Most underrated riders

[Red Rick]

I love how something that some people in positions of power can overturn what happened on the road, within the rules.

Fair

 

[Miburo]

Re:

There was precedent. Ask Valverde.

Yes or it could be that they made that judgment cause if they suspended contador 2 more years he would have went to the echr and they would have been *** and all their bs judgments would have been done for.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How many of you think Marino Lejarreta won a GT, and how many of you don't think Marino Lejarreta won a GT?

History will decide, and when it's all dead and buried Schleck and Scarponi are the ones in the record books.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

How many of you think Marino Lejarreta won a GT, and how many of you don't think Marino Lejarreta won a GT?

History will decide, and when it's all dead and buried Schleck and Scarponi are the ones in the record books.

These days we have race footage on sites like youtube to see for ourselves what happened. Record books mean very little in that regard.

Schleck will be long forgotten when Armstrong will still be a notorious name in cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nobody has 'replaced' Armstrong in the winner's lists. Those Tours were officially won by nobody, which might cause our hypothetical future fan to investigate, more so than Schleck's or Pereiro's wins. Just because the footage is available doesn't mean everybody will watch them. There are still hundreds of bike races online I've never seen, and I'm willing to bet the majority of the people who follow the sport on a casual basis are not going to be as obsessive as me about watching the stuff they missed.

Hence the Lejarreta reference. Or to put it another way, we had that thread about least deserving GT wins recently, and we'd been through a LOT of posts before we got to the first mention of Gotti winning the '99 Giro after Pantani's DQ, and that's one of the most notorious ones in recent history.

 

[Tonton]

Please all remember this is a doping-free forum. I'm not going to delete the many posts that I should delete, just sending a reminder to all participants. Thank you...

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Nobody has 'replaced' Armstrong in the winner's lists. Those Tours were officially won by nobody, which might cause our hypothetical future fan to investigate, more so than Schleck's or Pereiro's wins. Just because the footage is available doesn't mean everybody will watch them. There are still hundreds of bike races online I've never seen, and I'm willing to bet the majority of the people who follow the sport on a casual basis are not going to be as obsessive as me about watching the stuff they missed.

Hence the Lejarreta reference. Or to put it another way, we had that thread about least deserving GT wins recently, and we'd been through a LOT of posts before we got to the first mention of Gotti winning the '99 Giro after Pantani's DQ, and that's one of the most notorious ones in recent history.

I never even heard of Lejarreta, so his win doesn't really mean much. Pereiro? The guy's not very famous, now is he?

 

[Tonton]

Now my contribution:

I saw his name once in this thread, he's the butt of every joke about not winning, yet I would so love to have his resume: Haimar Zubeldia. He has achieved so much and gets so little appreciation. He's my vote.

My favorite, Pinot, is overrated by the French, and IMO way underrated by most of the rest. The upcoming TdF will give answers, one way or the other.

Tom Boonen: I don't think that he gets enough props. We still remember the two Ricks (VS and VL): they are legends of the sport. And Boonen has done so much more, against stronger opposition, I would argue. Yet he's not the living God that he should be. I bet Echoes would like this, but it's so true: GTs have become bigger, monuments are being left behind in terms of fan appreciation. Sad. And btw the same goes for The Cance. Sorry Netserk . He's really good, and not overrated at all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I never even heard of Lejarreta, so his win doesn't really mean much. Pereiro? The guy's not very famous, now is he?

The point was that Lejarreta got his Vuelta win by default after Ángel Arroyo was penalized. The same as Pereiro did. You, as somebody who doesn't know anything about him, look back through the list of Vuelta winners and see his name and go "well, ok", but it wouldn't be any different if it was Ángel Arroyo there, you wouldn't know about the situation of how he came to get that win, and it doesn't make you think "whoa, how did that happen, better research". The same goes for Pereiro, Landis doesn't exactly have a proud history of GT results to make him any less of a surprise winner than Pereiro to somebody who's only looking at the records from the point of view in the future when the epicness of Landis' Morzine raid is but a distant memory (9th and 10th the previous year respectively).

And seriously, Lejarreta has, aside from that Vuelta win, 11 other GT top 10s (spread over all three GTs), has won stages of all 3 GTs, over the course of a decade, along with 3 wins at San Sebastián and almost every small race, both single-day and stage, in Spain. He's a much more revered figure in the history of cycling than I can ever see Michele Scarponi or Óscar Pereiro ever being, as well as plenty of other GT winners who didn't get theirs by default - Cobo, Horner, Hesjedal for starters. For somebody who posts as avidly on the sport as you to not even know the guy's name is either you being sarcastic to belittle the history of Spanish cycling, or an excellent example of exactly my point: your reaction to Lejarreta's Vuelta being brought up as an example was to say "I've never heard of that guy so I don't get your point", not to go "oh, I'm not aware of what's being referenced here, I'll go and look it up". Just because videos on youtube will show that Contador was there in the maglia rosa in the 2011 Giro does not mean that those future fans, when Contador and Scarponi are long retired, will see Scarponi in the record books and say "I don't know how that happened, I'll watch it on youtube".

