MPCC calls for teams to be punished in doping cases

[JMBeaushrimp]

Is this thread covering old ground once again ?

Just about every two years the french teams have banded together during TDF and announced they are going to act agaist doping !

Blogged about this during TDF in pau last year and suggested 4 year bans and ankle bracelets AND disqualification from working in ANY sports related occupation during their suspension !

Like the idea of the DS's being dealt with but don't think that the Sponsors should be hit as this will prevent any new sponsors coming forward because "Sh#t happens(murphy's law#1) "

Whoever thinks that getting Team Owners disqualified from the sport is on another planet but DS's that were dopers do create a credibility gap in my view .

Wonder what is going on with Voekler as he seems pretty motivated to get into the breaks in this Paris-Nice !

To deviate a bit off-topic, I have to agree. Tommy V has been a constant presence at the front end. I'm loving how he's been racing this one.

 

[hrotha]

Point#2 is silly. As someone said before, if a rider can't score any points only one or two superbig names will be signed after a suspension. If they want 4 and 6-year suspensions, that's cool with me, but it should be stated plainly.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That teams need to be punished if riders test positive

Why do you not think teams should not be punished?

And remember that it would be more the management and owners who would suffer more than the other individual riders.

Is this thread covering old ground once again ?

Just about every two years the french teams have banded together during TDF and announced they are going to act agaist doping !

Blogged about this during TDF in pau last year and suggested 4 year bans and ankle bracelets AND disqualification from working in ANY sports related occupation during their suspension !

Like the idea of the DS's being dealt with but don't think that the Sponsors should be hit as this will prevent any new sponsors coming forward because "Sh#t happens(murphy's law#1) "

Whoever thinks that getting Team Owners disqualified from the sport is on another planet but DS's that were dopers do create a credibility gap in my view.

Wonder what is going on with Voekler as he seems pretty motivated to get into the breaks in this Paris-Nice !

To the highlighted - why?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Point#2 is silly. As someone said before, if a rider can't score any points only one or two superbig names will be signed after a suspension. If they want 4 and 6-year suspensions, that's cool with me, but it should be stated plainly.

Actually, most riders wouldn't be impacted by this too much.

You don't hire a domestique because you expect him to win World Tour points. That's not what he's there for. And if you think a rider is capable of a big win, and you are willing to hire returning dopers, you'll hire him for the wins and only secondarily for the World Tour points. You might be able to get him cheaper though.

The guys who would be impacted by this in terms would be mid tier riders, the kind of support rider who would be expected to pick up decent points on the side. And it would mostly effect them in the sense that they'd be hired as pure domestiques.

 

[D-Queued]

That teams need to be punished if riders test positive

Management (and even owners) needs to bear responsibility for the actions of its employees.

Particularly when there is a concerted and continued fraud.

Doping has been coordinated, condoned and encouraged by teams since the Festina era (prior it was more of an individual-by-individual situation) with teams purchasing their own analysis equipment (hilariously pointed out by Voet as being available to loan to the UCI)

Originally managed internally, it was outsourced to organizations the likes of Fuentes.

Dave.

 

[Polish]

So Astana would be punished for Alberto's positive?

Vino would not pay the fine lol.

 

[Barrus]

Management (and even owners) needs to bear responsibility for the actions of its employees.

Particularly when there is a concerted and continued fraud.

Doping has been coordinated, condoned and encouraged by teams since the Festina era (prior it was more of an individual-by-individual situation) with teams purchasing their own analysis equipment (hilariously pointed out by Voet as being available to loan to the UCI)

Originally managed internally, it was outsourced to organizations the likes of Fuentes.

Dave.

Yes, in such a case a sanction for the team, and the individuals managing and providing medical support should be sanctioned. However, I do not believe this should the way in the case where it is the action of individual riders with any complicitness of the team, nor any knowledge of the team of this doping. This is the problem I have with the idea of punishing teams, managers and doctors that unless it is clear that they knew, helped or remained wilfully ignorant of doping you cannot enforce strict liability on them for the actions of other individuals.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes, in such a case a sanction for the team, and the individuals managing and providing medical support should be sanctioned. However, I do not believe this should the way in the case where it is the action of individual riders with any complicitness of the team, nor any knowledge of the team of this doping. This is the problem I have with the idea of punishing teams, managers and doctors that unless it is clear that they knew, helped or remained wilfully ignorant of doping you cannot enforce strict liability on them for the actions of other individuals.

