouting insults at them?
Society would be disgusted. Its not an acceptable way to behave. Nor a rational one.

No. If you thought this place was "cloud cuckoo land", you would just ignore it. And let the "crazy" people, live in happily in their own delusions.

Its just a desperate ad hominem from someone who has no arguments left to defend their emotional position of hoping their favourite athletes were clean (why is that so important to you anyway), and, in the denial stage, is taking it out on internet strangers because they worked it out before him.

i think you have me confused with someone else. firstly i'm definitely not angry, this place cheers me up no end. secondly, laughing at nutters on the internet is in no way similar to the scenario you described above, as you well know. finally i don't have favourite athletes, and i'm not sure that most of them are clean anyway.

 

[Cake]

Re: Re:

del1962, no way Glen McGrath put on 20kgs. 10kgs max, dripping wet.

See him without his shirt off in his final season. Still rake thin, not as bad as Rasmussen, but not much better fo' shur

From the horses mouth http://www.theage.com.au/news/crick...-ashes-walkover/2006/08/30/1156816968172.html

IMO would be surprised if fast bowlers were doping. The most likely candidates for it in cricket are late order hitters who're good at the 20 over format. Why? Follow the money. The best way to make serious cash in cricket now is to be someone who can consistently clear the ropes in a twenty20 run chase.

That's the most reliable way to look valuable to a franchise that is considering whether to hire you or not (Same equation as with power hitters in baseball in the late 90s). Even fast bowlers can get hit out of a game if an "eye" player chances his arm, but late order hitters who can reliably finish are gold dust.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Ben Johnson
Carl Lewis
Flo Jo
Indurain
Bjango Riis
Harmstrong
Landis
Boltz
Fhrooms
Miichael Johnson
Michael Phelps
Ian Thorp
The entire Women Chinese distance runners from Ma's Army (90's up until 2000 Sydney Olympics)
Crymaryonriver jones.
Eddy Hellebuyck
Leonid Shvetsov

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

Sir Donald Bradman.
Heather McKay

that's a point, how does the clinic explain bradman.

With the one simple quality the clinic has that people like you lack.

Common sense.

the clinic has common sense? WTF are you on about? that might be the least accurate statement i've ever read, please tell me you are being facetious. whether you are a denier or a acolyte the one thing this place doesn't have is common sense. it is cloud cuckoo land.

Clearly you don't believe that because you continue to post here and get very angry about it.

No one goes to assylums to insult and troll the inmates, let alone get super aggresive at hearing their crackpot theories. No sane person anyway.
Imagine a video surfaced of a visitor at one of the NHS's mental health institutes standing outside the cell of some poor deluded bearded man who thinks he's jesus, banging on the bars and shouting insults at them?
Society would be disgusted. Its not an acceptable way to behave. Nor a rational one.

No. If you thought this place was "cloud cuckoo land", you would just ignore it. And let the "crazy" people, live in happily in their own delusions.

Its just a desperate ad hominem from someone who has no arguments left to defend their emotional position of hoping their favourite athletes were clean (why is that so important to you anyway), and, in the denial stage, is taking it out on internet strangers because they worked it out before him.

Post of the year, well done.

 

[Cancelled]

Re: Re:

A lot of great calls here, but I want to throw another name up that rarely gets mentioned:

Michael Jordan.

Yes, he had phenomenal skill and vision, but his fitness, strength, lack of injury and uncanny runs of form - too good to believe IMO. During his reign the physical attributes of players changed completely. Shooting guards started bulking, forwards started becoming man mountains and centres went from lean giants to almost blotting out the sun.

definitely,

those traps and shoulders, you dont grow them merely in a gym with free weights. not with the North Carolina Tarheels body where he was lean like a 1500 metre runner. Yes, he could grow muscle, but growing significant muscle not as a full time clean bodybuilder... nope. He had to play 100 games of bball a year at his peak going to the finals in the playoffs. in cycling terms #NOTNORMAL

it was the larry johnson, anthony mason era when bodybuilders entered the sport.

then last decade, Artest/MetaWorldPeace, and the rebounding champ from Detroit, Wallace?

then the Orlando centre most recently, not Shaq, but him too. But the most recent one, who also went to LA Lakers. He followed the Shaquille peripatetic moves, Orlando to LA. What is his name? the current guy?

Then the current MVP at Cleveland out of Miami out of Cleveland originally. Tho he did lose significant weight about 24 months back. Lebron. James

oh, lets go back to the original Shaq. See is body at LSU. Lousiana State University. See his body. He was a skinny centre. OK, mebbe not as skinny as Kareem Abdul Jabaar, but he was lean.


Tiger Woods. too.

Dwight Howard. The mans shoulders look like bowling balls. He plays for the Rockets now in case you were wondering.

Honorable mention to D.Wade as well - that jaw has gotten ridiculous.

 

[velobob5411]

Usain Bolt - doing pushups after winning the 200m at 2012 London Olympics (ffwd to 0:53):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6gnaLh8StQ

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Usain Bolt - doing pushups after winning the 200m at 2012 London Olympics (ffwd to 0:53):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6gnaLh8StQ

I don't think it's suspicious that he won that race and was able to do pushups after he was done running, it's not like he ran with his arms.

Bolt's performance is suspicious for many other reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

 

[SeriousSam]

True even I could do pushups after scorching the track with my sub 13s 100m.

 

[Red Rick]

Can I add: Rafael Nadal, Aussie open 2009?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMPzc3p1H6I

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

From the horses mouth http://www.theage.com.au/news/crick...-ashes-walkover/2006/08/30/1156816968172.html

i stand corrected. thnx del1962.

this is suspicious. how tall was Mcgrath?
google tells me 196cm.

tho unlike Ryan Harris, he did not put 15km on his speed. Harris may have put 20km up.

But he bowled to 36/37? yep, in itself, suspicious, putting on the muscle weight, lifting more in the gym.