 

[Tonton]

Lejaretta had a brother too, who was quite good: the Spanish Schlecks . Not underrated IMO, particularly after his ultimate wheel sucking performance, Hinault catching up the bunch at the '81 WRRC. Not a single relay. That was truly disgusting.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Now my contribution:

I saw his name once in this thread, he's the butt of every joke about not winning, yet I would so love to have his resume: Haimar Zubeldia. He has achieved so much and gets so little appreciation. He's my vote.

My favorite, Pinot, is overrated by the French, and IMO way underrated by most of the rest. The upcoming TdF will give answers, one way or the other.

Tom Boonen: I don't think that he gets enough props. We still remember the two Ricks (VS and VL): they are legends of the sport. And Boonen has done so much more, against stronger opposition, I would argue. Yet he's not the living God that he should be. I bet Echoes would like this, but it's so true: GTs have become bigger, monuments are being left behind in terms of fan appreciation. Sad. And btw the same goes for The Cance. Sorry Netserk . He's really good, and not overrated at all.

I think he gets the credit he deserves, and the truth is, he has only won 1 semi-relevant stage race, Criterium International, so he should be rated accordingly.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lejaretta had a brother too, who was quite good: the Spanish Schlecks . Not underrated IMO, particularly after his ultimate wheel sucking performance, Hinault catching up the bunch at the '81 WRRC. Not a single relay. That was truly disgusting.

I'm not saying that Lejarreta was underrated though, I'm more using the fact that the Arroyo penalty is oft-forgotten when looking back at those old Vuelta results in support of hrotha's pointing out that we can't just write people back into the results if they've been removed; posterity only preserves so much, and you can't guarantee that everything that's preserved will be taken into account by those who didn't see first hand.

 

[ciranda]

Re:

Ignatas Konovalovas, rarely talked about but really good.

Most undervalued has to be Tanel Kangert, most consistent support rider in GT mountains in the last four-five years.

edit: For the full baltic experience add Aleksejs Saramotins, each year improves a little in Paris-Roubaix.

Oh and Imanol Erviti even before his northern classics assault.

 

[Sciocco]

Is this only current riders?

Armstrong, greatest in history.

Contador
Boonen
Froome
Hilly ITTs
Luck
Flat stages
Italy's geography

 

[Tonton]

Lejaretta had a brother too, who was quite good: the Spanish Schlecks . Not underrated IMO, particularly after his ultimate wheel sucking performance, Hinault catching up the bunch at the '81 WRRC. Not a single relay. That was truly disgusting.

I'm not saying that Lejarreta was underrated though, I'm more using the fact that the Arroyo penalty is oft-forgotten when looking back at those old Vuelta results in support of hrotha's pointing out that we can't just write people back into the results if they've been removed; posterity only preserves so much, and you can't guarantee that everything that's preserved will be taken into account by those who didn't see first hand.

Completely agree. I liked Angel Arroyo back then. The Vuelta was a mess then. Cari-who-x? I'm glad that the Vuelta has come back, the schedule change was the best thing that happened and now it's as great as the Giro. That wasn't the case back then.

I hope you agree with my Zubeldia vote. The guys is being laughed at, not with hatred, but still laughed at in the cycling forums. But what a rider, what a record.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Is this only current riders?

Armstrong, greatest in history.

Contador
Boonen
Froome
Hilly ITTs
Luck
Flat stages
Italy's geography

Don't go there. Please. Thank you. Or go to the Clinic. Thank you.

 

[Red Rick]

Thing with Contador is that even without those titles he'll be surely remembered by many, and that his *wins will surely be discussed by some or discovered by new fans.

 

[jsem94]

He's one of the top 5 GT racers of all time and the best since Indurain. Of course he'll be remembered. No way he will be forgotten.

 

[gunara]

Most have been mentioned by other posters:
Paolini, Dani Navarro, Rowe, Roelandts, De Backer, Landa before last year, Navardauskas, Devenyns, Rui Costa no matter what he achieves, AG2R & Europcar domestiques, Bardiani tv exploit, Meersman, and Dani Moreno.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Most have been mentioned by other posters:
Paolini, Dani Navarro, Rowe, Roelandts, De Backer, Landa before last year, Navardauskas, Devenyns, Rui Costa no matter what he achieves, AG2R & Europcar domestiques, Bardiani tv exploit, Meersman, and Dani Moreno.