If you do not make teams accountable then every rider caught will just admit that they made a small mistake and that the team had no knowledge.
(In fact I have always suspected that Thomas Frei did this for BMC and is either being paid or assured he has a spot when his suspension is up.)

The present system only punished the individual rider - when in many cases the team has been involved or negligent.

 

[D-Queued]

If you do not make teams accountable then every rider caught will just admit that they made a small mistake and that the team had no knowledge.
(In fact I have always suspected that Thomas Frei did this for BMC and is either being paid or assured he has a spot when his suspension is up.)

The present system only punished the individual rider - when in many cases the team has been involved or negligent.

Exactly.

There must be some riders who would happily not dope for a chance to ride and get paid for it.

But, if it is an implicit, welcome to the peloton job requirement, that can never happen.

Dave.

 

[Barrus]

If you do not make teams accountable then every rider caught will just admit that they made a small mistake and that the team had no knowledge.
(In fact I have always suspected that Thomas Frei did this for BMC and is either being paid or assured he has a spot when his suspension is up.)

The present system only punished the individual rider - when in many cases the team has been involved or negligent.

I totally agree with this. However the problem I have is with the possibility that the team is not involved nor neligent, to treat them in the same manner as those other teams do not aid in combatting doping. If a team takes measures against doping yet a rider does still dope, individually and on his own accord, there perhaps is a larger possibility that this rider gets a positive test, due to a less sophisticated doping regime

 

[Ferminal]

Point#2 is silly. As someone said before, if a rider can't score any points only one or two superbig names will be signed after a suspension. If they want 4 and 6-year suspensions, that's cool with me, but it should be stated plainly.

Agreed. If they want to have four year bans, just come out and do it. If they want 2 year bans with a further 2 year ban from the ProTour, get the legislation done and make it the default sanction. But don't create grey and artificial barriers (like a punishment for hiring people once their 2-4 years is up, or a "blacklist" etc) which hinder the majority from returning to the level of employment their skills warrant.

Also agree with mr. skippy that any positive or proven involvement in a doping ring should bar that individual for life from working in a team management or support role.

I'm not sure how just it would be to lay the blame of every positive on the teams. There needs to be a reward for the doper to come out and reveal the team or doctors etc, maybe then the UCI could pursue a case against them.

Of course the problem with the doper coming clean about their team is that they are going to struggle for employment post-ban, maybe this MPCC could help in that department.

 

[skippy]

One point i forgot to mention that i have blogged about is those "suspended for doping" should have to come back at 2 levels lower !
Dope in the "Protour Team" you return in the "Continental level" and are only allowed to move up annually , and better if it requires a full 12+month for the transition .
Nearly ALL Protour teams have several "doctors" so it should be possible to make "individual doctors" responsible for specific racers . Should the racer get suspended then they also will face investigation and no doubt suspension which will probably be the end of their involvement with that team .

Some well known figures have said "even bad publicity" works for them and whether they promise suspended racers a return , this will be compromised if they do not have teams in lower levels of racing for their reintegration and who is going to top up the lost salary through the suspension period and the reintegration period ?

Economically 4 years out of the racing and banned from ALL sporting involvement and 2 years progressing back through the ranks should make ANY racer quit thinking they can beat the system by using short sighted measures !

 

[ksmith]

They should also have some sort of I was a doper on their outfit.

Their proud to wear their national and W.C. shirts, piping on their sleeves and collars showing they were champions. So how about 'I'm a cheat' I.D. it also stays with them through out their career. Gives them a chance to reflect on the other 'glory'. If they don't want to wear it , quit: D

The case of riders going into a lower level of team was demolished by dear Johan when he signed Basso

Something has to be done when people like Di Luca can get a team, Atkinson can be a D.S.. I do believe the clean riders are there, they are trying but I dont envy them.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Europecar oops

http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2013-06-20-lequipe-fr.htm

 

[Fus087]

Europecar oops

http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2013-06-20-lequipe-fr.htm

That's one year old.

Apparently the suspension has been lifted again, and Europcar is back in the MPCC fold.

 

[doperhopper]

Let's vote - how long before Sky to popularizes this idea? Errr, oops, JTL.