Navardauskas is a very good pick.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I never even heard of Lejarreta, so his win doesn't really mean much. Pereiro? The guy's not very famous, now is he?

The point was that Lejarreta got his Vuelta win by default after Ángel Arroyo was penalized. The same as Pereiro did. You, as somebody who doesn't know anything about him, look back through the list of Vuelta winners and see his name and go "well, ok", but it wouldn't be any different if it was Ángel Arroyo there, you wouldn't know about the situation of how he came to get that win, and it doesn't make you think "whoa, how did that happen, better research". The same goes for Pereiro, Landis doesn't exactly have a proud history of GT results to make him any less of a surprise winner than Pereiro to somebody who's only looking at the records from the point of view in the future when the epicness of Landis' Morzine raid is but a distant memory (9th and 10th the previous year respectively).

And seriously, Lejarreta has, aside from that Vuelta win, 11 other GT top 10s (spread over all three GTs), has won stages of all 3 GTs, over the course of a decade, along with 3 wins at San Sebastián and almost every small race, both single-day and stage, in Spain. He's a much more revered figure in the history of cycling than I can ever see Michele Scarponi or Óscar Pereiro ever being, as well as plenty of other GT winners who didn't get theirs by default - Cobo, Horner, Hesjedal for starters. For somebody who posts as avidly on the sport as you to not even know the guy's name is either you being sarcastic to belittle the history of Spanish cycling, or an excellent example of exactly my point: your reaction to Lejarreta's Vuelta being brought up as an example was to say "I've never heard of that guy so I don't get your point", not to go "oh, I'm not aware of what's being referenced here, I'll go and look it up". Just because videos on youtube will show that Contador was there in the maglia rosa in the 2011 Giro does not mean that those future fans, when Contador and Scarponi are long retired, will see Scarponi in the record books and say "I don't know how that happened, I'll watch it on youtube".

I heard his name a couple of times and always in relation to his Vuelta win after the winner was dqed. So it doesn't exactly proof your point at all. Lejarreta simply doesn't have the palmares to be remembered by many people so many years later.

Future fans can just click on the name of the winner (assuming they're on wikipedia) to see how he won it. "Oh, he only won because the winner was dqed at a later date? Lame!"

I think Andy said himself that he wanted to win the Tour on the road instead of in a courtroom.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

A guy like lulu is 10 times the rider Kittel ever will be but does the big public know him? Does he get paid even a fraction of what Kittle gets paid?

A way superior rider than Kittel but because he can't push those watts for 200m...

It's frustating that in cycling which is such a hard sport, such a quality as sprinting gets rewarded big time. I would have no problem with it if the rider showed other qualities and the organisers don't make it so easy for them but they do.

If Lulu had Kittel's talent, he'd be a much better cyclist.

I suggest that you go and have a look at Sanchez's palmares, it's not shabby at all.

 

[42x16ss]

Until Paris-Roubaix this year Matt Hayman was very underrated. Superb rider and mentor, shame he had to ride for Flecha for so long, he was just as good on the cobbles IMO.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I heard his name a couple of times and always in relation to his Vuelta win after the winner was dqed. So it doesn't exactly proof your point at all. Lejarreta simply doesn't have the palmares to be remembered by many people so many years later.

Future fans can just click on the name of the winner (assuming they're on wikipedia) to see how he won it. "Oh, he only won because the winner was dqed at a later date? Lame!"

I think Andy said himself that he wanted to win the Tour on the road instead of in a courtroom.

So why didn't you say that to begin with? Rather than "I've never heard of the guy" which does prove the point, say "winning that Vuelta after the DQ is the only thing I know him for", which disproves it.

But still, no mention of Ángel, if I mentioned the name Ángel Arroyo to you would you go "oh, that's the guy that won the 1982 Vuelta then got DQed"? All I'm saying is, in another 20 years when the 2006 Tour is a forgotten footnote, Floyd will be no different to Ángel, and Óscar will be lesser than Lejarreta (the rest of Marino's palmarès merits more historical remembrance than Pereiro's). Yes, if somebody clicks on the rider's name on wikipedia they can learn how they won it, but how many even would be interested enough in a long-forgotten one-time GT winner to look it up? I mean, you weren't interested enough in Lejarreta to look up his palmarès and find that he was an extremely consistent rider with a huge number of GT results including several top 5s over the course of a decade, why would our hypothetical El Pistolet of the future be any more interested in Andy Schleck or Michele Scarponi?

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Bert De Backer
Frederik Veuchelen
Johan Le Bon
Both Veltis bros
Svein Tuft